ADHD and reading

[LordranBound]

Originally Posted by zoomman

I've always read. I didn't realize how much re-reading I've been doing my whole life, though, until I saw this:
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Wow zoomman, that picture is phenominal...

[Assumption]

Ooh, the first thing we really, truly disagree about.

I've read part of madness and civilization. It made me very angry. I got a few chapters through it and was like "OMG. What is this s...?" True, it could be in part due to the translation, but I doubt it. The whole concept of "making an explicit argument" seems to elude Foucault.

The thing that I find hard to reconcile, ana, is that your posts are so lucid and thoughtful. You seem to be committed to the notion of an objective truth, and the possibility of epistemic practices that help us come to apprehend it. Radical postmodernism denies objective truth in a metaphysical sense - it is an anti realist position. For example, social constructionists (which is a postmodernist doctrine) have claimed that objective reality doesn't exist outside of society. It is a social construction. When you take it in the strong sense that it is sometimes intended, it's absurd (and I can't see how anybody who truly believed that would bother thinking or doing anything). Of course, when challenged, people making these claims will backpedal. But then I read another article and they're at it again!

What's wrong with a moderate helping of (real) philosophy? There are some pretty strong knockdown arguments against relativism about facts (relativism about values is another matter). Is the truth of relativism itself relative? If it is, then it is not true for everyone (such as me). If relativism is objectively true, then there is at least one truth that is relative and relativism is false. Either way, relativism is not universally true. It's self-referentially inconsistent.

But as I said, you seem to be conversant with reasons, evidence, and taking a stand on factual questions (some nice enlightenment values there!). My conclusion is to guess that if you're into postmodernism, you're not into radical postmodernism.

[ana futura]

@ Assumption- PM'ed, so we don't muck up this very useful thread.

And for the public record, I view postmodernity like alcohol- a little is very useful: loosens up the senses, it even has medical value. Too much is poison, and it's difficult for many to see the line between too much and too little.

[MentalNomad]

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

My problem has never been my grades in of themselves... it's the inconsistency that kills me.

Inconsistency of grades? I've been doing very well now that I switched to the online format, which seems to work for those that are autodidacts, but in a way I feel it is less challenging than traditional college courses. But, I received high honors two semesters ago, and it is disconcerting because I don't feel after I finish a course that I am even half-way competent in the subject at all.

Originally Posted by ana futura

Do you find that your anxiety impacts your reading ability? Mine seems to, If I struggle to get something I get panicky, and it just gets harder and harder.

I know I'm cut out for academia though, as I kill it in seminar courses, I really enjoy what I'm doing, and my professors always seem to like my work (when I turn it in). I'm very aware of my limitations though: I will take longer to graduate than most, and I can't be employed at all while I'm in school. I'm okay with being slower and less accomplished than others, I have to be.

I feel you on the "something missing" bit, I've always felt that way too. It's alright though, as I know there will be "something missing" no matter what field I'm in. I've gotten fired from easy easy retail jobs, there was "something missing" there too. No field is a perfect fit for me, bar being paid to do nothing. At least in academia I'm challenged in a good way, and my abstract thinking ability and "out-there" state of mind benefit me (sometimes).

I bet you are a far better student than you give yourself credit for Nomad. Learn to embrace your positives, and live with your faults. I'm always surprised by the A's I get too, but I'm beginning to suspect that I might actually deserve them.

Yes, I believe anxiety impacts my reading ability. And, I should get a neuropsych eval regarding this, because it seems revealing doubt about an ability makes that other person subconsciously respect you less, or most people, and I just end up comparing myself based off of someone's supposed ability, I end up damaging myself more.

I'm surviving in school without meds, but all the information seems jumbled and incoherent. I was homeschooled for a number of years and I don't think I learned to learn in a traditional setting, or in a way that is satisfactory to most colleges.

[cyml33]

I read super fast and for novels and books I want to read, it's fine. I've discovered recently that the reason I read so much faster than other people is because I catch onto important words in the book and get the general meaning through that. Essentially, I pick the long words and the important words of every sentence and gloss over the rest.

But for textbooks, I find that I have to slow down and re-read everything at least twice because picking long words means reading every word and glossing over means missing crucial information. So perhaps you're glossing over more than you think you are, and that's why you can't get the meaning right away.

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by MentalNomad

Inconsistency of grades?

Yes, dependent on level of interest and overall mental state. I'm either a straight A/B student or I fail to complete the course (50% of the time since I've gotten out of the military, but to an extent, I blame PTSD and a decade out of school in addition to ADHD).

[MentalNomad]

Originally Posted by cyml33

I read super fast and for novels and books I want to read, it's fine. I've discovered recently that the reason I read so much faster than other people is because I catch onto important words in the book and get the general meaning through that. Essentially, I pick the long words and the important words of every sentence and gloss over the rest.

But for textbooks, I find that I have to slow down and re-read everything at least twice because picking long words means reading every word and glossing over means missing crucial information. So perhaps you're glossing over more than you think you are, and that's why you can't get the meaning right away.

I probably am glossing over, I always feel like I'm forcing myself to read when I open an official textbook, even if it is in a subject I enjoy. Even though I make an effort to read every single word of a chapter, sometimes my brain is unwilling to let it sink in. I also have a very hard time blocking out distractions.

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Yes, dependent on level of interest and overall mental state. I'm either a straight A/B student or I fail to complete the course (50% of the time since I've gotten out of the military, but to an extent, I blame PTSD and a decade out of school in addition to ADHD).

Prior to college, I was out of school for years as well. My ADHD was untreated for the longest time, and I'm not on any meds currently, only sporadically in the past and those instances weren't overall positive.

[Spacemaster]

It's amazing how fast I can plow through a book that I really like. It's a hyperfocus thing. I'll read for hours and hours, and when I'm done I need a nap. I can't function properly afterward, it's like I'm just shot.

If it's a book that I think is only OK, I'll have to re-read many pages because I've just glossed over whole pages, even though I've read every word.

I've been known to skip entire monologues if I think the character is rambling, or being redundant.

Not to derail the thread again, but,
side note: I've read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged at least twice, and I have a couple of her other works. My other favorite philosopher is Aristotle.

Anyone wanna guess where I stand on post-modernism?

Don't all smack me at once!

[MentalNomad]

I read "The Memoirs of Cleopatra" an approximately 1,000 page novel, in about three days. It took me about half an hour to read five pages in a traditional history textbook.

As for philosophers, I like Socrates because he apparently stood still for no apparent reason, it's been postulated that he literally froze to consider what his next step should be.

[zoomman]

Textbooks tend to be terribly written, full of stilted language,vague pronouns and ambiguous language. It's ironic that English textbooks tend to contain some of the most banal and awkward examples of English imaginable. ADHD aside, its hardly a wonder that students' eyes glaze over when confronted with text books.

I hardly ever fully read anything in textbooks when told to do so. I usually began with the questions assigned and skimmed the text for the relevant answers.

On the other hand, I actually collect good textbooks on grammar and rhetoric. But that's a type of sickness

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by ana futura

What's the difference to you between difficult and slow? I can easily grasp ideas, once I actually digest what I'm attempting to read. For me slow = difficult. I have to read things over and over until they gel. That re-reading process is so frustrating to me.

Difficult = I finish the reading and still don't have a clue what I just read.
Slow = Got it, but where did two hours go?

[fracturedstory]

Originally Posted by zoomman

Textbooks tend to be terribly written, full of stilted language,vague pronouns and ambiguous language. It's ironic that English textbooks tend to contain some of the most banal and awkward examples of English imaginable. ADHD aside, its hardly a wonder that students' eyes glaze over when confronted with text books.

I hardly ever fully read anything in textbooks when told to do so. I usually began with the questions assigned and skimmed the text for the relevant answers.

On the other hand, I actually collect good textbooks on grammar and rhetoric. But that's a type of sickness

I suppose it helps when you talk in a similar stilted language.

I never read fast because when I do I think I'll remember less. I study the structure of paragraphs as I read too. I'm an automatic mimicker of the authors I read. I'll read more of short chapters particularly if they are engaging. But even a really interesting 30 page chapter will make me put it down after I finish it.
I like to read at least one chapter of the books I'm reading a day though. I just signed up to Good Reads too, so I can have some encouragement to read more or at least get some ideas about what books to read next.

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Difficult = I finish the reading and still don't have a clue what I just read.
Slow = Got it, but where did two hours go?

Okay, I never fail to comprehend what I've read, so by your definition I'm slow. I do "know" where the 2 hours went- I spent them re-reading the same paragraph over and over waiting for it to sink in.

I used to read incredibly fast, but eventually I realized I was absorbing very little. I read a great many books when I was younger, and I can remember almost nothing about any of them. I still remember whole passages from "Play It As It Lays" though, and I read it about 15 years ago. That book is incredibly ADHD friendly. Short, direct, poignant. I love Joan Didion.

[Assumption]

Difficult and slow are two sides of the same coin, no? In cogsci there's something called a "speed-accuracy tradeoff". Typically you can go faster, but doing so will come at the cost of worse performance. I'm guessing it applies to reading. In which case it would be perfectly fair to say "I'm slow because it's difficult" or "reading fast and comprehending what I read is impossible." Both of those statements identify a speed-performance tradeoff.

@ana, "re-reading the same paragraph over and over waiting for it to sink in" does sound quite a bit like difficult (with slowness as a consequence). By the way, I do the exact same thing. It's a weird feeling, reading and processing the words on some level but not taking it in because you're thinking about something random.

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by Assumption

Difficult and slow are two sides of the same coin, no?

Yeah, thanks for articulating what I was trying to get at.

When Drew said reading wasn't "difficult" for him, I needed him to clarify "difficult" for me. I would still say reading is "difficult" for me. Actually, I think "frustrating" is the best word. The performance trade-off you describe nails it.

I "can" read fast- but I'll get very little from it. I "can" understand everything I've read, but I have to anguish over every little word.

I've noticed my brain check out in 2 distinct ways while reading- Sometimes it goes blank, no information in or out. Other times it drifts to some tangent inspired by the reading, but I'll keep on reading, then a few seconds later realize my eyes are drifting over the words, but I'm thinking about something else entirely. It is a very weird feeling.