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  #16  
Old 09-20-17, 11:10 PM
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Re: Theory of mind and intense world theory

It seems similar in it's presentation to ADHD. I mean by 3 types of presentation.

1. Intense World
2. Theory of Mind
3. Combined
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Old 09-21-17, 05:45 PM
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Re: Theory of mind and intense world theory

so can it be both?

sensitivity to emotion can impair perspective taking?
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Old 09-21-17, 06:36 PM
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Re: Theory of mind and intense world theory

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Originally Posted by Hermus View Post
In science the last few years a debate has emerged around two theories that strongly contradict each other. One is theory of mind, the other intense world theory.

The idea that people on the spectrum lack theory of mind was first proposed by Simon Baron-Cohen and has a lot of followers in academic circles. The basic assumption is that people on the autistic spectrum aren't able to read the emotions of other people and therefore lack empathy and are socially impaired.

http://theautismblog.seattlechildren...m-theory-mind/

Intense world theory is developed by Kamila and Henry Markram. "The Intense World Theory states that autism is the consequence of a supercharged brain that makes the world painfully intense and that the symptoms are largely because autistics are forced to develop strategies to actively avoid the intensity and pain. Autistics see, hear, feel, think, and remember too much, too deep, and process information too completely. The theory predicts that the autistic child is retreating into a controllable and predictable bubble to protect themselves from the intensity and pain."

Interview: Henry and Kamila Markram About the Intense World Theory for Autism

Personally I believe that the intense world theory is much more plausible. I have personal and logical reasons to believe so.

Personally I know that the lack of empathy that Baron-Cohen claims people on the spectrum suffer from, doesn't apply to me. I have the feeling I often care more about the suffering of others than many other people do, and perceive the emotions of other people quite strong. Others have told me they perceive me as a very empathetic person as well. I also know others on the spectrum that seem to care a lot about other people's suffering.

Logically I think theory of mind doesn't make sense at all. There is a scientific consensus that people on the spectrum are very susceptible to external stimuli, often even leading to sensory overload. Theory of mind would mean that that perceptiveness somehow suddenly stops when looking at other people. Unless the proponents of theory of mind can offer a theoretical explanation of why the sight of another person blocks the sensory perception, that is otherwise strongly present, that sounds very implausible to me.

I am wondering very much what others think of this.
i believe a psycopath is quite skilled at cognitive empathy, reading thoughts to manipulate, but lack the actually feelings (emotional empathy)

Unless the proponents of theory of mind can offer a theoretical explanation of why the sight of another person blocks the sensory perception, that is otherwise strongly present, that sounds very implausible to me.

im not sure but it might have to do with eye contact avoidance of some with autism ( some say sensory, but i dont think the human eyeball constitutes a sense, it does send emotion though)

so while autistic people and people ADHD (some) may be very sympathtic , the emotion may overwhelm cognitive (ToM)

dont a lot of us have trouble identifying our emotions? exclude obvious suffering

so it may relate to thin boundaries , separating the persons emotion from ours and overwhelming cognitive process or being confused of mixed emotions
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Old 09-21-17, 06:38 PM
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Re: Theory of mind and intense world theory

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Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
so can it be both?

sensitivity to emotion can impair perspective taking?
I wasn't thinking really about a cause and effect. I was thinking some probably can have a sensitivity to emotion and also have have an impaired perspective at times.

I think defining it as just Intense World or Theory of Mind seems too black and white and polarizing. Seems to me like there are probably some people that can have issues with both and be somewhere between the two polar ends. This is based on nothing more than a feeling I have.
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Old 04-20-18, 03:23 PM
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Re: Theory of mind and intense world theory

For me, the "intense world" theory has never rung true in the slightest. I'm hyposensory, not hypersensory. I am sensitive to exceptionally loud noises, but normal-volume noises in day-to-day life don't bother me.

The only real way the world can be "too intense" is in its demands for executive function. In other words, the unsettling thing about busy places is not the raw sensory quality of the motion and sounds, it's the fact that I might be called on to DO something that requires paying attention to what's going on around me. Awareness is more "expensive" to me than to others, for whom it seems quite "cheap". Cheaper, in fact, than deep thought. As long as I'm left alone to process things on my own terms, I actually crave stimulation.
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Old 04-22-18, 05:25 PM
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Re: Theory of mind and intense world theory

the issue is... trying to label anything as a ground concept for what is basically a SPECTRUM disorder is pretty much futile.

I have 4 autistic kids - most of them officially diagnosed -and just between these 4 it is already really hard to define a common denominator that they all share. Truth is they all come with a completely different user manual.

I have come to look at it like a cocktail of genes, and depending on how it is all mixed, shaken and stirred, you wind up with a whole different manifestation, and whatever drink you end up with in the end might not even be limited to the Autistic Spectrum, but instead overlap with several other neighbouring mental conditions.

These theories (and others) are trying to compress the complex workings of a genetic switchboard involving perhaps dozens of genetic switches under one "simple theoretical umbrella", and sometimes they fit for some cases, yet do total injustice to others.
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