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  #31  
Old 11-23-17, 05:16 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I guess I just don't understand why they would need them outside of school, meeting, baseball game..etc. Playing with their friends outside doesn't seem to warrant meds...In their case my son just gets spacey, and my daughter gets hyper. Neither of which hinders them in their play.
Doesn't interfere with play itself, no.

That said, it does hinder socialization, inclusion in peer groups, and the formation of relationships...with others, but more importantly, with their self.

And problems with that last bit is the single biggest determinant in the development of poor self esteem, mood disorders, anxiety disorders, chronic substance abuse, unwanted pregnancy, and acquiring a STI.

Children with ADHD need meds in most situations because ADHD affects all situations, and it never goes into remission.

If we withhold assistance to someone with a disability, it is rightly considered a violation of the law and a willful criminal act.

ADHD is a disability under the law. Why leave ADHD children disabled when there is a possibility to work toward their well-being and health?


Cheers,
Ian
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  #32  
Old 11-27-17, 10:40 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by aeon View Post
Doesn't interfere with play itself, no.

That said, it does hinder socialization, inclusion in peer groups, and the formation of relationships...with others, but more importantly, with their self.

And problems with that last bit is the single biggest determinant in the development of poor self esteem, mood disorders, anxiety disorders, chronic substance abuse, unwanted pregnancy, and acquiring a STI.

Children with ADHD need meds in most situations because ADHD affects all situations, and it never goes into remission.

If we withhold assistance to someone with a disability, it is rightly considered a violation of the law and a willful criminal act.

ADHD is a disability under the law. Why leave ADHD children disabled when there is a possibility to work toward their well-being and health?


Cheers,
Ian
No, ADHD doesn't go into remission. However, why would you think the ADHD meds help with socialization, inclusion of peer groups, or formation of relationships?

I don't see the relationship there. The meds don't flip a switch and make them pick up on social cues, they are quirky kids. The kids in the neighborhood can either like them or not, personally I'd rather they be liked for themselves, not their medicated selves. Similarly when they find that special someone that person has to be able to like them on or off their meds.

My children will always have impulse control issues, but the meds are short acting, not 24/7. ADHD meds aren't like depression meds that build up in your system and work over time, they are more like a shot of medicine right to the brain and then they wear off. It may be at 1pm or 7pm, but they wear off. While the kids might never be able to control themselves completely, and I do give SOME leniency for their ADHD, I'm of the opinion they need to be put in social situations on and off their meds to see the difference and to try to learn to make adaptations.

I will say again, if I had an aggressive ADHD kid that off his meds he liked to fight people this discussion would be VERY different, but my kids are goofy, spacey and energetic, not aggressive.
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  #33  
Old 11-27-17, 11:15 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
No, ADHD doesn't go into remission. However, why would you think the ADHD meds help with socialization, inclusion of peer groups, or formation of relationships?
Because of the pro-social effects of psychostimulants, including willingness and ability to engage, the ability to listen, the ability to prevent the mind from wandering during engagement, the ability to understand the dynamics and timing of a group situation, the ability to control oneself so as to not interrupt, the potential reduction of social anxiety.

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I don't see the relationship there. The meds don't flip a switch and make them pick up on social cues, they are quirky kids.
Yet meds give them the opportunity and the potential ability to pick up on social cues...something that is absolutely key in terms of human development.

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
The kids in the neighborhood can either like them or not, personally I'd rather they be liked for themselves, not their medicated selves. Similarly when they find that special someone that person has to be able to like them on or off their meds.
A false dichotomy, I think. A person is liked, or not, for their self, regardless of the use of medication. No one is liked because they are medicated, though the reduction of disability facilitates peer bonding because of the removal of non-normative behaviors.

And yes, I value the idea of, and hope for, the unconditional love for and acceptance of any and all people in intimate relationships.

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
While the kids might never be able to control themselves completely, and I do give SOME leniency for their ADHD, I'm of the opinion they need to be put in social situations on and off their meds to see the difference and to try to learn to make adaptations.
Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I will say again, if I had an aggressive ADHD kid that off his meds he liked to fight people this discussion would be VERY different, but my kids are goofy, spacey and energetic, not aggressive.
Maybe this is all part of a self-referential bias on my part.

You see, I was goofy, spacey, and energetic as a child, sensitive and polite, compliant and people-pleasing...and I only wish I could have been diagnosed and medicated when I was small.


Cheers,
Ian
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  #34  
Old 11-27-17, 01:10 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
...why would you think the ADHD meds help with socialization, inclusion of peer groups, or formation of relationships?
Mostly because ADHD is defined and specified in the DSM-V, which includes this section (emphasis added by me):

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM-V
Functional Consequences of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder

ADHD is associated with reduced school performance and academic attainment, social rejection, and, in adults, poorer occupational performance, attainment, attendance, and higher probability of unemployment as well as elevated interpersonal conflict. Children with ADHD are significantly more likely than their peers without ADHD to develop conduct disorder in adolescence and antisocial personality disorder in adulthood, consequently increasing the likelihood for substance use disorders and incarceration. The risk of subsequent substance use disorders is elevated, especially when conduct disorder or antisocial personality disorder develops. Individuals with ADHD are more likely than peers to be injured. Traffic accidents and violations are more frequent in drivers with ADHD. There may be an elevated likelihood of obesity among individuals with ADHD. Inadequate or variable self-application to tasks that require sustained effort is often interpreted by others as laziness, irresponsibility, or failure to cooperate. Family relationships may be characterized by discord and negative interactions. Peer relationships are often disrupted by peer rejection, neglect, or teasing of the individual with ADHD. On average, individuals with ADHD obtain less schooling, have poorer vocational achievement, and have reduced intellectual scores than their peers, although there is great variability. In its severe form, the disorder is markedly impairing, affecting social, familial, and scholastic/occupational adjustment.
Academic deficits, school-related problems, and peer neglect tend to be most associated with elevated symptoms of inattention, whereas peer rejection and, to a lesser extent, accidental injury are most salient with marked symptoms of hyperactivity or impulsivity.
If that doesn’t make it abundantly clear, nothing else will.

ADHD is a disability that impairs social development, and conversely, ADHD medications help to ameliorate these deficits, with an associated reduction in sequential negative consequences, social and otherwise.


Cheers,
Ian
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  #35  
Old 11-27-17, 02:37 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeon View Post
Mostly because ADHD is defined and specified in the DSM-V, which includes this section (emphasis added by me):



If that doesn’t make it abundantly clear, nothing else will.

ADHD is a disability that impairs social development, and conversely, ADHD medications help to ameliorate these deficits, with an associated reduction in sequential negative consequences, social and otherwise.


Cheers,
Ian
Ah, I think we are getting somewhere. I guess I don't have typical ADHD kids. I've wondered that from things I've read on here.

Since the medicine my son has A's and B's, so his school performance is back up. I still think my daughter has dyslexia but we will see what the testing shows. She is behind in her reading.

As for social things, they are both goofy, but people seem to like that at age 15 and 8. Both are in sports and both are leaders on their teams and have no problem talking to their coaches or teammates, and those people look like they like and even admire them. It seems everywhere we go he is high fivieng or bro-hugging someone, and she is squealing and hugging someone else.

I've gotten about 98 notes home from teachers talking about TOO much socializing during class, and about 2 because they did something against school policy. Now when my son got to middle school his notes went up but he wasn't diagnosed at that point. The co-taught classes where the teachers KNOW these kids are not fitting into the typical school box, has worked very well for him and I'm hoping to get my daughter into them soon.

So, I guess my kids aren't stereo typical ADHD?
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