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  #16  
Old 01-01-10, 02:22 PM
Dizfriz Dizfriz is offline
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Re: My daughter has what?!?!

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Originally Posted by Imnapl View Post
Talking a lot is a form of hyperactivity.
Imnapl usually knows what she is talking about.

One of the criteria for diagnosing ADHD is "often talks excessively".

Mikaylas_Mommy, the more you know about ADHD the better advocate you can be for your child and the better you can deal with the schools.

I might suggest you explore this transcript of a workshop by Russell Barkley. Barkley is considered by most to be, by far, the top person in the field of ADHD. Many, including myself, consider this transcript to be the best write up on ADHD available on the internet. It is dated 2000 but most of the data is still basically pretty good. I do warn however that this is forty pages long and Barkley is information dense. It can be a bit of a struggle to work though so take your time. It is, in my opinion and in the opinion of many others, very much worth the effort. It has probably been of more help to the parents of ADHD children than any other thing I know. I am going to suggest you start with this overview and then download or read the article from there.

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/showarticle/2054

There are some essays on the subject at http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60130

They are not nearly as informative as the Barkley transcript but some have found them useful.

You have to the advocate for your child. If you are not then no one else will be and the child will fall between the cracks victims of indifference and lethargy. I have seen it all to often. Keep on plugging, ADHD kids can be a challenge to raise but usually turn out to be well worth the effort.

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  #17  
Old 01-01-10, 02:32 PM
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Re: My daughter has what?!?!

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Originally Posted by Mikaylas_Mommy View Post


Thanks I checked out the link and, going by the symptoms listed I do not think she has Dyscalculia. She knows how to do the math with no problem, she can ace one test but fail the other the has the same material. We do flash cards and I make it fun for her and she spits the answers off with ease.

I did read some tips online such as highlighting the sign(= - / and x) to where it stands out. This is supposed to help a inattentive, with paying more attention to signs and such since they make common mistakes by simply adding when should be subtracting. I emailed her teacher about it, so that maybe we can do that with tests. I don't think its any form of cheating its just different colors on her worksheets, so that the it stands out for her. I even volenteered to come to the school and do this to all of her worksheets so that it didn't take up the teachers time. I even offered to buy any of the highlighters, or extra supplies that would possibly help her.

I am hoping he will be as helpful with this matter, but I think a lot of teachers just want to medicate the kids. When we had our parent/teacher conference I explained I would have her tested, but I was not sure about putting her on medication. The teachers aid replied with "well I don't see the need in testing if your not going to medicate her". Boy was I mad with that comment! I said "well theres other options to try, before simply throwing pills down your kids throat!" My daughter has never been in trouble at school, or disruptive in the classroom so its not like she is taking up class time for a teacher to want her to be medicated.

I think I am going to give the medication until Monday, when the doctors office opens back up. If she has not adjusted by then, it clearly is the wrong medication. You can read my blog for all the side effects, or issues she is having if you want.


Thanks everyone for help and advice and links....The more I learn the better prepared I am for this journey!
what your teacher said is ANOTHER reason why medicating children for adhd is looked down upon by certain parts of society

with people saying things like that , you really cant blame them sometimes
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Old 01-02-10, 12:42 AM
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Re: My daughter has what?!?!

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Originally Posted by rickymooston View Post
Hi Mikaylas_Mom

I'm not going to say medicine is bad but I don't think medicatiuon as an immediate solution to your kids problem made sense. She had great marks in eveything else? Why not focus on why she is bored with math and what if any aspects of math she finds difficult.

You shouldn't have cried at the possibility you kid might have ADD; its far from the end of the world, even if some people don't understand it. Mostly, you should be proud you have a bright kid who has only problems in ONE subject.

I got a math degree and I apparently have unmedicated ADD without hyperactivity. Your kid could be me. I sucked at manual boring calculations and I still do. She had awesome grades in other subjects, she must be rather interested in. I can't tell you about meducation but it is only one approach. An alternative is to learn to channel her ADD to her advantage. I prefer the later but I'd didn't deal with my organization problems.

My suggestion is to talk to your kid. Ask her about what bores her with math!!! What does she understand? What doesn't she understand!!! She is only 7 and I assume you know 100% of what she is learning.

In addition, present it to her in a different visual way, if this is necessary. Getting a 100 percent on a test and then getting 40 indicates the test is boring her. Mindless memorization is boring You seem to have a bright kid. She probably can memorize but you might have to coach her alot and/or encourage her to do it to make it interesting. More important is mapping the mathematics to its meaning.

Here are some things I might suggest:
1) Examine the test. Does it involve any mapping of the math to reality? For example word problems? For some kids these are harder but they might in fact make the test more interesting for some. What
2) How much of the class is really relavant to her life? Does a summary of what is taught in class exist?

P.S. You post was kind of long in one huge chunk. Communication style seems to be important in dealing with ADD. Most of my tools have resolved around building good communication skills. Things that other people pick up naturally, we don't. Sometimes we have to be told. I'd immediately by a good book on effective communication. Active listening has improved my life a lot. Further more, your kid is naturally creative; she brains storms better than anybody. Getting her to learn to do that and use it to her advantage might be a great idea.
lol sorry I think I skipped a few things Mikayla was officially diagnosed and started adderall 12/30 but we went to the dr well before that and the doctor told me she was pretty positive Mikayla had inattentive ADD but couldn't officially diagnose until she had a Vanderbilt assignment from the school and parents.

From the point that the teacher told me he though she had ADD, we treated it as if she did. We started the ADD diet and supplements the very next day, due to I wanted to see if they made an improvement so that we never had to start medication.


We worked with her constantly on her math and hired a tutor outside of what we did at home. Mikayla is very very smart she knows how to do all math problems. The issue is the careless mistakes and not paying attention. She is actually ahead of her class in math....when she pays attention. When I work with her at home its a struggle, we may take 3 hours getting 20 mins worth of homework done. I do not mind that at all, the issue is at school the teacher can do not do this.


If Mikayla makes careless mistakes on her test, he can no say "Mikayla I don't think you paid attention here is your test go back and redo it" What she hands is is the final master piece there is no going back and redoing. It is not simply Mikayla has a C in math, Mikayla is literally failing she has a F.


So trust me I thought long and hard before deciding the medicate, as I didn't want to and still don't want to. In one of my blog entries I explained how one day doing homework Mikayla had to recount the same problem on her fingers 32 times, because she kept losing count. I can only imagine what school is like for her, if when doing homework she had to recount 1 problem 32 times. It kills me to think she has to struggle at all, I can imagine how frustrating it is to a 7 year old to have to recount that many times.

I went with Adderall as everyone including the dr says that with the Adderall you can do the "weekend breaks". I did a lot of research on how to help in the classroom and have tried working with her teacher on it but she is one of 25 kids in a classroom. I found information like highlighting the math sign in different colors (+ orange - blue / yellowed etc...) as that would not be a issue for tests or anything it just makes the sign stand out a little more.

I also read changing seats in the classroom where they are not around a window or door or anything they could stare at to easily lose focus. She sits at a table with 5 other students, so if one is tapping a pencil or moving their foot it throws Mikayla off.

I am not one of the parents that my child has to make a perfect A, I would be happy with a high D or a C as long as she was passing. My husband has the hyperactive form of ADHD, so we tried things that helped him during school with no luck.

If we get to the point where the medications are doing more bad then good (the symptoms are worse then the problem) We will stop the medication. If Mikayla ever tells me she doesn't want to take the medication we will also stop.

The 5mg of Adderall seemed to me that it was too much for her, so today I actually opened the capsule (Pharmacist said this was Okay) and poured half the medicine out and then gave it to her. It was basically 2.5mg of Adderall and this seemed to do the trick it worked without any side effects. We had her start on some math problems online, and she sat there for hours doing them. It was a rainy day outside, so she couldn't go play we offered for her to do other things but she was having fun with math! She aced all of them no problem! So I am thinking we found our dosage!

Thank you for the tips and advice like I said I am new so any input or anything to worked for a adult that they can explain I am willing to try to help her. She is only 7 so its hard for her to explain to us what helps her. That was the first question we asked and she said I don't know So input from adults seem to help!

I guess I should say I do not have a problem with medicating for ADD/ADHD I just don't think it should be the first thing someone does. I think that other approaches should be taken such as the diet and supplements or alternitive learning (I know this is not always possible in school) I cried to think my daughter had ADD because I was uninformed about it.


The only thing I knew at that time was, I had little cousins that had it. They did poorly in school and ended up dropping out as teens, they were zombies due to their medications and quite frankly they are a couple of steps away from prison! This is all I knew, but of course now after research I know that not all ADDERS are like this, their medications were either wrong or the dosage too much. Their mom didn't give a rats butt about their education or helping them just the SSI checks they brought in!
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  #19  
Old 01-02-10, 01:27 AM
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Re: My daughter has what?!?!

If you ask the school for an IEP, it can include your daughter sitting by herself instead of at a group table when she needs to concentrate. Of course she can be part of the group at other times.

My Autistic granddaughter was having so much trouble at the start of the school year that the teacher asked her if she would like to have her desk set inside "the quiet room" between the two special ed rooms. They could close the door to the other classroom and leave the door open to her room, so she was still part of the class but not distracted by all the noise and movement all the time. She was in there for almost a month, and then they transitioned her to a corner of the classroom with dividers around her desk. She could still hear the others but wasn't visually distracted. After another few weeks they were able to remove the dividers one at a time, and now she is fully integrated into the classroom and was doing well before the holiday break.

If they can go to these lengths for my granddaughter, then they can provide a corner for your daughter to take tests in relatively undisturbed. Some kids are allowed to take tests out in the hallway, or perhaps for tests they could put up dividers, or let her take them in the counselor's office. These are all things that have been done to accomodate kids with special needs. Check online for Wright's Law. I think they have some helpful information on working with the school and the teachers.
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  #20  
Old 01-02-10, 01:02 PM
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Re: My daughter has what?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikaylas_Mommy View Post
Mikayla is very very smart she knows how to do all math problems.


You need to separate the mechanical aspects of the math from the conceptual. I think, she is suffering from being taught the wrong way to approach it.

I believe what she might need to do is systematically memorize her tables. Because she has ADD, she needs to deal with things in context to each other. She is a high level thinker who needs to relate things to each other!!! Isolated details are "boring".

She needs systematic drills to memorize. Do it row by row, collumn by collumn, every single day.

Quote:
The issue is the careless mistakes


You will have to accept that she frequently makes careless mistakes and the question is only how to reduce their frequency.

Quote:
and not paying attention. She is actually ahead of her class in math....when she pays attention.


True!!! But the problem is, the way she is doing the math is not very efficient and thus requires more concentration than she can naturally do. Manual tasks are not natural to her but she has a perfectly good long term memory but she needs to build it up.

She is not paying attention because the math is boring. Its boring because either she knows she is poor at it or because she hates the details.

Buy her some head phones to use when writing tests or ask that she write the test in a different room. The scary part is how to do this without other kids bullying her but if she does this, she might even obtain A's in math. She can hyperfocus.

Quote:
When I work with her at home its a struggle, we may take 3 hours getting 20 mins worth of homework done. I do not mind that at all, the issue is at school the teacher can do not do this.
Negotiate with the school teacher to allow her to use her own personal multiplication and addition tables that she can trace with her fingers.

The sad thing is again, the details she has to work to learn are not particularly important but since the world is bottom up she has to learn them.

Quote:
If Mikayla makes careless mistakes on her test, he can no say "Mikayla I don't think you paid attention here is your test go back and redo it" What she hands is is the final master piece there is no going back and redoing. It is not simply Mikayla has a C in math, Mikayla is literally failing she has a F.
If you can get her to memorize her entire tables systematically and to use headphones or write a test in another room, she will get A's and B's.

Her understanding will always be that of an A student and she will have insights other A students do not have.

Quote:
Mikayla had to recount the same problem on her fingers 32 times, because she kept losing count.


This was her brain telling you that finger counting doesn't work for her. Essentially you are taking a left handed kid and forcing them to write with her right hand.

She has to memorize the tables.

The only value the fingers had to her was their abstract meaning. She knows this already.

Quote:
I can only imagine what school is like for her, if when doing homework she had to recount 1 problem 32 times. It kills me to think she has to struggle at all,


I can imagine her being a math professor with a ph'd in math but using a calculator to work out the low level trivial details. The question is whether society is going to force her to do those first. Mark my words, she may be publishing papers in 17 years!!!

I'm not exagerating by the way. 95% of math professors in fact suck at performing menial calculations!!! They compensated by learning the overall theory.

Here is a story and you can imagine the person in the story is your kid. His name was Gauss and its possible that he in fact may have been good at manual calculations but his approach was that of the ADD type whether or not he happened to have ADD. (Note: I independently came out with this approach and several others as a kid but I was only a "B" student.)

The teacher punished the class by forcing them to add all the numbers from 1 to 100. Only ONE kid succeeded.

His name was Fred. Fred was lazy like an ADD mind. He most definitely didn't want to torture himself adding all those numbers together. Instead, he had an insight. He reordered the numbers like this :

1 2 3 ... 50
100 99 ... 51

He realized if he did that, that each of those sums is 101 and that there are 50 sums.

He correctly computed the result to be (50)*101 which is
5050.

Nobody else got the right answer

Your kid could be Fred. The world will force her to try and add all those numbers up which is in fact a waste of time. However, if she can do the minimum possible to make the world happy in terms of the doing the manual, she will excel at doing the high level.

P.S. She will need simple logical systems to deal with "natural" things like getting organized. Prepare for a 10 years of helping her organize things into lists, etc, etc.

Once you understand how to speak her language, you can slowly teach her how to speak the language of the rest of the world. .

P.S. Ask her math. teacher what is meant by the phrase mathematicians are lazy.
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  #21  
Old 01-02-10, 02:05 PM
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Re: My daughter has what?!?!

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Originally Posted by Mikaylas_Mommy View Post
lol figured it would help with ADDers......My daughter doesn't have the issue with reading long passages.....She loves reading but I am assuming thats because it isn't boring to her its always a different story or different subject.....but with math its the same numbers over and over again! She is in 2nd grade and reading novels and autobiography's not fairy tales like most 7 year olds.
I did the same thing at that age. The way remember it, one day it felt like I knew how to read, but the text wouldn't make sense "jkdhfgsd", or something like that, then the next I was reading the Goosebumps books, by the time I was in fourth grade, I read the entire Harry Potter IV book in like 2 days (which is a huge book, even for many adults).

As long as it is interesting, it will probably be very easy for her. Watch out though, the impulsivity predisposes her to reading ahead in class, which often got me in trouble (especially in English/literature classes).

In response to previous posts, I too think I had similar experiences with math worksheets like you gave the example of. Her best work will probably be seen in a very novel situation, like an unusual testing place with a standardized test that has received alot of hype. I always did great on standardized tests, yet did mediocre classwork.

I do not recall any specific changes to myself when I too started meds at 7 ys/o. Although I started on Ritalin I soon changed to Adderal to eliminate the need to go to the nurse's to get midday meds.

I will say that meds helped me through school, but they were no substitute for typical discipline and responsibility for my actions. Remember, it helps, but does not solve normal childhood problems and social and ethical learning.

Feel free to ask further questions if you would like.

-Brad
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Old 01-02-10, 02:08 PM
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Question Re: My daughter has what?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickymooston View Post
[/color][/b]


The teacher punished the class by forcing them to add all the numbers from 1 to 100. Only ONE kid succeeded.

His name was Fred. Fred was lazy like an ADD mind. He most definitely didn't want to torture himself adding all those numbers together. Instead, he had an insight. He reordered the numbers like this :

1 2 3 ... 50
100 99 ... 51

He realized if he did that, that each of those sums is 101 and that there are 50 sums.

He correctly computed the result to be (50)*101 which is
5050.

Nobody else got the right answer
This reminds me quite a bit about why others have trouble understanding my analytical methods. Great story.
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Old 01-02-10, 11:43 PM
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Re: My daughter has what?!?!

As far as the charts each child in her classroom have them on their desk (well table taped in front of each seat) So she has her own charts right in front of her......The teacher said when they do tests he sets up dividers for every student so there should be no distractions during tests.....but for a ADD child ANYTHING can be a distraction....


I am actually debating on home school until its under control....My husband said middle/high school was kinda easier for him because he could control it more.....or maybe private school she goes to a small school now with only 1 2nd grade class and in that class there is 25 students....So it leaves very little 1 on 1 time for the teacher....We live in Florida and the law actually states no more then 17 kids per classroom but I guess when there is only 1 elementary school in a town they have no choice...


Also I am thinking it may be the school...When she was in primary school they had their homeroom teacher....then they had 1 extra curriculum class they went to each day....P.E....art....music....technology etc....With this school they don't even have a normal P.E. they go on the playground everyday for a little bit and call it P.E. so I am thinking maybe she is bored with sitting in 1 classroom ALL day long besides a half hour play time.....Her grades did not start dropping until this year every other year she was a A honor roll student.

So at the moment we are looking into private school or home schooling....its just private school is so darn expensive it is $300 per month.....thats not counting they do not provide transportion and we live 30 mins away so thats a hour round trip twice per day! But we are willing to try whatever helps our child.....She is a only child so we are worried with home school she will not have much outside contact with other kids.....


Anyone have any little girls in gymnastics....dance...ballet or anything of the sort? Wondering how they do with that because it would give her that peer to peer contact She is not interested in sports so we decided we may try the girly things to see how that works
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