How to Spot an Abuser on Your First Date

[tired1823]

Originally Posted by Ian

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse7.html

I mailed this around pretty heavily today. I thought it was great.

===============

Is there anything you can do to avoid abusers and narcissists to start with? Are there any warning signs, any identifying marks, rules of thumb to shield you from the harrowing and traumatic experience of an abusive relationship?

Imagine a first or second date. You can already tell if he is a would-be abuser. Here's how:

Perhaps the first telltale sign is the abuser's alloplastic defenses – his tendency to blame every mistake of his, every failure, or mishap on others, or on the world at large. Be tuned: does he assume personal responsibility? Does he admit his faults and miscalculations? Or does he keep blaming you, the cab driver, the waiter, the weather, the government, or fortune for his predicament?

Is he hypersensitive, picks up fights, feels constantly slighted, injured, and insulted? Does he rant incessantly? Does he treat animals and children impatiently or cruelly and does he express negative and aggressive emotions towards the weak, the poor, the needy, the sentimental, and the disabled? Does he confess to having a history of battering or violent offenses or behavior? Is his language vile and infused with expletives, threats, and hostility?

Next thing: is he too eager? Does he push you to marry him having dated you only twice? Is he planning on having children on your first date? Does he immediately cast you in the role of the love of his life? Is he pressing you for exclusivity, instant intimacy, almost rapes you and acts jealous when you as much as cast a glance at another male? Does he inform you that, once you get hitched, you should abandon your studies or resign your job (forgo your personal autonomy)?

Does he respect your boundaries and privacy? Does he ignore your wishes (for instance, by choosing from the menu or selecting a movie without as much as consulting you)? Does he disrespect your boundaries and treats you as an object or an instrument of gratification (materializes on your doorstep unexpectedly or calls you often prior to your date)? Does he go through your personal belongings while waiting for you to get ready?

Does he control the situation and you compulsively? Does he insist to ride in his car, holds on to the car keys, the money, the theater tickets, and even your bag? Does he disapprove if you are away for too long (for instance when you go to the powder room)? Does he interrogate you when you return ("have you seen anyone interesting") – or make lewd "jokes" and remarks? Does he hint that, in future, you would need his permission to do things – even as innocuous as meeting a friend or visiting with your family?

Does he act in a patronizing and condescending manner and criticizes you often? Does he emphasize your minutest faults (devalues you) even as he exaggerates your talents, traits, and skills (idealizes you)? Is he wildly unrealistic in his expectations from you, from himself, from the budding relationship, and from life in general?

Does he tell you constantly that you "make him feel" good? Don't be impressed. Next thing, he may tell you that you "make" him feel bad, or that you make him feel violent, or that you "provoke" him. "Look what you made me do!" is an abuser's ubiquitous catchphrase.

Does he find sadistic sex exciting? Does he have fantasies of rape or pedophilia? Is he too forceful with you in and out of the sexual intercourse? Does he like hurting you physically or finds it amusing? Does he abuse you verbally – does he curse you, demeans you, calls you ugly or inappropriately diminutive names, or persistently criticizes you? Does he then switch to being saccharine and "loving", apologizes profusely and buys you gifts?

If you have answered "yes" to any of the above – stay away! He is an abuser.

Then there is the abuser's body language. It comprises an unequivocal series of subtle – but discernible – warning signs. Pay attention to the way your date comports himself – and save yourself a lot of trouble!

This is the subject of the next article.

Continue ...

Guys.. the guy who wrote this is a creep. Watch the documentary about him on youtube. He's famous. He is not a narcissist...he is something else but thinks he is and has been accused of mindfully and perfectly presenting the website linked above like he is a narcisist, so that he can sell his book. But he doesn't care about money, he's been a millionaire and bankrupt over and over again. He has a wife who he has somehow convinced that he loves her. Hes manipulative and twisted. These signs in the article above are so right on for my situation, but I cant help but feel like I shouldnt take anything this author says to heart. He's scary...and manipulative...and doesn't care at all about his readers.

[meadd823]

Originally Posted by Alliee

Guys.. the guy who wrote this is a creep. Watch the documentary about him on youtube. He's famous. He is not a narcissist...he is something else but thinks he is and has been accused of mindfully and perfectly presenting the website linked above like he is a narcisist, so that he can sell his book. But he doesn't care about money, he's been a millionaire and bankrupt over and over again. He has a wife who he has somehow convinced that he loves her. Hes manipulative and twisted. These signs in the article above are so right on for my situation, but I cant help but feel like I shouldnt take anything this author says to heart. He's scary...and manipulative...and doesn't care at all about his readers.

You arwe redereing to SHMUEL (SAM) VAKNIN - who admits to being a narcissist.

Narcissist are scary and manipulative that is what they do - There is no one better at dealing with a predator than another predator - Who else understands a thief more than another thief?

[tired1823]

Originally Posted by RhapsodyInBlue

The "author" is a very well known narcissist, and someone who's words I would be very leary of. I believe it would take more than one or two dates to know this much about a person, and Vankin [the author] is smart enough to know this.

I am not saying there are no good points here, there are, but to make it a forum focal post is a narcissits dream. Vankin would love it!

-Viktoria

Agreed!! watch the youtube documentary on him. proffessionals don't give him much credit. Also, most authors care about the readers when they write something. He is incapable of this. I don't want to take him to heart even though he is dead on about some of the things my bf does. I don't think he is going to be helpful in the longrun somehow. It's like they always say, surround yourself with positive stuff. HOW is this man positive. Probably something bad will come out of his advice.

[IhazCHAOS]

A really good, "eye-opening" book is No Visible Wounds, Identifying Nonphysical Abuse of Women by Their Men, by Mary Susan Miller, PhD. It can help women already in a relationship realize that, no, they are not crazy, and it's not their fault. For those not in a relationship, it's a very good manual on what to look out for.

Another book I recommend is Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, by Lundy Bancroft.

Both books are available on Amazon.com.

(Sorry, guys. I know women abuse, too, but I don't know of any books on the subject.)

[tired1823]

http://mental-health-matters.com/com...le/171?start=1

20. They Make You "Crazy" "The Loser" operates in such a damaging way that you find yourself doing "crazy" things in self-defense. If "The Loser" is scheduled to arrive at 8:00 pm - you call Time & Temperature to cover the redial, check your garbage for anything that might get you in trouble, and call your family and friends to tell them not to call you that night. You warn family/friends not to bring up certain topics, avoid locations in the community where you might see co-workers or friends, and not speak to others for fear of the 20 questions. You become paranoid as well - being careful what you wear and say. Nonviolent males find themselves in physical fights with female losers. Nonviolent females find themselves yelling and screaming when they can no longer take the verbal abuse or intimidation. In emotional and physical self-defense, we behave differently and oddly. While we think we are "going crazy" - it's important to remember that there is no such thing as "normal behavior" in a combat situation. Rest assured that your behavior will return to normal if you detach from "The Loser" before permanent psychological damage is done.

[Luxie1218]

Wow, this is SO helpful. I should really just print this off and post it around my apartment, it's like I only find those types of guys.

Thank you so much for this post.

[tired1823]

yea, gosh. I wouldn't call abusive men losers anymore bc I've done research, gotten out of an abusive relationship, and now That im ok and hes still the way he is, I realize that an abusive man needs help. NOT from his gf, but from a trained professional.

You have to cut him off. Tell him to get help but don't let him back in bc he doesn't know how to treat you and will hurt you.

[Psychomaze]

One thing that I would like to mention - it may be a unique circumstance but if your date has other family members that he/she has any kind of authority of, like children/nieces/nephews, elderly family members, and pets. He/She may play a friendly and loving facade, but study the reactions and body gestures of them. Do they seem to be intimidated, hesitant, and trying to avoid him/her? Do they give these silent and stern glares at them when they think you are not looking as a way to demand control and intimidate as if they were yelling at them?

Here is my personal account (from father to daughter)

My dad gave that "glare of doom" all the time and and he even was so bold to strike my mother once... just once. While she was on crutches after a very serious knee injury and surgery (we thought that she was going to lose that leg). Long story short, he didn't expect her to fight back and in two punches, she broke his jaw and 3 ribs (she was a weekend blacksmith who took care of horses as a side gig and for the longest time, without his knowledge, and she was 5'6" while he was only 5'2" and shaped like a bowling ball).

I saw what happened, and we never had to ask why because my mom went out of her way to teach my sister and I the concept of spousal abuse, how to protect yourself, how to get over the 'Stockholm'/fear, how to escape, and ultimately, why she divorced him. Imagine trying to comprehend all that when you are only 6 years old?

Then 3 days after my 18th birthday, he tried the same thing and he swung a punch at me because I told him "NO" when he ordered me to cancel plans that I made months in advance to make me watch my half-brother again. (actually, raise him since his degenerate 3rd wife didn't want to be bothered to raise their son)

Thankfully, the man couldn't hit worth a damn and I had become taller than him like my mother (5'5"), so a simple side step to dodge, him slamming his face into the wall (bloody nose), and several insults making disturbing, sick, and lude references from the Wizard of OZ to him about his "munchkin height" and "butterball dexterity", from me ended that fight when he ordered me to get out and he didn't want to see me in *his* house ever again by morning.

But in his sick and twisted power play to force me to stay that morning, he stood over me and glared as I packed everything I could into my car, removed the license tag and canceled the insurance on it (I stumbled upon his notes and a reference number from the call). He then attempted to steal the title of the car from the folder that he thought had my important documents in it until I caught him in the act. Then he made it very clear that I would over hear him calling the police to report a "stolen" car that had no tags on it. (as for my important papers, they were in my backpack, hidden among my school books - literally in plain sight)

He also took my debt card. I somehow knew that he was going stoop that low and I already called the bank to report it stolen and to change the address on the account to a friend's house - I was disgusted to learn that I was correct in my paranoia when I read a police report of when it was used less than an hour after I drove away.

I was just lucky that I was taller and faster than him, and that my mom knew how to throw a vicious right hook. But, his second wife wasn't so lucky and he's too sick to be (or attempt to be) physically abusive to his third wife, but he sure as hell knows how to load up the emotional abuse guns but they fall upon her deaf ears. She in turn, blatantly cheats on him and calls it an 'open marriage' and stays with him now out of pity (his just deserts, I think).

It is ironic, sad, and fortunate all at the same time that I learned all this at an early age, knew how to be prepared, how to come up with an escape plan right on the spot, and that I had several friends whom I can turn to for help at a moment's notice. ... and most of all, have the kahunas to pull it off.

... Yeah, in this case it's the typical abuser male and abused female, but as I mentioned in another thread, to me abuse is abuse - gender really has nothing to do with the abuser and the abused. Hell, it doesn't even have to be spouses; it could be between parents against children (even if they never 'laid a finger on them' and it was emotional), or adult children against elderly parents, brothers and sisters, "frenemies," workers and coworkers, total strangers, anyone and everyone.

It's just the escaping and survival part that's hard to do (don't make excuses to justify their actions towards you).

[blujoc]

[quote=Psychomaze;1170482] Do they give these silent and stern glares at them when they think you are not looking ...

I'm personally familiar with a certain "Glare" made by mostly by men of Narcissistic Personality Disorder of "predatory nature". Although I did recently recall one woman I knew for many years that also would display the same precise sneer. In those experiences of mine I caught these men displaying this Glare / Sneer / Silent Mocking, when they thought I could not see them or thought I was not looking. The emotions that I still believe those in persons were feeling were a disdain for me / a how dare you... egomania / & I would in one case say that this man was displaying a true "hatred" for me because of a passing comment.

All persons in which I saw these glares I knew very well. Also each time I did eventually catch these presumed hidden glares, I was in a period of our relationship in which I was near to discovering the true nature of these persons. That is to say that they were ....are still, existing in this world with malignant narcissism, most with predatory instincts, A couple that feed off of others energy and pocket book, but also one that is a game playing sadist.

All of those I speak of had the same precise look and curve of the lips, barely open mouth maybe showing teeth of the lower jaw jutting, and low set aim of eyes with their lids almost squinting. A sneer so exact to a certain personality profile that it is obviously genetically driven when one is a Narcissist that lives as a hidden predator in higher social settings. I find it quite amazing.

All that being said, I viewed these hidden displays as a window into the true soul of these people. I view the glares as slips in the display of their facade. A brief error on their part in which the truth breaks through because the negative feelings are so strong. So enraged they can become at a slight or joke aimed even near their character that they cannot keep the fake person displayed solid. Cracks in the facade open. Then the demon beneath the skin is seen.

In the case of the woman I would actually see these displays aimed at others and not myself. I was much too young to understand and had not yet lived the many experiences I have so strongly embedded in my memory.

You mention that the look is one to gain control back over someone. Possibly as an addition to their true natures display. You bring up a good point I'd never pondered. I will do that now. I probably never pondered them using that as a way to gain control again simply because the point at which these looks were seen by me was always the point in which they permanently lost control over me. That look of theirs is a deal breaker for me. The game is seen and over. I will never trust a person again whom I see display the look I describe.

But I realize also that I am a little unique in that I have discovered how these people operate. Most others might be disturbed by such sneers and looks of hatred... but not cut off all ties which such a person. Because they would not be knowledgeable enough on personality profiles. So even though the glare doesn't work on me to regain control over me or our existing relations, it probably would work on others. Personally I find the behavior so frightening when I have seen it that I liken it to Halloween demons stares. The mania I've seen in some eyes has scared me away rather than continued to control.

NOW, I am lucky. I understand these people exist among us. I was not always educated on this topic. But I will always be about to help others that fall victim to these people. Though how many victims will ever speak up to be helped. Most will just cry alone for what seems like an eternity like I did.

I pray for those that are even now as we type, being used and/or abused by predatory narcissists male or female. I'll note here that I am Gay and the men I know are Gay. You don't hear anywhere about male on male predatory behavior. It's alive and well. But there's a new game in town now. A rising voice to bring attention to this type of abuse etc.

LOL, I did not mean to get off topic nor get maudlin. But you caught my attention tonight on the "Look" subject. I was actually just thinking of one of them earlier today. I'll never forget those brief glimpses into insanity and what I call the true Evil on Earth.

[Psyche99]

I don't know if this has already been addressed and I'm sorry if that's the case, but I find one problem in this post, he, him, etc, what about the cases when it's a her? Society now days thinks guys have to be the abuses, when in my experience with my generation (currently) 18, the girls are often just as bad as the guys you hear about.

[MX2012]

Originally Posted by driver8

After getting married, I am now just a shell of my former self. I've been stripped of my friends, family, money, self-worth, and dignity. I no longer know who I am except that I am "Mary's husband" aka "Mary's piece of meat to do whatever she pleases with". I'll give one example that just happened this morning: I came out of the shower and was freezing cold. My wife came in and removed my towel and stated "that looks just like a ***** only smaller". I asked her very nicely to give my towel back and explained that I was cold. She then called me a whimp, and then snapped the towel at me multiple times producing welts about my buttocks, laughing riotously while ingorning my plees for mercy. I ran to the room and grabbed a blanket to dry myself. When she saw me with the blanket she went ballistic and started screaming "YOU WILL CLEAN THAT BLANKET THIS MORNING OR I'LL SCRATCH YOUR EYEBALLS OUT!" Despite the fact that I was late for an important meeting, she insited that I handwash the blanket that morning. I tried to tell her that I was freezing and that I needed to cover-up and that I had asked her for the towel. She just cried and said that I was a jerk and that she was just tyring to be playful. When I asked if I could wash the blanket later this evening she simply through another tantrum and then would not allow me past her to get my clothes on. So, there I was washing a blanket in the nude just freezing like a wet dog and a sore back side. After doing all that, I was finally allowed to dress and leave for work, but not without a demand to bring home flowers or something to apologize for my behavior.

One blessing is that my wife was the one that put me on Adderall. I was resistant at first but she insisted (and that involves whole set of manipulative behavior). So, I got the pills thinking I'd never take them. But, she put them in my food. Then, I discovered that the pills were great and work for me. Over the past few weeks, I've gained more confidence and feel that I am soon ready to leave Mary. Ironic, yes?

Driver, I don't know how long you have been married. While I am suggesting you get out of that relationship ASAP -- the one who leaves the marriage first suffers more negatively legally from what I have heard.

But, for me -- I would get out of there as fast as I could. No one deserves to be treated like that!!!!

[MX2012]

Originally Posted by firstdesserts

[color=black][font=Verdana]

I could not have put this better myself. This is how it was for me. I was experiencing tremendous and sudden changes in life. I was afraid of losing control (and losing it anyway). I was afraid of losing what relationships I had left including my girlfriend (just short of a ring and date). With a screwy kind of logic I sensed her vulnerability (or my own scariness) and wanted to know if she would be able to defend herself from me (Duh! No!). With no intention of following through (I told you it was screwy!), I pressured her to (what married people do). I was aggressively insistent. I only relented after she began to sob. I think really think she was frightened. I was so relieved that she said no (I was such a jerk!) Then, in an effort to get her to punch me in the stomach (for pretending to be a jerk by being one), I slapped her face. Not hard, I thought (I had been taking karate for several months). I have no idea what was going on in her mind about what I was asking her to do. She eventually did half-heartedly slug me. Of course I apologized profusely before leaving shortly after. It was late and I had no business being out at that time of night. I have often wondered what might have been if I had just stayed home that night and went to bed early.

Fortunately, her parents forced us to separate for a couple months (permanently). Her mom said they thought we were getting too serious and their daughter needed to consentrate on finishing high school (she was 17).
Nothing was ever said about what I had done, and I was too ashamed to have the courage to bring it up, much less appologize. On top of that I was numb with fear that I may have broken the law and could be facing jail (I was 19).

Beside the regret of having lost so much, there was a gnawing feeling that lingered for decades after. I could not let her go. I thought I was just emotionally attatched to her memory in an unhealthy way. It didn't sink in until much later when I had married and my daughters had nearly grown. I finally realized something of what I had done to D. To her personally. And I never made a real effort to appologize and explain to her that it was all my fault and not hers. Only now do I imagine what I put her parents through...

I've not repeated this foray into stupidity. Looking at it now is like looking back at times when depression led to suicidal ideation. It made so much sense to me at the time. It was so real. I can't really get my brain around how anyone can be that way but I have been there.

FirstDesserts -- thank you for your story -- I can imagine how your life changed from that experience. You described a very real situation any of us could find ourselves in..

[scrambled86]

Wish I had read this when I was 17!

[mirandatoritess]

Starting fights: An abusive person always wants to bicker and start conflict with others. They always do it with applications of force such as pushing, grabbing, slapping, punching, or kicking. It excites them to see others being hurt.

2

Makes excuses to justify his behavior or actions: Instead of feeling sorry, abusers tend to use an excuse or blame for what happened. For example: “I had a rough day, so when you asked me that question, I lost my temper.” Or “It’s your fault. I wouldn’t have hit our dog if you hadn't butted in.” The abuser never holds himself accountable.

Denies every single mistake: An abuser refuses to claim responsibility for his actions. When you ask him why why he hit you or said those mean things to you, he will always say “I never did that” or “I have no idea what you’re talking about.”

4

Overly controlling: The abuser always wants things to go the way he wants them to go. Abusers are into controlling people's minds through threats and physical force. Blackmailing or threats on your life and your family's are the common tactics that are used in order to coerce you into doing something for him.

5

Controlling: Uncontrollably jealous and extreme possessiveness is another sign of an abuser. An abusive person will ask you who are you talking to, gets jealous when you spend time with your family, accuses you of flirting with others, may make repetitive calls to you when you’re inside or outside the house, and may not allow you to dress well or look good in fear that someone may find you attractive and will steal you away from him.

6

Destroying objects around you, especially those that are dear to you, is another symptom of an abuser. When in an argument, abusers tend to cause destruction such as punching the walls, throwing things, breaking plates or glasses, and disfiguring furniture. And, to really torture you some more, an abuser tends to damage your favorite things, such as breaking the necklace that your mom gave you or tearing up the painting that you love the most.

7

Transgresses boundaries by invading your personal space and treats you without respect. An abuser always gets in your way just to accomplish what he wants and always does things against your will.

8

Exhibits low self-esteem: Even if he has low confidence, the abuser tends to act as if he is powerful and strong and he expresses it by belittling and degrading everyone else in order to elevate himself.

9

Unable to identify and express emotions in the right way and shows it by displacing anger on you even if he is angry with somebody else. An abuser's temper is beyond control. A quick burst of rage is exhibited when anything sets him off, even if it's a simple frustration or annoyance.

10

Appears nice to other people but not to you. An abusive person may act as a good friend to his colleagues at work but when at home, his/ behavior turns the opposite way. This is one of the reasons why some people can not detect the signs of abuse.

11

Too dependent on his physical and emotional needs. An abuser always tells you that he needs you all the way. But having said this it means that you have to live up to his criteria of being the person that he wants you to be.

12

Lies to you constantly and plays with your emotions in any way possible such as calling you names, degrading your being, ignoring your emotions, depreciating your achievements, insults you in front of others and poisons your mind with constant bad-mouthing and threats.

13

Isolates you from others in order to have you all to himself. An abuser may isolate you from your family and friends by not letting you use the phone.

14

Showing no respect to other people and is cruel to animals. May show no respect to elders, hurts children, and exhibits great annoyance to animals by torturing them.

15

Makes sexual advances or forces you to have sex even if you’re not feeling well. He may want you to watch pornographic videos or magazines and wants you to be involved with all his wild fantasies even against your will.

16

Displays great fascination on anything that has to do with violence and shows it by playing and threatening you with guns or knives, listening to hateful music, and watching overly violent shows.

17

Admits to hurting and attacking someone in the past but blames that person for making him do it.

18

Uses drugs and alcohol uncontrollably without ever listening to your complains. And, even if you do complain about it, all you get are insults and beatings for getting in his way.

[midnightstar]

Originally Posted by mirandatoritess

S
6

Destroying objects around you, especially those that are dear to you, is another symptom of an abuser. When in an argument, abusers tend to cause destruction such as punching the walls, throwing things, breaking plates or glasses, and disfiguring furniture. And, to really torture you some more, an abuser tends to damage your favorite things, such as breaking the necklace that your mom gave you or tearing up the painting that you love the most.


15

Makes sexual advances or forces you to have sex even if you’re not feeling well. He may want you to watch pornographic videos or magazines and wants you to be involved with all his wild fantasies even against your will.

These two describe my ex completely, plus when we split up he wouldn't leave me or my family alone for several months (he kept phoning up and emailing us and acted like a pain in the butt)