wife withholding prescribed meds

[Vickie]

Hopefully, the med trial will be short and successful, and he can experience success and a much reduced level of conflict at school.

[ADDrus]

It's been a most frustrating day.

I called the school back and explained that we had a 50 50 agreement and that this was filed with them back in September when the whole school bus stop crap issue came up. I then told him I had no idea what was going on as I had been blind sided by his call and that she should not have been talking to them as the school should have called both of us and that she had no right to remove him from the school as it wasn't her custodial week.

The good news, if there is any good news in these situations, is that she is showing her true colors to the school administration. The principal is seeing plainly where the problem is.

The kid chokes another kid, gets sent to the office and then given an in school suspension. The punishment is overruled by the mom and she pulls him from school so he doesn't have to "suffer" and then she takes him out and buys him a Starbucks hot chocolate. I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried. I picked him up at his moms house after reminding her she was in violation of the court order and she had the sourest look on her face and S10 comes trotting out with a large Starbucks.

[MGDAD]

Choking another kids is a bit beyond impulsive. How does he feel after he does it. Does he feel guilty or that it was all the other kids fault? ie, no remorse?

[ADDrus]

He doesn't take responsibility. He doesn't express remorse and blames the other kids for the actions. Usually they did something first and he claims it was a reaction to their provocation.

He was standing in line this morning when the principal went to get him and he was pushing the other kids. I think that he gets into verbal conflicts that escalate quickly into physical confrontations.


No executive function means he's quick with inappropriate comments.


I really doubt he just went out into the playground, found a kid and started choking him.

[trishcan]

meds or not, disordered or not, any kid will act out if they don't face negative consequences. especially if that acting out prompts a sympathetic response from a parent.

i feel badly for this child. how confused he must be when he misbehaves, is given a consequence by one party (the school) and then has the behavior immediately reinforced by his mother.

even if the behaviors began because of impulsiveness, they will undoubtedly continue until both parents AND the school are consistent in their response. he has to know that no one is going to tolerate him being aggressive and inappropriate.

[ADDrus]

His mother will not likely change.

I need to help S10 to make better choices, despite this.

S10 explained to me that the child he had been accused of choking was one of a bunch of kids that had been aggressive towards him and he put him in an immobilizing karate hold that he learned in class. As he described it to me, it very well might look to a teacher as if he was choking the child. I can't say for certain if this is true or not. I wasn't at the school talking to the principal about it.

[ADDrus]

I spoke to S10's T tonight for about 25 minutes. Filled her in on the school issues and the negative self talk, suicidal utterances and got some good feedback. S10 is depressed and anxious. He is desperately trying to make friends and it's not working so he is getting more depressed. She says he needs to be treated for that and that may give him the focus he needs for the school work as his anxiety and depression is distracting him from everything else. She said she will call the school and I will have the peds doctor consult with her before the Dec 18 appointment that I have set. She says she doesn't see the impulsivity as being a big part of the problem. She is worried about his inability to take responsibility and the lack of consequences adds to this problem. She also has concerns around his plotting revenge for those he perceives have wronged him. She believes this is contributing to ongoing conflicts. Good feedback! She also feels that he will grow out of these problems as he really is a great kid. His peers will never be able to relate to him as he is, they just do not understand him. If he can get past his anxieties then the peers could find out who he is and she's convinced they will like him. She also ruled out bi-polar.

[*KJ*]

I follow this thread on every update, taking it in and learning from it. My martital situation is different, although there is some inconsistencies there...but more importantly I see a lot of similarities between our sons.

So just wanted to add my support and also mention, that what your son's teacher said about his anxiety versus impulsivity seems very much in line with my son.

The more we address his anxiety the better his mood becomes, and from this we've learned that his impulsivity really is for the most part poor choices of expression of his anxiety.

I feel bad the appointment isn't until 12/18...I wish you could get in there faster! But I do appreciate the milestone here!

Good luck with it all...you and your family are in my prayers!

[MGDAD]

OK ADD, that is great feedback from the teacher but only some of it. She ruled out bipolar?!?! I LOL'd at that one. She told you he will grow out of some problems?!?! She is not qualified to diagnose or even predict what will happen. On the other hand her other opinions seem relevant since she was not bashing and had a lot of good insight.

[ADDrus]

Sorry for the confusion, the T is for Therapist not Teacher. I'll try not to make that mistake again!

She's a professional Psychologist and specializes in children. She is qualified to rule out Bi-polar.

His teacher is good, not that good though!

[ADDrus]

Originally Posted by *KJ*

I follow this thread on every update, taking it in and learning from it. My marital situation is different, although there is some inconsistencies there...but more importantly I see a lot of similarities between our sons.

Thanks KJ, I hope you can take something from my posts and some good comes from what we both have to go through! Insert hug icon here!

Originally Posted by *KJ*

I feel bad the appointment isn't until 12/18...I wish you could get in there faster! But I do appreciate the milestone here!

I'm going to try to get in with the family doc first and see if he'll write a script earlier. I work in a company with a bunch of pharmacists and the chief pharmacist is researching antidepressants and anxiety meds and looking for study results with children under 12. I want to know what I'm talking about before I approach the doc.

Originally Posted by *KJ*

Good luck with it all...you and your family are in my prayers!

Thank you! Pray that my wife will support the antidepressant as he will have to take that daily. It's not like the ADD stims that you can start and stop. She must be on-board or I'll go to his school every morning if I have to.

[Yarrgh]

Originally Posted by ADDrus

Hi all,

I booked an appointment with my S9 ped dr and went to see her. She has seen my son for a number of years and he's been on Ritalin in the past. While he was on it, I saw a kid who could finally sit still and pay attention. My wife told the dr that there was no difference in him and that nobody had noticed any difference in his behavior. That was 4 yrs ago.

I talked to the dr and showed her the last 2yrs of school agendas for my son, gr 2 and gr 3. She immediately prescribed concerta based on my discussion of his behaviors, the evidence in the agendas his professional evaluation of ADHD and her knowledge of him.

I filled the prescription and brought it home. My wife took one look at it, then started raging at me over "how could I get a prescription when the dr hadn't even seen him". She also said he was not taking any medications until she had talked to the dr.

So now she's taken the meds away and is withholding prescribed medications.

I think this falls in the realms of child abuse and neglect, but I wanted to hear what you guys have to say. We're in Canada and I'm very close to a divorce, I've already got a lawyer on retainer who's familiar with my wifes NPD/BPD

Disclaimer: I didn't read the 10 other pages of this issue. kind of long.

Nevermind, originally wrote stuff which had already been addressed earlier, after I read some of this.

I'll just point some things out: removing ritalin is not equivalent to removing insulin from a diabetic. Diabetics die without their medication, we don't.

I would be really POed if a doctor diagnosed me without actually being physically present. That is a big no-no. Your wife may be troubled, but
I agree with her sentiment. Also, taking away the medicine, because it is not life threatening, and because unless the child is old enough to
give consent to medical treatments she actually does have the authority to do this, would not be considered child abuse.
Disagreeing with a doctor is not neglect, however, refusing to have the child to see a therapist even, or have any issues addressed is neglect.
But refusing that the child has anything wrong with them is really not unexpected from someone with NPD.

Anyways, this sounds really difficult. Good luck with everything, hope the kid isn't too traumatized by the end of it.

[ADDrus]

Originally Posted by Yarrgh

I'll just point some things out: removing ritalin is not equivalent to removing insulin from a diabetic. Diabetics die without their medication, we don't.

I think this depends on how you look at it.

Originally Posted by Yarrgh

I would be really POed if a doctor diagnosed me without actually being physically present. That is a big no-no. Your wife may be troubled, but
I agree with her sentiment. Also, taking away the medicine, because it is not life threatening, and because unless the child is old enough to
give consent to medical treatments she actually does have the authority to do this, would not be considered child abuse.

If a doctor diagnosed anybody without seeing that person then I agree, there is a problem. My son had been seen by the physician a number of times and for the same reason. This was a subsequent visit and I do not see anything wrong with the doctor’s procedure. His mother took away the meds 16 months ago. If my son had been on the meds for the last 16 months would he now be depressed and anxious? Now that he is depressed and anxious and uttering thoughts of suicide is that not life threatening? We both have equal authority as equal parents to the child. What happens if he decides that’s it and dies? Is that then neglect or abuse or just a tragic end to an unfortunate event that couldn’t really have been foreseen or prevented?

Originally Posted by Yarrgh

Disagreeing with a doctor is not neglect, however, refusing to have the child to see a therapist even, or have any issues addressed is neglect.
But refusing that the child has anything wrong with them is really not unexpected from someone with NPD.

I agree, its ok to disagree with a doctor and you should get a second and or third opinion, but if you have a number of health professionals all telling you in no uncertain terms what to do, and you still decide to do the opposite, then that would be negligent. You owe a duty or care as a parent to your children and the law will step in when it’s a direct life threatening situation. This is indirect and therefore exempt. NPD will manifest itself in many different ways. The key to them all is that the narcissist must get their fix of Narcissistic Supply. If that included creating a child with numerous health problems and repeated unnecessary visits to the doctors, then this is what they would do. They are irrational and unpredictable.

Originally Posted by Yarrgh

Anyways, this sounds really difficult. Good luck with everything, hope the kid isn't too traumatized by the end of it.

Thanks, it is really difficult and I appreciate your kind wishes.

[canukie]

A small stimulant dose did wonders for my son's low mood....check it out...I've read it elsewhere.

[Yarrgh]

Originally Posted by ADDrus

I think this depends on how you look at it.

If a doctor diagnosed anybody without seeing that person then I agree, there is a problem. My son had been seen by the physician a number of times and for the same reason. This was a subsequent visit and I do not see anything wrong with the doctor’s procedure. His mother took away the meds 16 months ago. If my son had been on the meds for the last 16 months would he now be depressed and anxious? Now that he is depressed and anxious and uttering thoughts of suicide is that not life threatening? We both have equal authority as equal parents to the child. What happens if he decides that’s it and dies? Is that then neglect or abuse or just a tragic end to an unfortunate event that couldn’t really have been foreseen or prevented?

I agree, its ok to disagree with a doctor and you should get a second and or third opinion, but if you have a number of health professionals all telling you in no uncertain terms what to do, and you still decide to do the opposite, then that would be negligent. You owe a duty or care as a parent to your children and the law will step in when it’s a direct life threatening situation. This is indirect and therefore exempt. NPD will manifest itself in many different ways. The key to them all is that the narcissist must get their fix of Narcissistic Supply. If that included creating a child with numerous health problems and repeated unnecessary visits to the doctors, then this is what they would do. They are irrational and unpredictable.


Thanks, it is really difficult and I appreciate your kind wishes.

The statements I thought had some logical fallacies which should be considered were apparently prematurely viewed out of full context, my apologies.