Key differences between PI and SCT?

[Verile]

Originally Posted by ana futura

It does sound like you might have depression- depression doesn't have to be "I hate myself and want to die". It can just be not getting joy from life. I'm depressed I guess, but I was really in denial for a long time. I feel like I simply can't be bothered to try. I dislike "sad" people, so it was hard for me to think of myself as depressed. I can see it a little better now.

I've considered it rather heavily. Of course the therapists and doctors at the PHP all told me I was severely depressed. I realize depression and dysthymia is more than just being sad. But I don't think I fit the criteria. I'm don't have any sense of hopelessness or helplessness. Rather the opposite I'm doing all I can, even if it isn't much. I'm definitely not sad. Really compared to the average person I don't feel much emotion. I don't get attached to people, I don't get angry even when it's justified, I'm very patient and can wait comfortably for long periods of time. I don't get lonely. I'm just a very passive, low key guy. The only thing I really feel is frustration with this problem I have that seems to have no solution.

I guess I could be in denial but really I just don't see it. I definitely don't want it to be depression though because I don't think anti-depressants will help me any more than amphetamines do. Once I've exhausted all other avenues I'll consider the possibility of denial more seriously.

[Verile]

Originally Posted by ana futura

I though 40mg vyvanse= 20mg dex.

Lysdex has a conversion rate of about 30% so every 10 mg of Vyvanse is effectively 3 mg mf dex.

I get no academic help from meds at all, sometimes they make it worse. The main things I notice are reduced anxiety, increased self awareness, and I notice a buffer of space between thought and action. Instead of calling my partner retarded, I realize that what I'm about to say might be hurtful, and I don't do it.

As far as being productive or accomplishing anything? No, meds actually make me more likely to sit on the couch and waste all day on the internet. They make me feel lobotomized sometimes, even on the right dose. It's a pleasant sort of lobotomy though...

Sometimes my blood pressure is actually lower on them. I can even raise and lower my heart rate at will on meds- just by thinking about it. I've done it with a pulse monitor, I can get a 30 point variation. I also get the muscle cramps, that part sucks.

That's really interesting. I'm never gotten the "Zombie" mode myself. I'm less likely to sit on the internet all day on meds because the meds make it uncomfortable to keep my muscles static for too long. It doesn't affect my mood or self-awareness much at all. Though that could be because I'm already keenly self-aware.

I know most ADHD perform better in school with amphs. I wonder what makes you different? Or maybe more appropriately, what causes the spectrum in ADHD for levels of impulsiveness and hyperactivity. You mentioned depression before. Could be the comorbidities I imagine.

[Verile]

Originally Posted by ana futura

Really interesting articles here, especially the first one-

http://www.primarilyinattentiveadd.c...blems-and.html

That 1st article is a great lay explanation of what's going on. They really clarify where ADHD and SCT overlaps and where it doesn't for people who don't get it. I'm also glad to see it's not just me who has trouble getting to sleep but can sleep like the dead once he's down.

I saw that study the 2nd article is referring to and I have to agree with it anecdotally if only from my own experience. I can't seriously believe I'm depressed or anxious. To think there are people out there who are exactly like me in so many regards gives a lot of credence to SCT being it's own disorder for me.

The 3rd article writer clearly didn't understand what she was reading.

[Verile]

Originally Posted by ana futura

I'm depressed I guess, but I was really in denial for a long time. I feel like I simply can't be bothered to try. I dislike "sad" people, so it was hard for me to think of myself as depressed. I can see it a little better now.

See, the bold is where we really diverge. I don't feel that way. I want nothing more than to try but it feels impossibly hard. Despite this, I keep trying. I think the depression symptom you're describing there is called helplessness.

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by Verile

I know most ADHD perform better in school with amphs. I wonder what makes you different? Or maybe more appropriately, what causes the spectrum in ADHD for levels of impulsiveness and hyperactivity. You mentioned depression before. Could be the comorbidities I imagine.

Pills don't teach skills!

It's because I'm a lazy jerk and I don't give a crap. I don't care about success, and I think my partner will still support my lazy butt even if I fail out of grad school. Meds do help me pay attention to lectures, and I've always struggled with that, but that's it. Homework they do nothing for, because I have always hated homework. Too many distractions at home, and doing it is boring. In class I'm usually fine without meds, except for really long lectures.

This "I don't give a crap" attitude seem very ODD to me. I'm not diagnosed with it, but I'm sure I could be, as my frequent rages where one of the things that got me diagnosed with ADHD.

I'm chilling out as I age, but it's interesting, it does seem that where we diverge is more about the ODD than anything else. I will have to go back and watch that Barkley video Ginnie posted on ODD/ non ODD ADHD again.

I think my ODD traits also color my depression. EFF YOU I'm sitting on the damn couch, get off my case!

I also have that sleep issue, trouble going to bed before 3, trouble waking up before noon. I've always slept like the dead once I finally konk out.

I'm gonna guess that you really do have ADHD, but you have something else (sct? depression? allergies?) slowing you down and hampering your impulsivity, and you're not the ODD type ADHD. Other than that, everything seems the same. From what you say though, I really don't think you have "just SCT"

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by ana futura

Pills don't teach skills!

Homework they do nothing for, because I have always hated homework. Too many distractions at home, and doing it is boring. In class I'm usually fine without meds, except for really long lectures.

While pills don't create motivation, they do enable follow through by increasing efficiency of studies and reducing the time required to complete homework. They do help with homework, so long as you want to complete your homework.

Whereas your attitude is I can't be bothered because it requires effort and I don't feel like it, my attitude is I can't be bothered to work on this because the environment isn't adequate for studying; the amphetamines help to make the environment more productive by eliminating some of the distraction... but they only help to a point. I still need to wear headphones and listen to white-noise most of the time.

I like doing work. My problem is not impulsively studying something else that is more interesting at the time. There will ALWAYS be something more interesting than what I am supposed to be doing. LOL

[ana futura]

I'm so curious about this difference in our attitudes towards work. It's likely that my attitude is a learned behavior, but what if it's genetic as well? My dad was the exact same way as me, and I don't think it was 100% learned for either of us.

Lazy + ADHD = not good

I do think that if I committed to meds my attitude towards work would improve. After a week I see them begin to alter my attitudes. Then of course I panic, because I'm becoming something that's "not me!" and I stop taking them. So I know the laziness is related to living so long undiagnosed, but getting rid of it is SO HARD.

It's probably the ODD traits coming into play. You seem to mention far less ODD traits than I do Drew, and I notice more behavior modification on meds than you.

[Verile]

Originally Posted by ana futura

Pills don't teach skills!

It's because I'm a lazy jerk and I don't give a crap. I don't care about success, and I think my partner will still support my lazy butt even if I fail out of grad school.

They don't but they certainly curb the neurochemical issues that make school harder for ADHD children. You can be on meds and still not want to do school.

Do you really think you're a lazy jerk that doesn't give a crap about doing better in life? It's not something you convinced yourself of after a lifetime of not meeting your own expectations and failures?

After a week I see them begin to alter my attitudes. Then of course I panic, because I'm becoming something that's "not me!" and I stop taking them.

I'd try thinking of it as being the meds are helping you be the person you were meant to be (want to be?) instead of something that's not me.

I'm gonna guess that you really do have ADHD, but you have something else (sct? depression? allergies?) slowing you down and hampering your impulsivity, and you're not the ODD type ADHD. Other than that, everything seems the same. From what you say though, I really don't think you have "just SCT"

I'm not sure what gives you this impression. The ADHD symptoms don't fit me and the SCT do.

[plank80]

Originally Posted by ana futura

Pills don't teach skills!

It's because I'm a lazy jerk and I don't give a crap. I don't care about success, and I think my partner will still support my lazy butt even if I fail out of grad school. Meds do help me pay attention to lectures, and I've always struggled with that, but that's it. Homework they do nothing for, because I have always hated homework. Too many distractions at home, and doing it is boring. In class I'm usually fine without meds, except for really long lectures.

This "I don't give a crap" attitude seem very ODD to me. I'm not diagnosed with it, but I'm sure I could be, as my frequent rages where one of the things that got me diagnosed with ADHD.

I'm chilling out as I age, but it's interesting, it does seem that where we diverge is more about the ODD than anything else. I will have to go back and watch that Barkley video Ginnie posted on ODD/ non ODD ADHD again.

I think my ODD traits also color my depression. EFF YOU I'm sitting on the damn couch, get off my case!

I also have that sleep issue, trouble going to bed before 3, trouble waking up before noon. I've always slept like the dead once I finally konk out.

I'm gonna guess that you really do have ADHD, but you have something else (sct? depression? allergies?) slowing you down and hampering your impulsivity, and you're not the ODD type ADHD. Other than that, everything seems the same. From what you say though, I really don't think you have "just SCT"

ODD is what kids are diagnosed with, in adults its a personality disorder.

[Drewbacca]

ana futura, it has nothing to do with the relative ODD characteristics between us... While I don't mention them, many a teacher remembers my name for the wrong reasons, as do my hometown police, the clergy at my parent's church, and anyone else who was unlucky enough to have me as their responsibility for more than an hour. The number of detentions that I had tells its own story.

[Peripheral]

Is SCT what some people call "genetic"?

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

ana futura, it has nothing to do with the relative ODD characteristics between us... While I don't mention them, many a teacher remembers my name for the wrong reasons, as do my hometown police, the clergy at my parent's church, and anyone else who was unlucky enough to have me as their responsibility for more than an hour. The number of detentions that I had tells its own story.

Then why oh why do I hate work so much? Did I just miss out on the capitalism indoctrination day in school?

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by plank80

ODD is what kids are diagnosed with, in adults its a personality disorder.

Awesome, yay me. The oppositional behaviors I display are very mild, but I have also worked very hard to control them.

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by Geronimoo Back-Y-Rita

Is SCT what some people call "genetic"?

No. It's just a possible disorder that is different from ADHD. Or, it may not exist at all. Either way, it may or may not be genetic.

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

ana futura, it has nothing to do with the relative ODD characteristics between us... While I don't mention them, many a teacher remembers my name for the wrong reasons, as do my hometown police, the clergy at my parent's church, and anyone else who was unlucky enough to have me as their responsibility for more than an hour. The number of detentions that I had tells its own story.

I think I'm blending IED with ODD too much. You don't change into the incredible hulk like me, right? Adult tantrums?