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Primary & Secondary Education This forum is for parents to discuss issues related to their children's education and AD/HD.

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  #16  
Old 02-10-17, 11:22 AM
Hiddencreations Hiddencreations is offline
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Re: 504 Plan

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I have to say that was a super explanation by hiddencreations!

For us in GA the 504 plan was a joke. Perhaps it's better up there but down here the 504 was barely glanced at by teachers, rarely followed, and what my son REALLY needed was a co-taught atmosphere in the classroom to keep him mentally present during the lesson. Co-taught classes are only allowed for students with an IEP.
Right, the quality and effectiveness of a 504 plan varies depending on the school district. At my school the 504 team was also managed by the IEP coordinator, so many procedures that are only required for IEPs were carried over to 504 plan meetings. Other school districts will try to avoid 504 plans or not follow them to the letter because there is a lack of close monitoring and they are not directly connected to receiving funding.

And you are right, five years of tier 2 and 3 interventions would set off red flags in my mind that there needs to be a referral made for an evaluation especially if I'm not seeing progress at the expected rate. Also, the verbal and nonverbal testing being 3-5 years would make me do a second glance at a student's file too.
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  #17  
Old 02-10-17, 12:38 PM
Caco3girl Caco3girl is online now
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Re: 504 Plan

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Originally Posted by Hiddencreations View Post
Right, the quality and effectiveness of a 504 plan varies depending on the school district. At my school the 504 team was also managed by the IEP coordinator, so many procedures that are only required for IEPs were carried over to 504 plan meetings. Other school districts will try to avoid 504 plans or not follow them to the letter because there is a lack of close monitoring and they are not directly connected to receiving funding.

And you are right, five years of tier 2 and 3 interventions would set off red flags in my mind that there needs to be a referral made for an evaluation especially if I'm not seeing progress at the expected rate. Also, the verbal and nonverbal testing being 3-5 years would make me do a second glance at a student's file too.
They would move him to Tier 2 when I would complain about a deficiency, did some minor testing on a computer when he was tier 3. I was told he was an auditory learner and given a personal letter from his reading teacher to pass onto the middle school reading teacher explaining that he should be allowed to mumble under his breath while reading, because it helps him, and he was moved back to Tier 1.

The words "He's average" have been used OFTEN. More than often. However, the scale used here when evaluating state tests are that the 84th-16th percentile is average, and 15% and below is severely disabled. Not sure how there is no catagory between average and severely disabled. My son usually landed between 16-21%, so he's "AVERAGE".
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  #18  
Old 02-10-17, 08:32 PM
InterestedInPsy InterestedInPsy is offline
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Re: 504 Plan

I have heard about this problem in the states. I have subscribed to a YouTube channel called How To ADHD, and she did a video on school accommodations. And apparently the education thing made this letter and recommendations for kids with AD/HD. I have the link to this:

https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/li...7-504-adhd.pdf

So you can see if this applies. I am in Canada where we only have IEPs and there is no 504 plan. Gifted kids have IEPs here, so there is no grades behind thingy. Most of the time, things seem to go smoother overall. I got accommodations for when I was only diagnosed with two anxiety disorders with just a psychiatrist note saying I need a few things, and then I managed to add things overtime as new diagnoses were added. But I have heard stories about kids with AD/HD here, and some seem to struggle. A friend (maybe a friend?) said they were barely able to get an IEP for an AD/HD diagnosis. There is no OHI category here. There is behaviour and learning disability, which are the closest to AD/HD here.

Anyways, that probably was off topic. But from what I've read, trying for an IEP may help. Even if it doesn't help now, how about the future? What happens if you need more later? Why don't you get it done now for the future so that it's there when he needs it the most.

Some accommodations I recommend (if you want recommendations anyways) are:
-Extra time (don't know how it is in the states, but I get double time)
-Separate area to write
-Someone to read questions out loud (reading comprehension)
-Use of calculator (math)
-Maybe you'd be able to get assistive technology if you have an IEP (I don't know how it works in the States) such as Kurweil or Dragon NaturallySpeaking
(For reading comprehension)

There are a lot more, but I am unsure what else I can say works. Here is a link for this:

http://www.attentiondeficit-info.com...dents-adhd.pdf
http://www.caddac.ca/cms/page.php?57
http://readingcomprehensiondisabilit...modations.html
https://www.understood.org/en/school...or-dyscalculia

Anyways, try the letter I linked above. Maybe that would help? You can print it or email it to teachers. Read it through yourself also (it's 44 pages I believe). Hope this helps :-)
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  #19  
Old 02-24-17, 11:17 AM
ajaxblu ajaxblu is offline
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Re: 504 Plan

I'm new to this also and am in a similar boat as you so I don’t have much advice to offer except my own personal observations…


- I get the impression that a psychiatrist carries more weight with written recommendations regarding 504/IEP than a pediatrician, even though the school must still evaluate.



- School psychologists seem to be either not as updated on ADHD & LD as outside psychiatrists, or they purposely divulge as little helpful (to you) info as possible in their assessments.


- Don't take the word of anyone at the school as truth until you check it out yourself, including spec. ed. teachers. Even if they are great people and professionals, they are sometimes not informed (a spec. ed. teacher at my school said that my daughter must not have ADHD since she's not hyper; and that if she can focus on her art, she should be able to focus on all her subjects)



I feel that all of the above points are reason to try to obtain testing from an experienced psychiatrist outside of school also as a backup against what the school may tell you.


Also, I would take at least one person with you to all meetings, preferably more, to be able to keep track of what's being said, because you can't grasp it all on your own and might miss something crucial. Be sure that you and/or that other person know your rights and the law inside/out, and that if you are not a confrontational confident personality, the other person is. As much as you think you’re prepared, you are not (I thought I was prepared – I was wrong; and I didn't think to school my husband, who IS confident and confrontational, on all the stuff I've learned - I just gave him an overview and he didn't know when they were misleading us).



The schools will pounce on the opportunity to take advantage of any hesitation/ignorance on your part and blow you off. They’ve dealt with this stuff every day for years – you’re new to it. They can be very sly about acting as if the child’s welfare is in their best interest while telling you you’re overreacting. That's not to say that they're all terrible people, but they're under rules not to cause the school more financial burden.




If anyone disagrees with these points, feel free to chime in.



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  #20  
Old 04-07-17, 04:55 PM
angelover02740 angelover02740 is offline
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Re: 504 Plan

Thank you all for your advice. We have got him testing and we are waiting back from the school.
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  #21  
Old 04-07-17, 09:19 PM
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Re: 504 Plan

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Originally Posted by angelover02740 View Post
unfortunately if he is not 2 years behind in his academics then he wont qualify for an IEP and I would have to wait 3 years before he can be retested again. Tomorrow I meet with his teacher to see where he is at academically to see how far behind he is and then we will discuss if we should go forward with an IEP, if not 504 Plan is our best option
Anyone who has told you that does not know the civil rights law.
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  #22  
Old 11-18-17, 08:44 AM
Invisibleink Invisibleink is offline
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Re: 504 Plan

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Originally Posted by angelover02740 View Post
I spoke to his pediatrician who isnt old probably mid 40's. I will speak to his teacher today and see what her intake is, im sure she has dealt with this in the past. We live in Massachusetts so if anyone has any information on how Massachusetts hands this it would be greatly appreciated
I hope that you have made progress since posting.

Massachusetts has some difficult hurdles when it comes to qualifying for an IEP. While their laws have language for identifying students, in part based on their expected potential (IQ), they handle some aspects of evaluations and services differently.

1. Independent evaluations: requesting an IEE at public expense limits you to what evaluators you can use. It must be someone that accepts the “state rate” for services—which is mostly teaching hospitals with long wait times. Yet, unless the school performs the testing themselves or the testing comes from an IEE at public expense (NOT your own privately obtained evaluations) information tends to be discarded by the team in making eligibility decisions.

2. Related services: related services are only provided on IEP’s in MA. State education laws dictate that if a child needs related services they are to be given an IEP. While that sounded good on the surface, it meant that a child needed to pass the higher bar of IEP eligibility as opposed to 504 in order to receive related services (speech, OT—anything).

I believe that the intent of the law was to give all students needing related services the protection of an IEP, but districts seem to implement this as a gatekeeping device—where you don’t get those services unless you pass the more rigorous IEP eligibility criteria.

Some things I’ve learned along the way:

1. your child’s teacher is the very first gatekeeper you’ll meet. Unless your child is failing or below average on state testing, or is very disruptive in class, you will probably have a tough time getting past that gate—or any other gates.

2. A neurpsych evaluation is indespensible in understanding strengths / weaknesses. Expensive, and may not help with eligibility, but very valuable to have the details.

3. Don’t just look at the full scale IQ on testing—and don’t let the school get away with doing that either! If there is scatter they will try to minimize weaknesses and strengths by calling the full scale IQ “average”—especially when comparing that data to achievement results.

4. Take your own data! The eligibility team will only rely on data in their decision—and most likely only data collected by them. Log how much time homework takes, behavior like meltdowns during homework, frustration levels, forgetting to bring home or pass in hw, organization skills. Email teachers when you see difficulties or patterns emerge so there is documentation.

5. If you ask multiple questions in an email the teacher only has to reply on what they actually want to have on record. Apparently, they must reply to emails with parent concerns. For very important items, put only that one concern in an email so they must address your concern in their response. If they dodge the issue that speaks volumes as well.

—Been there, done that. Good luck!
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