interesting article

[PookDo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/ma...pagewanted=all

[Slo-mo a-go-go]

I have the open source dual-n-back installed on my laptop.

Have I seen working memory improvements? Yes, in a round-about way.

What it did improve was my stress level. How? In moments that I get suddenly overwhelmed and frustrated by what my mind is trying to juggle, (a little thing like getting an envelope ready to mail & in my hand to walk out the door to mail, it was too difficult), my brain would "burn out" and------phooey, gotta go-finish later

[Drewbacca]

I didn't get much out of the article. I do believe that conditioning gives better results. I'm really good at mental math, for example, despite a terrible working memory. The reason for this is that I always hated carrying around a calculator and I bought a few books in order to learn tricks to do math in my head. I don't think that anything can make you "smarter" per se. Practice certainly makes just about anyone more productive and knowledgeable.

[JOHNCG]

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

I didn't get much out of the article. I do believe that conditioning gives better results. I'm really good at mental math, for example, despite a terrible working memory. The reason for this is that I always hated carrying around a calculator and I bought a few books in order to learn tricks to do math in my head. I don't think that anything can make you "smarter" per se. Practice certainly makes just about anyone more productive and knowledgeable.

Drew,

I'm sorry to have to tell you that if you've got impaired working memory due to ADHD, then you will not be any good at mental arithmetic, and there's nothing that you will be able to do about that- no tricks you can learn or books you can read that will get you around the problem.

[TygerSan]

I'm sorry to have to tell you that if you've got impaired working memory due to ADHD, then you will not be any good at mental arithmetic, and there's nothing that you will be able to do about that- no tricks you can learn or books you can read that will get you around the problem.

True to a point . . . my working memory is so bad that doing the exercises like the N-back tasks is just an exercise in frustration. . .

The tricks for adding, etc, though, can vastly reduce mental load when calculating, so if you can remember the tricks, you can probably improve your ability to calculate despite a working memory deficit.

[Lunacie]

Originally Posted by JOHNCG

Drew,

I'm sorry to have to tell you that if you've got impaired working memory due to ADHD, then you will not be any good at mental arithmetic, and there's nothing that you will be able to do about that- no tricks you can learn or books you can read that will get you around the problem.

Not true.


I was 19 when some wiring in my brain finally connected and I could do some simple mental math.


I still don't understand algebra and probably won't ever understand it.


But fractions and percentages finally clicked for me.


My adult daughter (not diagnosed with ADHD) still can't do fractions - in her head or on paper.

She was probably 30 before she understood what percent of the bill to leave as a tip for the waiter.

[Amtram]

I'm not so sure about that, JOHNCG. If you think about how hyperfocus works for some of us, or how we are constantly forced to devise strategies to compensate, it's possible that for individual isolated tasks this might work for a particular person with ADHD. It could have to do with an interest, or it could be that you somehow manage to connect it in a way that works to trigger the needed memory.

It's probably something too specific to the individual to actually do a large-scale study, but I know a lot of us have some pretty off-the-wall mnemonics that work for single tasks.

Another possibility, completely speculation on my part, would be that it might be a sort of ADHD savant syndrome, in which the communication used to perform an isolated task could partially or completely bypass the parietal lobe, lowering the memory/performance inhibition for just that one thing. Again, not practical to test. A very expensive fMRI would be able to show the signalling while the individual was performing the task, and possibly only that task and no other.

[Drewbacca]

There are many possible explanations... who knows.

Keep in mind that "working memory" is a model and not really a clearly defined biological condition. Our ability to define it is only as good as our ability to box a group of people with a similar condition. Perhaps I have something other than ADHD. Perhaps I have a variation of ADHD. Perhaps I suck at mental math and haven't realized it yet. Perhaps a similar deficiency affects us differently.

I can't say that the books and tricks helped me versus having an innate ability, since there is no "control."

Anyways, I do have terrible working memory in most of the normal and expected ways. I'm particularly deficient with verbal working memory. To better define where I excel and where I'm deficient would take additional testing. I'm actually waiting on feedback from a neuropsych now and I'll be sure to share any enlightening feedback that I'm given.

[JamalJ]

There's more to intelligence than that. Think about emotional intelligence as well as social intelligence.

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by JamalJ

There's more to intelligence than that. Think about emotional intelligence as well as social intelligence.

No one is going to deny that there are multiple measures of intelligence, but that's besides the point, don't you think?