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  #1  
Old 05-30-09, 02:47 AM
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Damn it...

Adderall hasn't done much for staying on task or getting started on things, and my concentration and thought patterns are still all over the place. Not to mention now when I take it I end up just wanting to curl up and take a nap.

Is it too soon to ask my psych for a higher dose?

Honestly, I'm on 450mg of wellbutrin AND Adderall and I'm still getting lethargic at random times....
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Old 05-30-09, 04:28 AM
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Re: Damn it...

You actually appear to be rather heavy on the Wellbutrin (buprion) and light on the Adderall to my admittedly "toleranced" eye'

You may be cursed with an atypical physiology. Were you taking the Adderall before you started the buprion? Two years ago I took buprion while I was taking my Adderall and found it profoundly sedating.

I know I shouldn't say this, but during this time I went out and had a couple of shots with a beer chaser. Knocked me on my a s s. I didn't know at the time what
was happening. I am not exactly a light weight. Not surprisingly I never had any difficulty drinking while taking stimulants -- as long as I was "topped up". ("Rebound" and alcohol -- not good...)

I also experienced some cognitive deterioration while taking the buprion. Noticeably my spelling worsened -- I am usually a rather good speller. I also experienced marked irritability which was not good in my work setting -- "Hotel Hell".

I am not a doctor -- nor do play one on television -- but I would suggest possibly discontinuing the buprion and seeing what happens.


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Originally Posted by Xeon View Post
Adderall hasn't done much for staying on task or getting started on things, and my concentration and thought patterns are still all over the place. Not to mention now when I take it I end up just wanting to curl up and take a nap.

Is it too soon to ask my psych for a higher dose?

Honestly, I'm on 450mg of wellbutrin AND Adderall and I'm still getting lethargic at random times....
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Old 05-30-09, 04:53 AM
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Re: Damn it...

Can I expect horrible withdrawal symptoms from discontinuing Wellbutrin as I did with venlafaxine (Effexor)? I really don't want horrible brain zaps again, that lasted like 2 or 3 weeks before it finally went away. And that's after I was tapering down slowly. I added the Adderall only recently....after she finally agreed I have ADD. She was about to prescribe me Straterra, but I quickly shot that idea down.

Ohh and I know exactly what your talking about with the alcohol thing, I drank about 2 beers and I was very intoxicated. Then the next 2 days I felt like absolute crap.
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Old 05-30-09, 09:46 AM
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Re: Damn it...

Your on a pretty low dose of adderall. It doesn't really help me until 20mg twice a day, but I tapered up to that. Your doctor is probably just trying to see how you react, its better to take less than too much. Too much and you'll get anxiety and jaw clenching and other not so fun stuff.

Don't give up on the Wellbutrin yet unless your doctor thinks so. That will help with the anxiety you might get from a bigger dose of adderall, as well as any crash.

I wouldn't recommend having more than a beer an hour on adderall, your mixing a depressant and a stimulant, which is just a horrible idea. Between every beer have water. I know socially that sounds a little weird, but I've /never/ had anyone notice. Part of that is since the adderall makes my pupils bigger people just think I'm on extasy when I go out, so ordering water is pretty normal.
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Old 05-30-09, 10:03 AM
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Re: Damn it...

I wonder how doctors can do what they do when we differ so much between each other. Those 2 days that you felt like "crap" after drinking the beers is a flag. It's an indicator of just how efficiently your liver and kidneys work. I have never had such an experience, period. (In a longer, often misspent life...) Sometimes I curse my genetic legacy. But at least I inherited a superior set of liver and kidneys...

Okay back to the subject at hand. Wellbutrin (buprion) is not a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor like venlafaxine. So there is no "selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor discontinuation syndrome" issues. But there have been reports of "discontinuation syndrome" issues for it nonetheless. Sigh. Just because I easily went off it without medical supervision doesn't necessarily mean you can -- or should. The moral is always have your doctor on board.

Y' know people who obsess about the side-effects and and dependency issues associated with Adderall should spend some time reading about the issues associated with commonly prescribed anti-depressants -- as I just did.
Adderall looks so much better! Strattera (atomoxetine) is actually a "selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor" like those antidepressants. Less effective than Adderall, with the side-effects associated with SSRI antidepressants. Nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon View Post
Can I expect horrible withdrawal symptoms from discontinuing Wellbutrin as I did with venlafaxine (Effexor)? I really don't want horrible brain zaps again, that lasted like 2 or 3 weeks before it finally went away. And that's after I was tapering down slowly. I added the Adderall only recently....after she finally agreed I have ADD. She was about to prescribe me Straterra, but I quickly shot that idea down.

Ohh and I know exactly what your talking about with the alcohol thing, I drank about 2 beers and I was very intoxicated. Then the next 2 days I felt like absolute crap.
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Old 05-30-09, 10:20 AM
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Re: Damn it...

Valid point. The higher Adderall dose in turn can compensate for the possibly sedating effects of the Wellbutrin. In my case the Wellbutrin really didn't justify itself. But for you it may well work. What can I say, this is more an art than science.

Y'know in all the time I have taken stimulant medication no one has said anything about my pupils. Probably says more about the people I associate with...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noesis View Post
Your on a pretty low dose of adderall. It doesn't really help me until 20mg twice a day, but I tapered up to that. Your doctor is probably just trying to see how you react, its better to take less than too much. Too much and you'll get anxiety and jaw clenching and other not so fun stuff.

Don't give up on the Wellbutrin yet unless your doctor thinks so. That will help with the anxiety you might get from a bigger dose of adderall, as well as any crash.

I wouldn't recommend having more than a beer an hour on adderall, your mixing a depressant and a stimulant, which is just a horrible idea. Between every beer have water. I know socially that sounds a little weird, but I've /never/ had anyone notice. Part of that is since the adderall makes my pupils bigger people just think I'm on extasy when I go out, so ordering water is pretty normal.
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Old 05-30-09, 11:21 AM
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Re: Damn it...

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Originally Posted by Retromancer View Post
Valid point. The higher Adderall dose in turn can compensate for the possibly sedating effects of the Wellbutrin. In my case the Wellbutrin really didn't justify itself. But for you it may well work. What can I say, this is more an art than science.
Yeah, I find this with my Cymbalta. My doctor even expected this.


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Y'know in all the time I have taken stimulant medication no one has said anything about my pupils. Probably says more about the people I associate with...
Haha, yeah. I've never taken any extasy or anything, but I'm a electronic music DJ so people are always inspecting me to see how messed up I am. Combine a dark room, with light sensitive eyes (my eyes stay diolated a lot anyways), and the adderall.. and it looks like I'm either on acid or x.
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Old 05-30-09, 02:20 PM
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Re: Damn it...

I found crystal meth and ecstasy both had less addictiveness then Pristiq/Effexor. At least when I stopped using both of those I just got depressed and lethargic for a while. Quitting Pristiq was harder then quitting those, brain zaps, inability to control body temperature, mood swings, and probably more side effects I don't remember. So what are the real addictive drugs here, the street amphetamines or the anti-depressants? I wouldn't condone using either crystal meth or ecstasy, how I avoided that horrible addiction cycle I will never know, maybe I didn't do them long enough. I just know I'm getting really irritated with the whole pharmaceutical route. Nothing seems to work, everything has horrible side effects, and discontinueing the medication is a *****.
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Old 05-30-09, 02:48 PM
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Re: Damn it...

The whole drug regulatory system is a political, pro-corporate creation...

One of my grievances is that MDMA -- ecstasy -- is classified Schedule I. Schedule I is where drugs like heroin are placed. There is no good medical reason for it to be there. It is personal because I know it has been used in Canada for the treatment of veterans with PTSD. I have a history of psychological trauma, therapy with this drug could very well be beneficial. But with a Schedule I classification it ain't going to happen here in the good ol' USA. (No I'm not going to buy it on the street -- you don't know what you're getting...)


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I found crystal meth and ecstasy both had less addictiveness then Pristiq/Effexor. At least when I stopped using both of those I just got depressed and lethargic for a while. Quitting Pristiq was harder then quitting those, brain zaps, inability to control body temperature, mood swings, and probably more side effects I don't remember. So what are the real addictive drugs here, the street amphetamines or the anti-depressants? I wouldn't condone using either crystal meth or ecstasy, how I avoided that horrible addiction cycle I will never know, maybe I didn't do them long enough. I just know I'm getting really irritated with the whole pharmaceutical route. Nothing seems to work, everything has horrible side effects, and discontinueing the medication is a *****.
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Old 05-30-09, 08:59 PM
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Re: Damn it...

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The whole drug regulatory system is a political, pro-corporate creation...

One of my grievances is that MDMA -- ecstasy -- is classified Schedule I. Schedule I is where drugs like heroin are placed. There is no good medical reason for it to be there. It is personal because I know it has been used in Canada for the treatment of veterans with PTSD. I have a history of psychological trauma, therapy with this drug could very well be beneficial. But with a Schedule I classification it ain't going to happen here in the good ol' USA. (No I'm not going to buy it on the street -- you don't know what you're getting...)
Yeah, usually its anything from a caffeine pill, pure meth, or very little MDMA at all.
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Old 05-30-09, 10:12 PM
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Re: Damn it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon View Post
I found crystal meth and ecstasy both had less addictiveness then Pristiq/Effexor. At least when I stopped using both of those I just got depressed and lethargic for a while. Quitting Pristiq was harder then quitting those, brain zaps, inability to control body temperature, mood swings, and probably more side effects I don't remember. So what are the real addictive drugs here, the street amphetamines or the anti-depressants? I wouldn't condone using either crystal meth or ecstasy, how I avoided that horrible addiction cycle I will never know, maybe I didn't do them long enough. I just know I'm getting really irritated with the whole pharmaceutical route. Nothing seems to work, everything has horrible side effects, and discontinueing the medication is a *****.
I used some drugs before starting treatment for ADD, that's actually how they figured this all out in the first place. My doctor says I was self-medicating, internist agrees ... now I just use legally perscribed stuff.

It's funny you draw this connection though, because I remember the first time I smoked weed this guy looks over at me sitting their dumbfounded and goes "after a while, all drugs just become like breathing air." I always remembered that, when I'd try new stuff I never expected the next time to be as good as the first... and actually that kept me off a lot of drugs because while I liked them, I never chased the first high.

At any rate, here we are now, with socially acceptable drugs to try and make us functional and normal.

It takes a lot out of me.
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Old 05-30-09, 11:28 PM
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Re: Damn it...

anyway, back on topic... I think on Monday I might complain about the dose not being very effective.
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Old 05-31-09, 04:17 PM
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Re: Damn it...

My guess is you have too much noradrelene and dopamine, as both raise these levels - and it is causing you to be tired and have an opposite effect. You see as my Dr. explained both potentiate/syergize eachother, upping the amounts of both chemicals. Also, I wouldn't drop taking the WB, as it takes a while to get back up to a good bloodlevel again - if it works for your depression (you see adderall is not a good AD because it is not long lasting and the crash can cause depression). My reccomendation would be to discuss w/your Dr. lowering the WB to 300mgs the theraputic dose and raising the AdderallXR w/an IR chaser. This should help.
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Old 05-31-09, 11:20 PM
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Re: Damn it...

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My guess is you have too much noradrelene and dopamine, as both raise these levels - and it is causing you to be tired and have an opposite effect. You see as my Dr. explained both potentiate/syergize eachother, upping the amounts of both chemicals. Also, I wouldn't drop taking the WB, as it takes a while to get back up to a good bloodlevel again - if it works for your depression (you see adderall is not a good AD because it is not long lasting and the crash can cause depression). My reccomendation would be to discuss w/your Dr. lowering the WB to 300mgs the theraputic dose and raising the AdderallXR w/an IR chaser. This should help.
Well I'm pretty sure my noradrenaline levels are way too high since I have major panic attacks a lot now. But I think my dopamine levels where below normal levels since I almost had no ability to feel happy most the time.
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Old 06-01-09, 12:03 AM
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Re: Damn it...

This is never an exact science and tweaking dosages (udner Dr's care) is normal. When you get to the point of the right WB dosage and right Adderall dosage - the two should balance out, likley the addition of Adderall threw what was formally a steady state off balance. Also, timing is important for WB too maximize the Adderall release. I'd wait roughly two hours into your first IR release before taking WB, then WB can do it's thing best by keeping the released dopamine and noradrelene in place longer by preventing it's reuptake. Finally, holding to a hard schedule should aid in the meds balance so you are getting benefit vs. side effects.
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