The vaping hysteria

[sarahsweets]

Its really ridiculous and infuriating. All of a sudden its war on vaping. The tobacco lobby is alive and well and tobacco still is one of the USA top crops. It kills like 400,000 people a year. I am an alcoholic in recovery and in the past 7 years I have lost 7 people directly because of alcoholism- not drugs.
I would go so far as to say that alcohol is more dangerous than vaping regulated approved vape products. I used to smoke 2 packs a day. I am down to half a pack. This is because of vaping. I am stepping down my nicotine with the hopes of quitting smokes for good. I do not like the tobacco flavored juices because they remind me too much of cigarettes which I am trying to quit. So I buy a berry flavored one. NJ is trying to ban all flavored juices...and so are many states. No one is saying that inhaling anything into your lungs is safe. Its about harm reduction.

Black market pot — not vaping — appears to be behind lung disease outbreak | Jacob Sullum - Chicago Sun-Times
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...3fe_story.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/vapi...roducts-2019-9

[namazu]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Its about harm reduction.

For adults trying to cut back on smoking, sure. (Assuming you know exactly what's in the juice you vape.)

But there's a HUGE market among teens who were not previously smokers, and flavored juices and slick delivery devices are a big part of the appeal. Vaping appears to be responsible for a large year-over-year increase in tobacco use among high school and middle school students -- which had previously been on the decline. (Full disclosure: One of the authors of that report was a colleague of mine.)

And the same Big Tobacco lobby that pushed cigarettes is partly behind it. (Altria and Phillip Morris International have made huge investments in vaping.) They know where the future lies, and their profits depend on getting new people hooked on vaping to make up for the middle-aged and older people they'll lose to tobacco-related diseases.

I don't think it's "ridiculous" to try to protect kids who are being groomed for addiction, though I can see why you, as an adult trying to quit/reduce your smoking and maintain your sobriety, find it frustrating and counterproductive to your goals. As to whether the bans will actually be effective in reducing uptake among young people, I guess that remains to be seen.

[meadd823]

Since when has banning any thing stopped it's use? To ban the legal sale of vaping juice won't,t stop it's production or use it will simply stop it from being legally and safely used.

I do agree with discouraging young people from picking up the habit however if consenting adults choose to vape, smoke, drink or swing they should be allowed to do so as long as they are not infringing upon the rights of others.

I get frustrated with the arrogance of those who take it upon themselves to dictate the behaviors of others. I am all for education on the risk of certain behaviors in this case vaping however part of freedom is risk , that risk should be the individuals decision

Personally I am glad I quit smoking before vaping became a thing. I enjoy not having to remember the items associated with smoking. I also enjoy the saving of $$$

[acdc01]

Originally Posted by meadd823

Since when has banning any thing stopped it's use? To ban the legal sale of vaping juice won't,t stop it's production or use it will simply stop it from being legally and safely used

Well, i remember looking at abortion rates once. The number of abortions before it was made legal were staggeringly less than after it was legal.

So yes, making something illegal would reduce use substantially though it would never completely stop it.

Would it make it less safe for the small number that still use it? Abortions were way deadlier before they were made legal.

But i dont think vaping would follow the same trend in terms of safety. Where sarahsweets lives, its just NJ thats proposing to restrict vaping. People could still buy it in nearby states that really arent that far away.

There will probably still be an illegal market which probably is a littlr more dangerous. But they could always just buy the stuff in the nearby state and then sell it inside nj.

I personally think its worth a shot even though im not certain whether itll really work or not. I do think the kids in school should take precedence over the adults that are already addicted to nicotine and using vape as a transition

Perhaps it could be a medically controlled substance where the adults can still get a prescription for the vape.

[Andi]

I'm not sure I can compare vaping to abortion. One is a vice and the other...well, no desire to go into a debate on the topic but I will def hope it's not a vice.

To Sarah's point, we have hundreds of thousands of people die from tobacco and alcohol so we put warning labels on cigs to say...hey there, you could die. I'm suspicious of the real reason for banning it and it has been clearly tied to THC vaping. I get the whole teens are doing it but teens do cigarettes and alcohol as well. Alcohol way more than anything else. We have laws, we have regulations...I get we don't want teens to do it but no matter what you do if there's a will there's a way. If you make it illegal you create more criminals because they will go underground or circumvent the law. You can have a war on drugs, on alcohol on any vice...I think we can all see that it's an unwinnable war when humans still want to engage in it. The moto for some for decades has been..Death be damned bring it on!!

I don't know if anyone is aware that we're putting people out of business as well.

Sarah, I applaud you for trying to stop and hope someday you can. It was and still is a battle for me some days, especially when I'm stressed. And man, a good whiff of smoke and oh boy do I crave it.

[TygerSan]

In my opinion, there’s a difference between an adult vaping, either in order to quit smoking or just in place of smoking, and a teen buying cotton candy vape juice because its at the convenience store at the checkout counter.

I get that teens are teens and restricting access isn’t going to prevent the issue entirely, but it’s about creating a deterrent, a barrier. Teens are impulsive. Vapes were easy access (as opposed to cigs which require a little bit more ingenuity to obtain underage), and “cool.” I don’t mind regulation that slows their roll a little.

[Kunga Dorji]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Its really ridiculous and infuriating. All of a sudden its war on vaping. The tobacco lobby is alive and well and tobacco still is one of the USA top crops. It kills like 400,000 people a year. I am an alcoholic in recovery and in the past 7 years I have lost 7 people directly because of alcoholism- not drugs.
I would go so far as to say that alcohol is more dangerous than vaping regulated approved vape products. I used to smoke 2 packs a day. I am down to half a pack. This is because of vaping. I am stepping down my nicotine with the hopes of quitting smokes for good. I do not like the tobacco flavored juices because they remind me too much of cigarettes which I am trying to quit. So I buy a berry flavored one. NJ is trying to ban all flavored juices...and so are many states. No one is saying that inhaling anything into your lungs is safe. Its about harm reduction.

Black market pot — not vaping — appears to be behind lung disease outbreak | Jacob Sullum - Chicago Sun-Times
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...3fe_story.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/vapi...roducts-2019-9

It is clear now that there is a real incidence of people developing severe destructive lung disease after a reasonably short time vaping.

It seems to be quite rare, but it comes on decades earlier than smoking related lung disease.

I guess we just have to wait and see, and be as cautious as we can.

[psychopathetic]

I'm going to make enemies here.../sigh
But I've always been against vaping and am glad it's starting to gain a major bad rap finally.
I get that it helps people cut back on smoking cigarettes...and I try to be supportive...but deep down inside, I feel like smoking is smoking.
I've got over 9 years smoke free...if I started to vape today (not happening! I love my quit!!) I'd feel like I completely lost my quit. Even though I wouldn't be smoking cigarettes, I'd still be smoking.

I'm sorry for anyone who this upsets
But I've never liked the idea of vaping/e-cigs.

[Andi]

When my son and hub started doing vape just for the juice (they stopped), no nicotine, they would try to get me to do the taste and I was...no. The inhale is what I crave. That sense of relief it use to give me. It would have been only a matter of time before I would pic up a cig again. It's great if it works for some...

Psycho I have 11 years smoke-free, I'm proud of you for your 9+.

[acdc01]

Originally Posted by Andi

I'm not sure I can compare vaping to abortion. One is a vice and the other...well, no desire to go into a debate on the topic but I will def hope it's not a vice.

Not trying to say they are the same. They are of course not. Just trying to say that when you make something more difficult to obtain/illegal, the usage numbers will natturally go down.

The end of prohibition saw the same trends. Alcohol consumption went down to like 30% of what it was before prohibition. After a while, it went back up to 70% what it was before so still 30% less users by making it illegal. It's not about whether usage numbers will go down- they will. The question is whether the cost of making something illegal is greater than the benefits from it.

The answer with prihibition was clearly yes. he cost was too great for the little benefit received since organized crime ran amok.

I don't think that would happen with vaping. I don't see dangerous products being released because they were manufactured illegally. They probably just bought their profuct legally from some other stste. I don't see a growth in rampant, violent organized crime.

You can make vaping something that needs to be medically approved by a doctor is you still want to allow some adults in need to get it.

I see very little cost and I'm not seeing a huge reward either, but some.

[Funky1]

From what I personally have read and heard, the majority of the injuries and deaths associated with vaping have been due to Black Market cannabis Vapes. Whether or not that's true remains to be seen, but I can say from personal experience that vaping got me off of cigarettes. I was a pack a day smoker for the better part of twenty two years, and now I don't touch the damn things. So it has its benefits, but it definitely has its drawbacks. As does anything these days. I do think there's a lot of misinformation out there, and I think the tobacco industry is behind a lot of it. They're losing money, and so they're on the offensive. My only advice is to do your research, and don't buy anything from a non reputable dealer.

[Rebelyell]

I don't think anything you inhale is really safe or can he made 100 percent safe..the chemical I believe is acetyl or dicetyl.which is the ingredient in popcorn butter that causes irreversible lung damage known as popcorn lung. propylene/ ethylene glycol is toxic too and that's in vape juice.

[acdc01]

Originally Posted by Funky1

From what I personally have read and heard, the majority of the injuries and deaths associated with vaping have been due to Black Market cannabis Vapes. r.

Wow, I didn't know about that. If it were true, then yes it would be a bad idea to make it illegal. But yes, it is hard to know what media is real and what was funded by the tobacco companies that sound like they invested in vaping as well.

[Rebelyell]

I can understand the backlash from big tobacco getting it's profits cut in on n taken.

[sarahsweets]

Its just hypocritical. Governments still make $$ from tobacco crops and they still prop up some southern agricultures. I think its like 300,000 a year die or get ill from smoking and they keep it legal. As an alcoholic who has had many deaths from alcoholism in a short period of time alcohol is definitely a non-necessity and can be lethal. But all of a sudden vaping is a crisis? Ban all of them if the true intent is health. People will still find a way to get what they need. But dont pretend its for the health of people and continue to profit off of cig, lottery and alcohol sales.
(https://nypost.com/2019/10/25/people...related-panic/)