ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSIONS, RESEARCH, NEWS AND EVENTS > Scientific, Philosophical & Theoretical Discussions > Open Science & Philosophical Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Open Science & Philosophical Discussion This forum is for open discussion, encouraging new and unconventional ways of thinking, welcoming posts in any format

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 11-05-17, 02:41 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Two
Posts: 10,917
Thanks: 1,269
Thanked 852 Times in 630 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: Amphetamine and Pain: pain reception dysfunction and psychopathology

Quote:
Emotional networks and depression

A key research question for affective disorders is why depression feels so bad. Specifically, which negative affect generating networks within mammalian brains helps generate depressive pain that leads to chronic despair?

Although all the affective networks of the mammalian brain can be influenced by depression - from diminished CARE and PLAY to elevated FEAR and RAGE - the “painfulness” of depressive affect may be engendered most persistently (i) by sustained overactivity of GRIEF, which promotes a downward cascade toward chronic despair, following a theoretical view originally formulated by John Bowlby.33 This promotes (ii) the sustained dysphoria of depression which may be due largely to abnormally low activity of the reward-SEEKING system. For an extensive discussion, along with expert commentaries, see ref 34.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181986/
Types of depression are some types of emotional pain?

Abnormally low activity of the reward-SEEKING system may be due to sustained overactivity of the GRIEF system (opioid inhibitors?)?






M
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better -- they want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)

Last edited by mildadhd; 11-05-17 at 02:58 PM..
  #17  
Old 11-05-17, 03:17 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Two
Posts: 10,917
Thanks: 1,269
Thanked 852 Times in 630 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: Amphetamine and Pain: pain reception dysfunction and psychopathology

Quote:
Thus, although negative affective changes in the opioidand oxytocin-driven attachment and affectional systems may be the pivotal precipitants of psychological pain that is the entry point for a depressive cascade, it may be diminished SEEKING that pushes the system into a sustained clinically significant dysphoria. This scenario does not exclude the potential contribution of other biogenic amine imbalances in depression - changes in overall brain arousal can reinforce the above affective changes. Because of the affective complexity and diversity of depression, many variants on these basic themes can be envisioned, yielding many subtypes of depression. It would be premature to try to relate the emotional primes to the various subtypes - anxious, agitated, etc - but to simply indicate that FEAR overactivity may contribute to anxious forms, while the GRIEF separation-distress system might contribute more to melancholic forms, while selectively diminished SEEKING may contribute to those forms where agitation is not prevalent.
Depressive types of emotional pain?

Anxious types of emotional pain?

Agitated types of emotional pain?



M
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better -- they want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)
  #18  
Old 11-05-17, 10:24 PM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,372
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,544
Thanked 5,924 Times in 2,764 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Amphetamine and Pain: pain reception dysfunction and psychopathology

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderboy View Post
An area of personal scientific interest and inquiry for me is the correlation of possible dysregulation of pain receptors… How we perceive pain, both emotionally and physically, and its correlation, or possible correlation, to psychological disorders, such as major depressive disorder, anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, and ADHD.



It seems to me that most scientific inquiry still studies the antiquated
"Tried and True" serotonin system, along with norepinephrine, and some basic inquiry into dopamine

(expand beyond that, and you will find, very little, as of today)
Thee are 2 main pain pathways-- the lateral pathway which gives localisation of the pain in the somatosensory cortex, and the medial system (it diverges from the lateral system in the thalamus). The medial system evaluates a pain (and also an emotional stimulus) for its threat value.

Inputs come from the spinal cord, from the somstosensory system, from the sum of interoceptive inputs (any sensation from the interior of the body even if not consciously accessable and the balance system. Processing occurs largely in the insula and the ACC, with some passing back and forth of information to the amgydala (I suspect that is where memories from the hippocampus come in). Outputs include outputs to the autonomic nervous system .

Emotional pain can produce very similar firing patterns to physical pain.

It seems that there are a number of ways the system can get locked:
interoception is largely governed by autonomic activity- so that can cause a positive feedback loop. In the ACC - chronic attention to pain area 32) can cause down regulation of area 25 (vibration sense). and then area 25 fails to regulae area 32!
In the spinal cord, the pain can cause chronic dysregulation of thermal sensation, ( techniques are being developed to control that by local application of cold stimuli). Finally, from the brain the chronic pain can interfere with the descending inhibitory controls. So there are a number of points at which the pathway can be hacked- and they are similar in some ways to an EMDR approach.



Quote:
You may find someone talking about dopamine, and never heard of substance P
That's probably because nobody has found a way to make a therapeutic target of it.

[/quote]

But, many scholars have found that there is a clear model of:

* disrupted emotional and physical modulation of pain and psychopathology *


Faulty modulation correlates, most often, with the following:

____________________________
dorsolateral prefrontal cortex
parahippocampal gyrus,
thalamus, amygdala,
brainstem nuclei ** (Substance P) **
orbitofrontal cortex
____________________________
[/quote]

Agreed- see above- re some of the loops producing that faulty modulation.
__________________
Science advances --one funeral at a time.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

both by:
Max Planck: Nobel Prize 1918 for inventing quantum physics.

The Following User Says Thank You to Kunga Dorji For This Useful Post:
mildadhd (11-10-17)
Sponsored Links
  #19  
Old 11-10-17, 03:09 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Two
Posts: 10,917
Thanks: 1,269
Thanked 852 Times in 630 Posts
mildadhd has disabled reputation
Re: Amphetamine and Pain: pain reception dysfunction and psychopathology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunga Dorji View Post

That's probably because nobody has found a way to make a therapeutic target of it.
If I understand Jaak Panksepp correctly, substance p stimulates the RAGE system?, if we can find direct and indirect ways of "lowering" substance p, maybe we will able to find different ways of lowering irritability in people suffering from irritability disorders?

I wonder how many people in jail, suffer from over aroused RAGE system?

Does ADHD medication indirectly or directly "lower" substance p?




M
__________________
"When people are suffering mentally, they want to feel better -- they want to stop having bad emotions and start having good emotions." (-Temple Grandin)
  #20  
Old 11-11-17, 12:32 AM
peripatetic peripatetic is offline
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 21,073
Blog Entries: 12
Thanks: 32,777
Thanked 31,854 Times in 14,350 Posts
peripatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Amphetamine and Pain: pain reception dysfunction and psychopathology

moderator note

this thread is starting to drift at times. let's keep it focused on the thread starter's topic.

cheers,
-peri
The Following User Says Thank You to peripatetic For This Useful Post:
wonderboy (11-11-17)
  #21  
Old 11-11-17, 01:11 PM
wonderboy wonderboy is offline
Suspended Account
 

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 401
Blog Entries: 5
Thanks: 207
Thanked 270 Times in 169 Posts
wonderboy has a spectacular aura aboutwonderboy has a spectacular aura about
Re: Amphetamine and Pain: pain reception dysfunction and psychopathology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunga Dorji View Post
Thee are 2 main pain pathways-- the lateral pathway which gives localisation of the pain in the somatosensory cortex, and the medial system (it diverges from the lateral system in the thalamus). The medial system evaluates a pain (and also an emotional stimulus) for its threat value.

Inputs come from the spinal cord, from the somstosensory system, from the sum of interoceptive inputs (any sensation from the interior of the body even if not consciously accessable and the balance system. Processing occurs largely in the insula and the ACC, with some passing back and forth of information to the amgydala (I suspect that is where memories from the hippocampus come in). Outputs include outputs to the autonomic nervous system .

Emotional pain can produce very similar firing patterns to physical pain.

It seems that there are a number of ways the system can get locked:
interoception is largely governed by autonomic activity- so that can cause a positive feedback loop. In the ACC - chronic attention to pain area 32) can cause down regulation of area 25 (vibration sense). and then area 25 fails to regulae area 32!
In the spinal cord, the pain can cause chronic dysregulation of thermal sensation, ( techniques are being developed to control that by local application of cold stimuli). Finally, from the brain the chronic pain can interfere with the descending inhibitory controls. So there are a number of points at which the pathway can be hacked- and they are similar in some ways to an EMDR approach.





That's probably because nobody has found a way to make a therapeutic target of it.
But, many scholars have found that there is a clear model of:

* disrupted emotional and physical modulation of pain and psychopathology *


Faulty modulation correlates, most often, with the following:

____________________________
dorsolateral prefrontal cortex
parahippocampal gyrus,
thalamus, amygdala,
brainstem nuclei ** (Substance P) **
orbitofrontal cortex
____________________________
[/quote]

Agreed- see above- re some of the loops producing that faulty modulation.[/quote]







I agree with the moderator, although I started this thread, I feel it's time to stop the thread

Even though this is scientific information, we are scientists and should proactively try to express ourselves in ways that ordinary people --can understand-what we are saying.

The purpose of this entire form is not to scare anyone, but, to serve as a light, a beacon, for others to see and make choices of their own, and scientists who post should post in the manner that anyone could understand what they are stating, otherwise you can create anxiety

For example, we can discuss schizophrenia, and a diagnosis that is being removed from the DSM ICD-10 "simple schizophrenia"

This is schizophrenia that lacks, completely, the positive symptoms of schizophrenia, but is it a legitimate disorder in isolation, or should it be a schizophrenic spectrum disorder.

These are profound tasks, but they are off focus



To summarize, I agree with the moderator



And that is not the purpose of this form at all
The Following User Says Thank You to wonderboy For This Useful Post:
peripatetic (11-11-17)
  #22  
Old 11-11-17, 01:36 PM
peripatetic peripatetic is offline
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 21,073
Blog Entries: 12
Thanks: 32,777
Thanked 31,854 Times in 14,350 Posts
peripatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Amphetamine and Pain: pain reception dysfunction and psychopathology

thread closed per thread starter's request.
The Following User Says Thank You to peripatetic For This Useful Post:
wonderboy (11-11-17)
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums