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Old 02-03-18, 02:07 PM
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Questions about so called SCT?

According to Dr. Barkley, half the people who have ADHD have SCT, and, half the people who have SCT have ADHD.

If all people diagnosed with ADHD-Combined and ADHD-Predominantly Hyperactive/Impulsive have must have a certain number of hyperactive symptoms to meet the diagnostic criteria, and people who have SCT do not have any hyperactive symptoms.

Does that mean only people who have ADHD-Predominately Inattentive could possibly have so called SCT?

(I have more questions, but I will start with this question)







M
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  #2  
Old 02-03-18, 03:08 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
people who have SCT do not have any hyperactive symptoms
This assumption is not necessarily accurate. Some people who have SCT symptoms may also have hyperactive-impulsive symptoms.

For example, they may be fidgety (ADHD symptom) and also have trouble regulating alertness ("SCT" symptom), they may frequently interrupt other people (ADHD symptom) and also stare into space a lot ("SCT" symptom), etc.

There are some proposed "SCT" symptoms that would be difficult to show at the same time as ADHD symptoms, like hypoactivity and hyperactivity. I would guess that these particular symptoms would not coexist -- unless the person swings from one to the other without "normal" activity levels in-between. (Though I don't think this really fits the models of either ADHD or SCT -- it's more like bipolar disorder.) But other sets of symptoms, like the ones I mentioned above, are not mutually exclusive, and can coexist.

The criteria for "SCT" are not yet well established, and the level and nature of overlap with ADHD (of all presentations) remains unclear.
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Old 02-03-18, 03:11 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
According to Dr. Barkley, half the people who have ADHD have SCT, and, half the people who have SCT have ADHD.

If all people diagnosed with ADHD-Combined and ADHD-Predominantly Hyperactive/Impulsive have must have a certain number of hyperactive symptoms to meet the diagnostic criteria, and people who have SCT do not have any hyperactive symptoms.

Does that mean only people who have ADHD-Predominately Inattentive could possibly have so called SCT?

(I have more questions, but I will start with this question)


M
I only have one of the five hyperactive symptoms, but I have all four of the
impulsive symptoms.

I have all nine of the inattentive symptoms. I don't have an official diagnosis
but I would guess I'd be considered combined presentation.


There seems to be sixteen symptoms listed for SCT. I have at least half of the
symptoms on that list ... but I don't know how many I had before I developed
Fibromyalgia and a lot of the symptoms overlap between FM and SCT.


Found this on Wiki =
Quote:
Originally, SCT was thought to be restricted to about 1/3 of the inattentive subtype of ADHD and being apparently incompatible with hyperactivity.

But new research showed that SCT is also seen in some with the combined or hyperactive-impulsive subtype – and in individuals who do not have ADHD at all.
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Old 02-03-18, 04:04 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

mild, you are once again demonstrating you do not understand the difference between inclusion versus exclusion in regards to diagnostic criteria.

The multi-point description of SCT is inclusive, but not exclusive.


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Ian
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Old 02-03-18, 05:22 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeon View Post
mild, you are once again demonstrating you do not understand the difference between inclusion versus exclusion in regards to diagnostic criteria.

The multi-point description of SCT is inclusive, but not exclusive.


Cheers,
Ian
Yes.

Thanks.

I meant to ask you what you meant, and I forgot.

What do you mean?





M
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Old 02-03-18, 05:39 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

The description of SCT includes a suggested list of criteria.

But it does not exclude anything.

For example, a person with SCT could be, at times, hyperactive.

Which is why there is no way to know which 50% of those with ADHD might have it.

Inclusion rules in, but it does not rule out.


Cheers,
Ian
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  #7  
Old 02-03-18, 06:07 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

If SCT (or ADD) is the second attention disorder.

What is the first attention disorder?







M
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Old 02-03-18, 06:16 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
If SCT (or ADD) is the second attention disorder.
What is the first attention disorder?
If you're referring to Barkley's claim, he considers ADHD (in any of its presentations, with at least some symptoms of hyperactivity or impulsivity) to be one kind of attention disorder, and "SCT"/"CDD" to be another.

He seems to believe that ADHD is primarily a problem of executive function and impulse control, whereas that "SCT"/"CDD" is primarily a problem of regulation of alertness/arousal and sustained attention.

(Some people might argue that sustaining attention is an executive function, and/or that ADHD is also related to regulation of alertness/arousal and sustained attention. TygerSan made the point in another thread that the roles of impulse control vs. attentional processes -- and different types of attentional processes -- have been hotly debated since people started thinking about these things as disorders.)
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Old 02-03-18, 06:59 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by namazu View Post
If you're referring to Barkley's claim, he considers ADHD (in any of its presentations, with at least some symptoms of hyperactivity or impulsivity) to be one kind of attention disorder, and "SCT"/"CDD" to be another.

He seems to believe that ADHD is primarily a problem of executive function and impulse control, whereas that "SCT"/"CDD" is primarily a problem of regulation of alertness/arousal and sustained attention.

(Some people might argue that sustaining attention is an executive function, and/or that ADHD is also related to regulation of alertness/arousal and sustained attention. TygerSan made the point in another thread that the roles of impulse control vs. attentional processes -- and different types of attentional processes -- have been hotly debated since people started thinking about these things as disorders.)
Is SCT (or ADD) and CDD the same thing?






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Last edited by mildadhd; 02-03-18 at 07:00 PM.. Reason: Edit SCT (or ADD)
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Old 02-03-18, 07:03 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

"CDD" ("Concentration Deficit Disorder") is the name Barkley prefers to use for what other researchers have been calling "SCT" ("Sluggish Cognitive Tempo"). So yes, "CDD" = "SCT".
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Old 02-03-18, 07:36 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by namazu View Post
"CDD" ("Concentration Deficit Disorder") is the name Barkley prefers to use for what other researchers have been calling "SCT" ("Sluggish Cognitive Tempo"). So yes, "CDD" = "SCT".

Does ADD = CDD?




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Old 02-03-18, 07:46 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

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Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Does ADD = CDD?
Depends how you define "ADD".

The term "ADD" does not have an official, standard definition in DSM-5, so people use this term in different ways.

Some people consider "ADD" to be synonymous with ADHD-PI -- so, for adults, at least 5 "inattentive" symptoms from the ADHD diagnostic criteria, and up to 4 "hyperactive-impulsive" symptoms.

Some people think of "ADD" like a "restrictive inattentive" presentation of ADHD -- that is, at least 5 "inattentive" symptoms of ADHD and zero (or maybe 1 or 2, but no more) hyperactive-impulsive symptoms.

Some people do think of "ADD" like "SCT" or "CDD".
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Old 02-03-18, 08:28 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

I wonder if hypoactivity being associated with ADHD-PI is different than hypoactivity being associated with SCT?

I wonder if SCT symptoms are severe ADHD-PI symptoms (that do not qualify for ADHD-C)?





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Old 02-03-18, 08:59 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

What are the 6 attention disorders?

(Maybe if we consider the similarities and differences between all 6 attention disorders will help?)

1)ADHD
2)SCT (or ADHD-PI)
3)
4)
5)
6)




M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 02-03-18 at 09:11 PM.. Reason: Edit
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Old 02-03-18, 09:26 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

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Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
I wonder if hypoactivity being associated with ADHD-PI is different than hypoactivity being associated with SCT?
I don't know.

Hypoactivity is not among the DSM-5 criteria for ADHD-PI.

Still, some people who meet the criteria for ADHD-PI may also be hypoactive.

^-- That goes back to what Aeon was saying about inclusion vs. exclusion criteria. Inclusion criteria are things that contibute to making the diagnosis. Exclusion criteria are things that rule out a diagnosis. Hypoactivity is not one of the inclusion criteria for ADHD (since it doesn't count towards making a diagnosis of ADHD), but being hypoactive does not rule out ADHD, either (since you can be hypoactive and still meet the criteria for an ADHD diagnosis).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd
I wonder if SCT symptoms are severe ADHD-PI symptoms (that do not qualify for ADHD-C)?
That's a good question.

I don't think of ADHD-PI symptoms as separate things from ADHD-C symptoms, because people with ADHD-C have to have some of those same symptoms to qualify for diagnosis. They're ADHD symptoms that happen to come from the "inattention" category or domain or dimension.

Some people think of ADHD-PI (with at least some hyperactive-impulsive symptoms) as just a milder form of ADHD-C.

This model assumes that the more severe your ADHD, the more symptoms (especially hyperactive-impulsive symptoms) you'll have.

Other people think of the inattentive symptoms and the hyperactive-impulsive symptoms as two somewhat separate domains -- so that you could have very severe inattention and only mild (or no) hyperactivity or impulsivity, or vice-versa.

In that model, severity is more about the "strength" of the symptoms and/or the impairment caused by whatever symptoms are present, rather than by the number or type of symptoms involved. So someone with really extreme inattention could have more severe ADHD, while someone who just barely ticks all the boxes for ADHD-C could have a milder case of ADHD.

DSM-5 asks clinicians to rate severity based on a hybrid of symptom count (how many symptoms a person has) and degree of functional impairment (how much they're affected by the symptoms).

It is possible that some instances of "SCT"/"CDD" symptoms could represent extreme manifestations of inattention of some kind. Some of the "SCT"/"CDD" symptoms may be different in nature from what's seen in ADHD. There is ongoing research to try to sort out where there may be overlap or differences between the symptom sets for ADHD and "SCT"/"CDD". Throw in comorbidities like anxiety, mood disorders, autism, LDs, etc., and things get super-complicated.

Last edited by namazu; 02-03-18 at 09:37 PM.. Reason: clarification
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