What exactly does "impairment" mean in ADHD ??

[ginniebean]

You can't measure potential. Potentially I could be a theoretical physicist.

[K-Funk]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

You can't measure potential. Potentially I could be a theoretical physicist.

In theory

[mctavish23]

Or theoretically a potential physicist, or perhaps even a physical psychic

(whatever tf that is).

It could happen

u r welcome

[Peripheral]

Genetic (heredity),

epigenetic(heredity and stress),

and environment (Stress).


Are all possibilities,

that could partly be involved,

in the disruption of the development of neurological circuitry,

resulting in the ADHD impairment.

*Gabor Mate M.D., "Scattered", p 25.

** Gabor Mate M.D., "In The Realm Of Hungry Ghost", p 184.

***Gabor Mate M.D., "In The Realm Of Hungry Ghost", p 206.

Development occurs in stages through out life.


All though the number of dopamine receptors,

are mostly determined in utero.


The completion of the development of dopamine receptors and other circuitry,

required for proper emotional self regulation ,

are use dependent.

And finish developing while interacting with the emotional environment.

(especially during the last trimester and the first three to seven years of life.)


Implicit neurological brain development occurs before the age of three.

During the critical time of brain development.

When the brain systems are completing development for the very first time,


Through a process some people call "Neural Pruning".

With the right stimuli,

some infants brain can develop almost twice as many synapses as they need.


In a "Use it or lose it" fashion.


"Used" brain areas develop and mature.


"Unused" brain areas atrophy and are "pruned".


Sometimes things like anxiety and depression,

unavoidable stresses,

that occur for many different reasons,

experienced by parenting adults,

can interfere with normal development of a sensitive infants brain.


Both before and after birth.


Some people have stronger inherited genetic predisposition,

some people have stronger epigenetic factors,

and some people have experienced stronger environmental factors,

making one or all can make ADHD more likely.



Factors resulting in a infant who is more emotionally sensitive,

can result in an infant,

who will more likely emotionally over react.


Worsening the impairment.


Some infants development can become emotional "stuck" at the time of emotional stress occurs,

hindering emotional development of emotional systems.

Depending on the level of emotional stress.




What would be "normal" stressful experiences for an infant with a sensitive nature,

may be an "abnormally" high stressful experiences for a infant with overly sensitive nature.(temperament)


In regards to prevention and treatment.

All infant children would benefit from parents being aware,

that infants have different sensitive natures,

during early development.

Impairment or no impairment.

[Assumption]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

You can't measure potential. Potentially I could be a theoretical physicist.

Respectfully, I disagree.

My father is a theoretical physicist/mathematician. He made a groundbreaking discovery several decades ago, and then sat on it. His colleagues were citing this discovery, that had never been published, for months. But he just didn't get around to publishing it. Eventually his colleagues INSISTED that he publish it (which he did, eventually).

If he had never gotten round to publishing the results and had ended up changing careers? That would be a clear case of wasted potential. Quite a different thing to the other sense of "wasted potential", whereby anybody could be a theoretical physicist.

Why can't you measure potential? Surely you could give somebody an aptitude test. If you wanted to see if they were "living up to their potential", you could measure their current place in life, and calculate some sort of index. It wouldn't be a "perfect measure", but such a thing is generally a will-o-the-wisps in the social sciences - it doesn't exist in reality. We are always measuring proxies for the latent constructs we're trying to tap into. Philosophers will tell you that that's the case with pretty much everything - we simply don't "directly" perceive reality. So by an (unreasonably) strict definition of "measure", we cannot "measure" anything.

Anyway, just my 2c.

[ginniebean]

Originally Posted by K-Funk

In theory

Well yeah.. but the things I could do with a hadron collider... scary.. oops!

[Peripheral]

Originally Posted by Sylvie

Respectfully, I disagree.

My father is a theoretical physicist/mathematician. He made a groundbreaking discovery several decades ago, and then sat on it. His colleagues were citing this discovery, that had never been published, for months. But he just didn't get around to publishing it. Eventually his colleagues INSISTED that he publish it (which he did, eventually).

If he had never gotten round to publishing the results and had ended up changing careers? That would be a clear case of wasted potential. Quite a different thing to the other sense of "wasted potential", whereby anybody could be a theoretical physicist.

Why can't you measure potential? Surely you could give somebody an aptitude test. If you wanted to see if they were "living up to their potential", you could measure their current place in life, and calculate some sort of index. It wouldn't be a "perfect measure", but such a thing is generally a will-o-the-wisps in the social sciences - it doesn't exist in reality. We are always measuring proxies for the latent constructs we're trying to tap into. Philosophers will tell you that that's the case with pretty much everything - we simply don't "directly" perceive reality. So by an (unreasonably) strict definition of "measure", we cannot "measure" anything.

Anyway, just my 2c.

I think life circumstances preceed potential.

[Retromancer]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

Well yeah.. but the things I could do with a hadron collider... scary.. oops!

*****

[Assumption]

Originally Posted by Geronimoo Back-Y-Rita

I think life circumstances preceed potential.

Sorry but I don't follow.

[Peripheral]

Originally Posted by Sylvie

Sorry but I don't follow.

Edit Correction:

...Genes carry potential inherent in the cells of a given organism.

Which of multiple potentials becomes expressed biologically is a question of life circumstances.

Were we to adopt the medical model-

-only temporarily,

for the sake of argument-

-a genetic explanation by itself would still be unsuitable.

Medical conditions for which genetic inheritance are fully or even mostly responsible,

such as muscular dystrophy,

are rare...

...Hunting's is a fatal degeneration of the nervous system based on a single gene that,

if inherited,

will almost invariably cause the disease.

But not always.

Dr.Hayden mentions cases of persons with the gene who live into ripe old age without any signs of the disease itself.

"Few diseases are purely genetic,"(*)


"The most we can say is that some diseases are strongly genetic"(**)


"Even in Huntingtons's, there must be some protective factor in the environment," (***)


(*)(**)(***)-Dr.Micheal Hayden, geneticist at the University of British Columbia and world-renowned researcher into Huntington's disease.

-Gabor Mate M.D., "Scattered", p 49

[Assumption]

Ah, so you're saying that "potential" is the same thing as genotype? I wouldn't define potential that way, personally. I'd say if you've a very mathematical mind, have a strong inclination towards physics, and still fail to establish a a career in theoretical physics due to motivational issues, then it's pretty clear cut: you're not living up to your potential.

That's leaving genes aside completely.

[Fortune]

I have been told I am a musical genius. I am actually capable of learning the basics of playing an instrument very quickly. However, I find it very difficult to learn beyond that with or without help, and I find it extremely difficult to sustain a regular practice schedule.

I have been told I am an excellent writer. I have written a 50,000 word book over a one-week period that, with a single draft and minor corrections, was seen as fairly good. When a new book came out last year that would draw upon older material in that line of books, people made sure to request that my material was not forgotten. But, most of the time, I can barely manage 100-200 words of fiction or other directed material. So I have all kinds of projects I've started, but very very few that ever reached completion.

I am supposedly a genius in terms of IQ - 3+ standard deviations above typical IQ, and yet academically I was lucky to get Cs.

I studied a martial art for a month, and the instructor was impressed with how quickly I could pick up the basics of a few moves, but then after taking a two week break I lost interest and could not get the motivation going to return. I found out that most of the class wondered what became of me a few years later, when someone saw me wearing the t-shirt with the instructor's name on it and we talked about it.

I don't really think I am meeting my potential spending 1/2 the day flipping around through a dozen internet forums looking for stimulation in discussion of the ideas that interest me most intensely. Nor from playing video games. But I tend to take the path of least resistance and essentially get very little done. I try to go beyond that but most efforts to do so and sustain it ended up in crashing and burning.

The above isn't meant to brag: If anything, I am rather bitter about a lot of these things, and they're a significant part of my depression. I don't spend nearly as much time obsessing over this stuff as I used to, now that I know why things turned out the way I did. But I feel like my potential is relatively meaningless as I am not able to do much with it without a lot of support that I do not have.

[Peripheral]

Originally Posted by Sylvie

Ah, so you're saying that "potential" is the same thing as genotype? I wouldn't define potential that way, personally. I'd say if you've a very mathematical mind, have a strong inclination towards physics, and still fail to establish a a career in theoretical physics due to motivational issues, then it's pretty clear cut: you're not living up to your potential.

That's leaving genes aside completely.

In my opinion,

The motivational issues due to ADHD,

do have genetic components.

That being said.

Life circumstances are the decisive factors "in picking" what potentials are expressed,

resulting in motivation and reward issues.(or not)

Motivational impairments that interfere with potential(s),

are not the fault of the individual.

Potentials in regards to ADHD are expressed in early life,

and are not decided by the person with the impairment.

The person is living their expressed potentials.

I might not be explaining well and don't mind people asking for clairification or expressing criticism.

Appreciate the conversation.

[fracturedstory]

Originally Posted by Fortune

I have been told I am a musical genius. I am actually capable of learning the basics of playing an instrument very quickly. However, I find it very difficult to learn beyond that with or without help, and I find it extremely difficult to sustain a regular practice schedule.

I have been told I am an excellent writer. I have written a 50,000 word book over a one-week period that, with a single draft and minor corrections, was seen as fairly good. When a new book came out last year that would draw upon older material in that line of books, people made sure to request that my material was not forgotten. But, most of the time, I can barely manage 100-200 words of fiction or other directed material. So I have all kinds of projects I've started, but very very few that ever reached completion.

I am supposedly a genius in terms of IQ - 3+ standard deviations above typical IQ, and yet academically I was lucky to get Cs.

I studied a martial art for a month, and the instructor was impressed with how quickly I could pick up the basics of a few moves, but then after taking a two week break I lost interest and could not get the motivation going to return. I found out that most of the class wondered what became of me a few years later, when someone saw me wearing the t-shirt with the instructor's name on it and we talked about it.

I don't really think I am meeting my potential spending 1/2 the day flipping around through a dozen internet forums looking for stimulation in discussion of the ideas that interest me most intensely. Nor from playing video games. But I tend to take the path of least resistance and essentially get very little done. I try to go beyond that but most efforts to do so and sustain it ended up in crashing and burning.

The above isn't meant to brag: If anything, I am rather bitter about a lot of these things, and they're a significant part of my depression. I don't spend nearly as much time obsessing over this stuff as I used to, now that I know why things turned out the way I did. But I feel like my potential is relatively meaningless as I am not able to do much with it without a lot of support that I do not have.

I would like your musical ability and ability for writing a 50,000 worded book in a week. Me, I get maybe 1000-2000 words done a day but can barely last 5 days. If I want to learn to play an instrument I need twice my average Ritalin dosage, flash cards, diagrams and the patience to listen to my instructor.

I suppose I keep going back to the book. But it's taking so long. Not quite two years yet.

I'm a pretty good artist, can pick up on new skills quickly. I hardly need a tutorial. It's all trial and error with me. But I need to have motivation to do that. Usually I need to be incapable of writing to give myself some time to do my art. It has to be for a practical reason too.
I get told I should go to an art college but it's not something I want to pursue. I do it because I can, like photography.

[Peripheral]

Originally Posted by Fortune

I have been told I am a musical genius. I am actually capable of learning the basics of playing an instrument very quickly. However, I find it very difficult to learn beyond that with or without help, and I find it extremely difficult to sustain a regular practice schedule.

I have been told I am an excellent writer. I have written a 50,000 word book over a one-week period that, with a single draft and minor corrections, was seen as fairly good. When a new book came out last year that would draw upon older material in that line of books, people made sure to request that my material was not forgotten. But, most of the time, I can barely manage 100-200 words of fiction or other directed material. So I have all kinds of projects I've started, but very very few that ever reached completion.

I am supposedly a genius in terms of IQ - 3+ standard deviations above typical IQ, and yet academically I was lucky to get Cs.

I studied a martial art for a month, and the instructor was impressed with how quickly I could pick up the basics of a few moves, but then after taking a two week break I lost interest and could not get the motivation going to return. I found out that most of the class wondered what became of me a few years later, when someone saw me wearing the t-shirt with the instructor's name on it and we talked about it.

I don't really think I am meeting my potential spending 1/2 the day flipping around through a dozen internet forums looking for stimulation in discussion of the ideas that interest me most intensely. Nor from playing video games. But I tend to take the path of least resistance and essentially get very little done. I try to go beyond that but most efforts to do so and sustain it ended up in crashing and burning.

The above isn't meant to brag: If anything, I am rather bitter about a lot of these things, and they're a significant part of my depression. I don't spend nearly as much time obsessing over this stuff as I used to, now that I know why things turned out the way I did. But I feel like my potential is relatively meaningless as I am not able to do much with it without a lot of support that I do not have.

I think I agree with you Fortune.

People with ADHD are intelligent,

but emotional, motivation and reward circuitry, etc,

are impaired resulting in not being able to follow though properly,

to use the intelligence.

This is why I think emotional intelligence preceeds intellectual intelligence.

Lack of emotional regulation interfers with ability to use the intelligence.

It's not even like we are not motivated,

sometimes I try harder than anyone I know,

on some topics,

it is that the motivation circuitry that is impaired.

The self regulation of motivation and reward is impaired.


And tomorrow I might be motivated by a totally different topic,

try harder on a totally different topic.

Staying on topic is a huge problem for me.

Sometimes I feel like a slightly different person.