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  #1  
Old 11-03-17, 12:12 PM
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can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

i take 150 welbutrin + 50x2 vyvanse
i tried 300 welbutrin + 70x2 vyvanse too

i always feel like wellbutrin make vyvanse weaker. it realy helped me, fix my anxious and insomia, but made vvyanse weaker ,i feel like it hard for me being focus on class.

what do you think?

Last edited by donio95; 11-03-17 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 11-03-17, 12:41 PM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

For me, it’s hard to say.

I’ve taken bupropion and dextroamphetamine sulfate for years, most often together, sometimes one or the other alone.

I’ve thought about this, I have read the literature, and I have spoken with a neuropsychopharmacologist about it.

All that, plus my own experience of taking these medications, didn’t result in a definitive answer.

It likely varies from person to person, and even for a given person over time.


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Old 11-10-17, 10:00 AM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

i feel i harder to me to remember what i study, is it make any sense?
and is there influence of i take the vyvanse and let it kick in, before i take welburin xl, or anyway welbutrin works 24 hours so it doesnt matter?
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Old 11-10-17, 03:07 PM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

Which of the doses you mentioned did your doctor tell you to take?
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Old 11-11-17, 07:35 AM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

usually my doc ask me how do i feel.
he told me to take 300 mg welbutrin, i told him it's to strong after 2 weeks i tried, so i he cut it back to 150.
right now i take 150 + 70x2 vyvanse.
i wish i could take less vyvanse, but each pill works only 6-7 hours, so i have to take it twice in a day and i always afraid that it too much and can hurt me.
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Old 06-17-18, 01:02 AM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

Should you must take Wellbutrin, you'd be wasting money on Vyvanse. Many people take them together admittingly without benefit even though its not recommended in fact contra-indicated and even when Psychiatrists themselves are iffy on this dual usage. Vyvanse is a beautiful medicine worth gold, please dont waste it. I call it 'the revenge of Wellbutrin'. To feel the beauty Vyvanse again you'll have to wait about 2-3 weeks at least for it get out of your system. For some reasons it took me a month.
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Old 09-19-18, 02:27 PM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by fathom6 View Post
Should you must take Wellbutrin, you'd be wasting money on Vyvanse. Many people take them together admittingly without benefit even though its not recommended in fact contra-indicated and even when Psychiatrists themselves are iffy on this dual usage. Vyvanse is a beautiful medicine worth gold, please dont waste it. I call it 'the revenge of Wellbutrin'. To feel the beauty Vyvanse again you'll have to wait about 2-3 weeks at least for it get out of your system. For some reasons it took me a month.
Well, technically, Wellbutrin raises dopamine and norepinephrine levels -- Vyvanse also raises these, however, raises dopamine a little higher. The reason Wellbutrin is considered an antidepressant is because, as it raises
norepinephrine levels, serotonin, by itself, will try to raise it's levels to create a balance with norepinephrine. This decreases anxiety, and it's why people who are too anxious on stimulants takes Wellbutrin. I also wouldn't classify it as a non-stimulant -- but for some people, it really isn't stimulating, so, to each their own.

And as much as I agree that Vyvanse is gold, and beautiful -- it only feels this way. Realistically, Vyvanse is poisonous, and it's only a matter of time before you have to go on a drug holiday to feel the effects again. Not judging, I take Vyvanse and Wellbutrin, but it certainly isn't anything to be glorified. You should also know that, if you plan on going off Vyvanse after a few years of usage, you will have around 20% more dopamine transporters than you would've had, had you not taken Vyvanse at all. This, in turn, will make your ADHD worse if you ever plan on stopping your Vyvanse therapy.

Life sucks. Vyvanse works, but you are paying an unfortunate price. Especially if you're taking 70mg x 2 a day (which, honestly, your psychiatrist should be feeling very guilty for prescribing you such a large dose).
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Old 09-20-18, 05:17 AM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by day_vay View Post
And as much as I agree that Vyvanse is gold, and beautiful -- it only feels this way. Realistically, Vyvanse is poisonous, and it's only a matter of time before you have to go on a drug holiday to feel the effects again. Not judging, I take Vyvanse and Wellbutrin, but it certainly isn't anything to be glorified. You should also know that, if you plan on going off Vyvanse after a few years of usage, you will have around 20% more dopamine transporters than you would've had, had you not taken Vyvanse at all. This, in turn, will make your ADHD worse if you ever plan on stopping your Vyvanse therapy.
Why would you say this as if it is fact? It may be your experience but that doesnt make it a definite for other people.
[/quote]
Quote:
Life sucks. Vyvanse works, but you are paying an unfortunate price. Especially if you're taking 70mg x 2 a day (which, honestly, your psychiatrist should be feeling very guilty for prescribing you such a large dose).
Why say the op's doctor should feel guilty? Are you a doctor? Many of us are on above average doses for many reasons. I am on 80 mg of adderall a day due to absorption issues. If I miss a day or two I am tired but I bounce back ok.
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Old 09-20-18, 09:00 AM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by day_vay View Post
You should also know that, if you plan on going off Vyvanse after a few years of usage, you will have around 20% more dopamine transporters than you would've had, had you not taken Vyvanse at all.
Is there evidence for this? And even if it's true, is 20% even that significant? I wouldn't be surprised if Vyvanse, like any psych med, causes some long-term alterations in the brain, but generally speaking stimulants don't cause tolerance when taken therapeutically. Also, having a lifetime of crushing disappointment from untreated ADHD can lead to alterations in the brain as well!

By your logic, you could cure ADHD by taking a bunch of anti-psychotics to increase your sensitivity to dopamine!
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Old 09-23-18, 04:45 PM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
Is there evidence for this? And even if it's true, is 20% even that significant? I wouldn't be surprised if Vyvanse, like any psych med, causes some long-term alterations in the brain, but generally speaking stimulants don't cause tolerance when taken therapeutically. Also, having a lifetime of crushing disappointment from untreated ADHD can lead to alterations in the brain as well!

By your logic, you could cure ADHD by taking a bunch of anti-psychotics to increase your sensitivity to dopamine!
So the proof for transporter increase in stimulant therapy (at therapeutic doses) in a 12 month period can be found in this study: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0063023

(If the study was done with Vyvanse, the result would be the same as long as the dosage was titrated to the same amount of effectiveness as the methylphenidate treatment. Furthermore, in a follow up study, it is suggested that the longer the period of therapy, the higher the increase in transporters.)

However, as for if a 20% increase is significant -- I cannot tell you for sure. A 20% increase of your dopamine transporters not being able to bind would lead to a very bad case of Parkinson's. Now, mind you, that these are on the opposite sides of the spectrum. So if there's not enough dopamine because there's a 20% increase in transporters, which would lead to your dopamine being used up in a way that does not benefit your executive functions, I would reckon it would be a noticeable difference. But like I said, these problems are polar opposites (Parkinson has a "too much dopamine" problem).

As for anti-psychotic medications, they actually reduce your sensitivity to dopamine. You see, with schizophrenia, and psychosis, there's a problem where the back-side of your brain is receiving too much dopamine, and this in turn causes hallucinations and paranoia. If you're wondering why your psychiatrist asked you during your first interview if you're a worrier, or (if you admitted that you smoked weed like I did) if you get paranoid when you smoke -- it's because people who display signs of paranoia are very susceptible to schizophrenia/psychosis, and ADHD meds would most definitely prematurely activate these disorders. It's why you have to be totally honest with your psychiatrist.
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Old 09-23-18, 05:28 PM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Why would you say this as if it is fact? It may be your experience but that doesnt make it a definite for other people.
Well, the increase of dopamine transporters is fact -- that I can say for sure (study can be found here: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0063023). Maybe I'm putting it harshly when I say it's poisonous, but technically, it would be considered a poison as it causes a negative disturbance in your organic brain chemistry. And if you never have to go on a drug vacation, then I suppose you're lucky. However, this is debatable among psychiatrists. I've heard some say that their psychiatrist has said at the correct dose you shouldn't develop a tolerance, but I would say this is untrue because of this very study I've sourced, which directly proves that a tolerance is built. And I've personally never read, or heard from a psychiatrist that has claimed that a tolerance isn't built.

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Why say the op's doctor should feel guilty? Are you a doctor? Many of us are on above average doses for many reasons. I am on 80 mg of adderall a day due to absorption issues. If I miss a day or two I am tired but I bounce back ok.
Sorry, I was assuming this dosage was due to a tolerance -- it's rare that someone will have an absorption issue. I'm sure you've posted this somewhere before, but did your doctor ever find out what exactly the absorption issue is?

Also, when you say you bounce back, do you mean that if you don't take stimulants you return to how you were before you took stimulants? If you are tired the first few days, "bouncing back" is to be expected. Your psychology will adapt so that you don't feel tired every day -- but the transmitters are still in excess, in turn making your ADHD worse. Now, I hate saying this but polling has suggested that adults who took ADHD stimulants for one year had a performance drop after quitting -- and get this, the performance was worse than it was before stimulant therapy. As someone who took Vyvanse for a month or two then quit for six months, I can testify to the performance drop. However, my experience is certainly nothing to take into account. The polling makes it less anecdotal.

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Old 09-24-18, 01:08 AM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by day_vay View Post
However, as for if a 20% increase is significant -- I cannot tell you for sure.
The clinical consensus is that long term stimulant therapy does not lead to significant tolerance issues for the focusing effects. For the motivating effects, yes, there is rapid tolerance, but that's a separate issue.

For sake of argument, let's say that a 20% increase in transporters necessitates a 20% increase in dosage. That's like going from 20mg/day to 25mg/day. That's a small dose increase, that's it's not even worth worrying about IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by day_vay View Post
As for anti-psychotic medications, they actually reduce your sensitivity to dopamine.
If you were to suddenly stop taking your anti-psychotics, then you'd suddenly be very sensitive to dopamine. Which would reduce your ADHD symptoms. According to your own logic, at least


Quote:
Originally Posted by day_vay View Post
If you're wondering why your psychiatrist asked you during your first interview if you're a worrier, or (if you admitted that you smoked weed like I did) if you get paranoid when you smoke -- it's because people who display signs of paranoia are very susceptible to schizophrenia/psychosis, and ADHD meds would most definitely prematurely activate these disorders. It's why you have to be totally honest with your psychiatrist.
I think you might be unnecessarily conflating "worrier" with "paranoia." As someone who has generalized anxiety disorder and ADHD, I'm worried and anxious all the time. But I'm not paranoid or disconnected from reality. Everyone experiences anxious thoughts, but I have less of an ability to self-soothe.

Pretty much everyone with ADHD also suffers from comorbid anxiety issues. It's par for the course, since ADHD causes a lifetime of soul-crushing failure and disappointment. So clearly, it's medically safe to prescribe stimulants to ADHD people who have comorbid anxiety. Otherwise, nobody would be able to get a prescription for stimulants!
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Old 09-24-18, 08:34 PM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
The clinical consensus is that long term stimulant therapy does not lead to significant tolerance issues for the focusing effects. For the motivating effects, yes, there is rapid tolerance, but that's a separate issue.
I'd like to see your clinical study on that, because the study I have cited directly disproves your claim. More dopamine transporters = less focus. This is why ADD/ADHD medication was created. To create a better balance between dopamine and dopamine transporters in ADD/ADHD patients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
For sake of argument, let's say that a 20% increase in transporters necessitates a 20% increase in dosage. That's like going from 20mg/day to 25mg/day. That's a small dose increase, that's it's not even worth worrying about IMO.
I'm not sure where you've come to the conclusion that there is somehow a 1:1 ratio between medicine dosage and DAT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
If you were to suddenly stop taking your anti-psychotics, then you'd suddenly be very sensitive to dopamine. Which would reduce your ADHD symptoms. According to your own logic, at least
Haha, well, this is actually true in the case of people who use anti-psychotics long term. In fact, what you will get, is, people who are older and have ceased using anti-psychotics, will literally begin to writhe -- like they're doing the part of the cha-cha dance where you're supposed to go as low as you can possibly go. Their face can twitch, they have a sharp focus -- so sharp that they can focus on one thing until they pass out from exhaustion. The problem? They didn't show these signs before medications -- not to mention their psychosis returns. Thus, they did become more sensitive to dopamine. So, it seems my logic checks out here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
I think you might be unnecessarily conflating "worrier" with "paranoia." As someone who has generalized anxiety disorder and ADHD, I'm worried and anxious all the time. But I'm not paranoid or disconnected from reality. Everyone experiences anxious thoughts, but I have less of an ability to self-soothe.
Early stages of schizophrenia and psychosis are often misdiagnosed as anxiety. Next time you see your psychiatrist, ask them why they asked you that question before prescribing you ADD/ADHD meds. I don't think you truly realize how suseptible someone is to developing psychosis or schizophrenia while using stimulants. It is insanely common. Sometimes the psychosis can be mild all your life -- strange visuals (like a certain graininess, or something appearing in your peripheral vision -- only for it to be nothing), hypochondria, and other such things which can also be mistaken for anxiety, can also be psychosis in one form or another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
Pretty much everyone with ADHD also suffers from comorbid anxiety issues. It's par for the course, since ADHD causes a lifetime of soul-crushing failure and disappointment. So clearly, it's medically safe to prescribe stimulants to ADHD people who have comorbid anxiety. Otherwise, nobody would be able to get a prescription for stimulants!
Right now the biggest debate in the medical community when it comes to ADD/ADHD is whether or not stimulants are safe to prescribe to people who have anxiety. The majority of studies claim that it's a bad idea. These are also the newest studies. Other studies, which are older, and now no longer the majority consensus, claim that stimulants help anxiety. So I suppose you can take that as you will.
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Old 09-24-18, 11:03 PM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by day_vay View Post
I'd like to see your clinical study on that, because the study I have cited directly disproves your claim. More dopamine transporters = less focus.
I don't have any clinical studies on hand right now, and I'm too busy to search for any (I'm using ADDF to procrastinate right now!). But it's pretty common clinical consensus.

Where is your evidence that 20% decrease in dopamine transporter makes a clinically significant difference? And even if it does make a difference, that can probably be managed simply by increasing the dosage of medication. And what's your point? Of course long-term administration of any psych med will lead to some long-term changes in brain chemistry. Are people just not supposed to take any psych meds then?

What is your overall point that you're trying to get across? It seems like you are very against stimulants, and that you're trying to get people to join your cause. I'm not going to pretend that there are no downsides or risks to stimulant treatment, but you seem to be so committed to painting a one-sided negative narrative, and I just want to know why.

Anxiety is the #1 most common symptom that patients present with to a psychiatrist. And pretty much every ADHD patient struggles with anxiety. Why wouldn't they? Their ADHD has caused them to fail constantly in all aspects of life. Are you saying that only the calm, non-anxious ADHD patients should get ADHD medication?

It is exceedingly rare for schizo and ADHD to be comorbid. Yes, there are some exceptions, but it's just not common enough to justify denying ADHD patients the right to ever try stimulant medication. ADHD is neurodevelopmental disorder with early childhood onset, whereas schizo tends to first develop in young adults who have no prior history of significant psych disorders. In fact, if someone has ADHD, they're probably statistically less likely to ever develop schizo!
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Old 09-25-18, 12:33 AM
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Re: can welbutrin make vyvanse weaker?

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Originally Posted by day_vay View Post

Sorry, I was assuming this dosage was due to a tolerance -- it's rare that someone will have an absorption issue. I'm sure you've posted this somewhere before, but did your doctor ever find out what exactly the absorption issue is?
I had gastric bypass surgery in '09 and with that came the loss of 100cm of small intestine. The type of surgery I did have meant they also had to re-route my intestines to the "new" stomach. Because of this, I am a fast metabolizer of meds and have to take multiple smaller doses a day for effectivness. For example, I am on 500mg of Lamictal taken in 100mg doses twice a day. The absorption of nutrients is affected as well which plays into overall how my digestion works. I also have uh... the term my GI used was "lazy bowel" meaning waste moves slowly in my guts and expels slowly as well. I also have Barretts esophogus due to an ulcer and acid reflux and I take medication for that as well.

I have been on stimulants for 14 years. When I have stopped them for pregnancy or whatever I go through the typical sleepiness/fogginess but eventually end up where I started which is severe, untreated adhd.
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