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  #1  
Old 11-19-17, 07:11 PM
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Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

We have always been told that ADHD was due to bad parenting, and then the scoffers have usually denied the existence of the condition.


The following podcast is well worth listening to. The speaker has an enormous amount of experience in the field.



Check out: drrobertmelillo dot com to learn more about him.


https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/functional-neurology-minute-podcast/id1227622512?mt=2&i=1000392670823



Look at Podcast no Nine.

At about 32 minutes he talks about the "adverse childhood experience" study and the poor life outcomes associated with it.


The 12.5% who had 4 or more adverse experiences there was a 400% increase in a large range of serious illnesses and about a 20 year decrease in life expectancy- multiple causes.
However they did not have a significantly higher rate of addiction. The cause was abnormal neurodevelopment, secondary to the emotional trauma- impacting on abnormal regulation of the autonomic system.

from about 35 minutes:


Dr Mellilo's findings in a very large population of ADHD, autism, OCD, Tourettes etc patients (tens of thousands) is that virtually none of us have adverse childhood experiences but virtually all of us have the same kind of abnormal neurodevelopment and that led dysregulation of the autonomic nervous system (inability to balance stress and relaxation responses- and THAT leads to all these illnesses and to early death- just the same as in the ACE study group.





At 35:57 Mellilo reviews schizophrenia and notes that though the disease does not show up until they are in their 20's there is evidence from childhood videos of abnormalities in motor development even under 6 months. He then goes on to say that the same also applies for ADHD,

So the good news is that ADHD is not caused by bad parenting. The bad news- it plays havoc with our stress system and if we don't deal with that it will cause ill health.
The other good news though- is that interventions that improve those stress responses are improving every day.


I have 2 ADHD children, I have ADHD.This information here is very high quality and I feel delighted to be able to lift the guilt feeling on that one.




So point 1- it is nice to know that we have no reason to blame parents of ADHD children for their state. This is really a huge break- it has been the standard accusation made against parents fora long while.
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Old 11-20-17, 10:18 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

I'm new to all this, only about 2 years into it, but I never thought my kids ADHD was due to bad parenting. It's a medical condition, plain and simple.

Now the symptoms of ADHD...yeah...my ex husband told me the boy was just being lazy and I was too easy on him and ADHD is a fake thing...etc....but he's an idiot lol!
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Old 11-23-17, 08:51 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I'm new to all this, only about 2 years into it, but I never thought my kids ADHD was due to bad parenting. It's a medical condition, plain and simple.

Now the symptoms of ADHD...yeah...my ex husband told me the boy was just being lazy and I was too easy on him and ADHD is a fake thing...etc....but he's an idiot lol!
You can't treat stupid.
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Old 11-24-17, 05:44 PM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

I love the wifi connection analogy, between the parent and the infant child, made by the doctor in the podcast.






M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 11-24-17 at 05:58 PM.. Reason: Removed the slightly off topic discussion
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Old 11-25-17, 02:55 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

So the wifi connection can be interrupted because 1)inherited hypersensitive temperament, and 2) implicit PTSD (due to inherited hypersensitive temperament and early individual circumstances)?










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Old 11-25-17, 08:58 PM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

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Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
So the wifi connection can be interrupted because 1)inherited hypersensitive temperament, and 2) implicit PTSD (due to inherited hypersensitive temperament and early individual circumstances)?


M
Not only between parent and child.
If your nervous system is not in an even state of relaxatin and activation you will misread social cues, you will feel uncomfortable where others do not.

A good example- we went to a school reunion day yesterday. It was hot and thundery. The sort of conditions that often make me feel sweaty, and maybe a little faint.
I noticed 2 women sitting calmly manning a stall chatting- in perfect repose.

My system has not allowed me to do that until very recently- like last week.
I need to be up and about because the struggle to maintain blood flow to my brain is best resolved by moving.

Consequently I'm lousy at small talk- I can never sit still long enough to learn that technique!. (My set up for being on the computer is very specific and well planned).

I found this yesterday-- just fascinating. Remember that stimulants help support cerebral blood flow.
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Old 11-25-17, 11:25 PM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

My ACE score is a strong 5 or a weak 6 depending on how one interprets the questions.

Does that just make me an abberation in the statistics?
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Old 11-26-17, 05:21 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

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Originally Posted by amberwillow View Post
My ACE score is a strong 5 or a weak 6 depending on how one interprets the questions.

Does that just make me an abberation in the statistics?
No, not at all.
It is not that there is no association between trauma and ADHD, just that the majority of children assessed in Dr Mellilo's clinics (many thousands) do not have a history of trauma sufficient to explain their learning disabilities.

If you listen to the whole podcast (and I strongly recommend it) Mellio actually says that ADHD predispose to emotional trauma.
The reason for that is very simple- with the functional disconnections and difficulty in stabilising our system we are often not in a position where the physical signs we are giving off indicate that we are "safe" to be with.

Stephen Porges' "Somatic Perspectives" series on this is well worth reading- it is not easy to explain in any simpler format.
[Broken link removed. -Namazu]

a quote:
Quote:
If a client is tightly wrapped with tense muscles and a highly activated sympathetic nervous system, the client is conveying this state of defensiveness to others. A state characterised by tense muscles and sympathetic excitation is an adaptive state that prepares an individual to move or fight. This state unambiguously conveys to others that it is not “safe” to be in proximity with this person.
That unfortunately is the true effect of ADHD body language on the way others unconsciously "read"us. That is hardwired in and all we can do is learn to become better at regulating NOT the hyperactivity, but the underlying nervous system state that generates it.

However, for the majority of people with ADHD that hyperactivation sets up a lot of rejection and unhappy social experiences and many traumas.
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Science advances --one funeral at a time.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

both by:
Max Planck: Nobel Prize 1918 for inventing quantum physics.


Last edited by namazu; 11-27-17 at 01:13 PM.. Reason: PDF link was dead, so removed it. Links to commercial websites (including those of doctors) are prohibited.
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Old 11-26-17, 05:33 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

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Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
So the wifi connection can be interrupted because 1)inherited hypersensitive temperament, and 2) implicit PTSD (due to inherited hypersensitive temperament and early individual circumstances)?



M
No- the "wifi connection" is disrupted because of one form or another of brain trauma. The neck issues that I have talked about are certainly one.
There is increasing evidence that various toxins may also cause issues.

Now once there are difficulties with communication within the brain perception and balance are distorted, and it becomes harder to regulate blood flow to the brain.
Both the perceptual distortions and the sympathetic response to the lowish brain blood pressure cause the hypersensitivity. I don't think there is any reason to posit an inheritable "hypersensitive temperament. The sensory distortions seen in ADHD (sensory processing disorder) do not represent a trait that offers survival advantages.
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Science advances --one funeral at a time.

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Old 11-27-17, 09:57 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

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You can't treat stupid.
No, you can't treat stupid...but you CAN divorce him
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Old 11-28-17, 11:48 PM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I'm new to all this, only about 2 years into it, but I never thought my kids ADHD was due to bad parenting. It's a medical condition, plain and simple.

Now the symptoms of ADHD...yeah...my ex husband told me the boy was just being lazy and I was too easy on him and ADHD is a fake thing...etc....but he's an idiot lol!
In fact the "Its all just trauma" approach is commonest in the "ADHD deniers", who are still a significant group with more influence than they are intellectually entitled to.
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Science advances --one funeral at a time.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

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Old 11-29-17, 01:06 PM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

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Originally Posted by Kunga Dorji View Post
In fact the "Its all just trauma" approach is commonest in the "ADHD deniers", who are still a significant group with more influence than they are intellectually entitled to.
Who is saying, “ it’s all just trauma”.

It is you who is saying there is no epigenetically inherited temperament involved.

Chemical exposure to toxins like cigarette can be epigenetically inherited 3 to 5 generations.

That information should help ease the immediate blame game, which I think is part of the purpose of this thread?

There are a group of people who have inherited a more sensitive temperament and also experienced implicit PTSD, and there are even people that only experienced implicit PTSD, that also need to be included in the discussion.

I am constantly learning from you, but I disagree on these specific topics.










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Old 12-03-17, 04:13 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

Parenting is not to blame for ADHD.

Attuned parenting is the best way to help treat a ADHD temperament.







M
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Old 12-03-17, 11:12 PM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

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Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Who is saying, “ it’s all just trauma”.

It is you who is saying there is no epigenetically inherited temperament involved.

Chemical exposure to toxins like cigarette can be epigenetically inherited 3 to 5 generations.

That information should help ease the immediate blame game, which I think is part of the purpose of this thread?

There are a group of people who have inherited a more sensitive temperament and also experienced implicit PTSD, and there are even people that only experienced implicit PTSD, that also need to be included in the discussion.

I am constantly learning from you, but I disagree on these specific topics.


M
Have you listened to the podcast yet? It is really important.


There are a number of points to the thread. The first is to highlight that the patterns of brain dysfunction in ADHD are very similar to the patterns seen in emotional trauma, but in the experience of a clinician with a very large patient base and a very systematic approach to patient registration and assessment- he observes that few of the children with ADHD have a history of emotional trauma. (That comes later after 5-10 years of trying to survive in school with it).

While developmental psychology is important, it is observable that very few of its proponents have any awareness at all that there is this "trauma look alike" that is probably making up more than half their work.

Now take Gabor Mate for instance. despite his very sensitive behavioural observations of ADHD he is firmly glued on to the trauma model of causation. However- if that is his model- he will not be able to come up with useful interventions that undercut the neurological basis of ADHD. Mellilo can.

Equally, many of those who assert that ADHD is really just childhood trauma are strongly against stimulants- so these things do need to be teased out.

A "sensitive temperament" should be a survival advantage and it should also predict parents who have the same temperament and therefore should be better at managing their child's distress.

The autonomic mechanisms in ADHD are important but they stem from other areas (especially vestibulocerebellum), and are not trauma driven.

What is actually happening is that the brains sensors (baroreceptors in the main arteries, and proprioceptors, and balance receptors are not supplying correct information to the cardiovascular system to tell it how to tighten up the vessels to allow for sitting without lack of brain oxygen.

Calling it dysautonomia is a bit of a misnomer. What is happening is that the sympathetic system kicks in and drives more blood uphill, but at the expense of causing a more generalised stress response- which contributes many ADHD symptoms. However the autonomic system is doing its job perfectly. Finally its capacity is exceeded and a muted freeze/faint response kicks in any you end up vague, tired grumpy.

So- the autonomic system is actually working well and traditional attuned parenting (which might emphasise helping the child sit up and do their home work and carry on regardless of the internal chaos) is actually unhelpful in that it is not addressing the problem, and wrongheaded as well, because it is forcing someone with a dysfunctional system to continue operating in a way that is causing them a severe stress reaction.
While it is great to be able to keep it together and operate when severely stressed- that should be a short term solution, not something you do all day every day.

The problem is to all intents invisible (though I guess this will change as this new information spreads).

The consequences of toughing it out and learning to demonstrate externally desirable behaviour are, in the long term very serious damage to your health. After awhile you no longer realise that you are stressed- its just that you hate sitting for long, you find people often annoying, your fingers have been cold that you have forgotten that it is abnormal, you get palpitations, your bowels give you trouble, you gain weight.

We know for sure now that a variation of this sort of dysfunction precedes rheumatoid arthritis and probably causes it.

Years and decades of being in sympathetic dominance has knocked me around very badly- though thankfully, I am now winning!.
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I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

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Old 12-04-17, 02:18 AM
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Re: Is parenting to blame for ADHD? Finally a clear and hard NO

Yes I listened to the podcast at least 5 times, so far.

I am also listening to the audiobook, “Disconnected Kids”, by Dr Melillo.

Thanks very much for introducing me to the information.

Like I said, I love Dr Melillo’s wifi connection and wifi disconnection analogies.

I would like to discuss more about the topics when I finish the audiobook.

So far I do not notice much difference between Dr Melillo’s and Dr Mate’s perspectives.














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