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  #16  
Old 11-16-17, 04:24 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

ADHD is 24/7/365...so a person with ADHD is disabled in *every* situation in life, in *every* context...because that is the nature of a neurodevelopmental disorder that causes disability across life domains.

In some situations the negative consequences will be less meaningful, and in some they will be more so...but one thing is consistent...they are *always* there.

Combined with the demonstrated neural remodeling and plasticity that occurs with dextroamphetamine, you had better believe meds would be daily were I a parent of a child with ADHD.

I’m not, so you can dismiss this without prejudice if you so wish.

My sense is that too often, parents judge the need for meds based on performance in a measured metrics environment...school being the primary one.

That said, the situations without metrics - friendships, family dynamics, becoming a member of a team, of a community, working toward self-directed goals of growth and pleasure, i.e., not scheduled...all these things are just as important, if not more so, when considering the totality of the life arc...and to be sure, ADHD is life-long.

Without early intervention with meds, we see the statistics of automobile accidents, unwanted pregnancies, drug addiction, and so on. Who wants those things for their child?

Of course, people will do what they like, as is their right.

But I will say this...I can only dream, I can only imagine what my life would have been, could have been, had I been medicated as a child.


Cheers,
Ian
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  #17  
Old 11-16-17, 06:53 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I'm with Sarah....commend is a word I don't get in this context.

Is that like I commend you for not giving your child glasses to see the board, allowing the eyes time to attempt to auto correct is important?

ADHD doesn't auto correct. Why put a kid at a disadvantage?
There is nothing commendable; please, reconsider this.
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  #18  
Old 11-17-17, 01:26 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

you'd definitely have found my parents praiseworthy then...i was diagnosed at eight but didn't take adhd medications until my teens.

largely because of the stigma my european parents felt. i went through no less than ten different primary schools as a result.

i did develop as a cross country athlete. but that kinda doesn't matter when you can't stay in the same school for more than a semester.

you know what else sucks? you don't just "learn coping skills" so you can survive without meds. on the contrary, any and all coping skills i learned, i was able to process and execute ONLY because i was medicated enough to learn and execute anything successfully.

but, really, i'm replying because you gave some horrible advice at the end. getting a job is NOT going to suddenly resolve your adhd issues. it's going to make them worse and you're going to fail in another arena of life. exactly what kind of job with actual responsibility do you think is compatible with unmedicated adhd? i hope it's not one where you have to organize, manage your time, follow complex instructions, pay attention, drive, operate any sort of machinery, have situational awareness, be responsible for the care/welfare of another human...etc, etc, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meret96 View Post
I need to tell you, I commend you SO much for trying to keep him off of meds for so long. I was put on medication in 3rd grade and i still wish i had been able to learn to cope with it first. I think what you are doing is very admirable. You could definitely look into an ADHD coach who can teach different learning tools to help learn to cope with it. If you think you need medicine again there's no shame in it. Sometimes there's really nothing you can do. Just make sure to go to an ADHD specialist instead of the pediatrician if you can. They help immensely and just know so much more about the drugs and what works for each specific child. It's the difference between being put on a wrong drug and struggling for years and actually learning how medicine can work with you instead of controlling you. Just listen to your child as well and ask him those questions you need to know about how he's doing on the medicine. (Also don't listen to the doctors if they try to make him stay on it during the summer, I found that was my most important time to try and learn how I act when I'm not on medicine and what feels right for me. That way there's a path for someday using it minimally or even getting off of it. When he gets older, a job in the summer is also a super helpful way to learn to work and cope without medicine since its not 4-6 classes piled on you at the same time but still has responsibility and deadlines.)
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  #19  
Old 11-17-17, 03:39 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeon View Post
ADHD is 24/7/365...so a person with ADHD is disabled in *every* situation in life, in *every* context...because that is the nature of a neurodevelopmental disorder that causes disability across life domains.

In some situations the negative consequences will be less meaningful, and in some they will be more so...but one thing is consistent...they are *always* there.

Combined with the demonstrated neural remodeling and plasticity that occurs with dextroamphetamine, you had better believe meds would be daily were I a parent of a child with ADHD.

Im not, so you can dismiss this without prejudice if you so wish.

My sense is that too often, parents judge the need for meds based on performance in a measured metrics environment...school being the primary one.

That said, the situations without metrics - friendships, family dynamics, becoming a member of a team, of a community, working toward self-directed goals of growth and pleasure, i.e., not scheduled...all these things are just as important, if not more so, when considering the totality of the life arc...and to be sure, ADHD is life-long.

Without early intervention with meds, we see the statistics of automobile accidents, unwanted pregnancies, drug addiction, and so on. Who wants those things for their child?

Of course, people will do what they like, as is their right.

But I will say this...I can only dream, I can only imagine what my life would have been, could have been, had I been medicated as a child.


Cheers,
Ian
Ian, I wanted to address the bolded part above. I absolutely used school as my stick so to speak on if to medicate my kids because it was their that their actions were deemed not okay.

I am okay with my kids being immature, that is who they are and I love them. However, on the meds or off my kids are not going to pick up social cues, it's just not in them. And in normal circumstances they don't have to sit still or pay attention for 45 minutes, so I didn't see the point in medicating them. I kind of just want them to be themselves outside of school. School has severe rules and consequences and if I want them to get an education they MUST be medicated there.

Why medicate outside of a construct like school? I should also add my son is inattentive and my daughter is hyper but SUPER attentive. I'm thinking lawyer because man can she find a loophole in your logic faster than you can spit!
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  #20  
Old 11-17-17, 04:12 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
Ian, I wanted to address the bolded part above. I absolutely used school as my stick so to speak on if to medicate my kids because it was their that their actions were deemed not okay.

I am okay with my kids being immature, that is who they are and I love them. However, on the meds or off my kids are not going to pick up social cues, it's just not in them. And in normal circumstances they don't have to sit still or pay attention for 45 minutes, so I didn't see the point in medicating them. I kind of just want them to be themselves outside of school. School has severe rules and consequences and if I want them to get an education they MUST be medicated there.

Why medicate outside of a construct like school? I should also add my son is inattentive and my daughter is hyper but SUPER attentive. I'm thinking lawyer because man can she find a loophole in your logic faster than you can spit!
Fraser mentioned the other day having withdrawal symptoms after missing
just one dose. We know that coffee, also a stimulant, can cause withdrawal
symptoms when decreased or stopped.

ADHD is already causing inconsistency in our lives, why add to that by being
able to focus during the week, or during the school year, and then struggling
to focus and feeling negative withdrawal symptoms the rest of the time.

Even though I only take Omega 3 to treat my ADHD, if I miss more than two
daily doses I notice the brain fog, the difficulty with social/family interactions.
I can't believe I lived that way for so many years.

Maybe without any influence from you, ask your kids if they want their meds
every day or if they're good with a meds vacation.
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  #21  
Old 11-17-17, 09:38 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

I'd urge people to refrain from speaking in absolutes. The decision to medicate is complicated. Here are just a few things that I think could be helpful to think about:

1) Your son is going to be a teenager soon. The decision to medicate will be a delicate balance between the parent, child, and doctor. The conversation so far has been so dominated by the parental perspective. What does your son think? How did your son feel when he was medicated, and how does he feel now? Does he resent having to take medication, or is he indifferent?

2) How is his physical growth and appetite? Stimulants can reduce appetite in some children, leading to slowed physical growth. That was the main impetus behind med holidays.

3) To be diagnosed with ADHD, it has to negatively affect more than one area of life functioning. How does your child function outside of academics when unmedicated? ADHD children are less likely to have friends, more likely to get into car accidents, have unwanted pregnancies, abuse drugs, etc.

My personal opinion (which you're free to ignore) is that you should only withhold a beneficial medication from a child is if the medication is preventing them from physically growing. You don't want your child, once he's an adult, to look back at your decision to medicate him with resentment for making him short.
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Old 11-18-17, 05:36 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

I kind of fall somewhere in the middle of all this. My son was medicated at age 4. My oldest daughter tried meds when she was in 5th grade then again in 7th grade on and off until 9th grade. My son said when he was 15 that he didnt like the way meds made him feel after break in all summer long. He was working on his summer reading about a week before school and I gave him his medicine. It really affected his mood and he was sad and agitated. I think being off all summer and resuming caused this and he decided on no meds from there on out. My daughter said she too didnt like the way meds made her feel when she was 14 and didnt want them anymore, and my youngest daughter could never tolerate them. The older two decided they didnt want meds after being off them all summer and resuming. I think resuming them was too much for them and the negative reaction upset them and so they decided no meds. I think if i had kept them on that summer that they might have continued to take them.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-17, 09:30 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
Fraser mentioned the other day having withdrawal symptoms after missing
just one dose. We know that coffee, also a stimulant, can cause withdrawal
symptoms when decreased or stopped.

ADHD is already causing inconsistency in our lives, why add to that by being
able to focus during the week, or during the school year, and then struggling
to focus and feeling negative withdrawal symptoms the rest of the time.

Even though I only take Omega 3 to treat my ADHD, if I miss more than two
daily doses I notice the brain fog, the difficulty with social/family interactions.
I can't believe I lived that way for so many years.

Maybe without any influence from you, ask your kids if they want their meds
every day or if they're good with a meds vacation.
If they ever asked for their meds I would give them to them, I think I've made that clear to them. I give them absolutes on when they MUST have their meds, not that they can't have them if they want them.

Neither has said anything about withdrawals, or headaches, or acted in a bad way on non-med days that I have noticed. The one HUGE difference is appetite. I have pushed on my son that on non-med days I expect him to eat like a horse. He plays high level baseball and to be blunt, he needs to gain more weight to compete. He's approaching 6'3 and is 162#'s at last check in. To throw the ball the way he wants to throw the ball he NEEDS mass. On game days I give him the option of meds, he takes me up on the offer about 50% of the time, usually on the super important games.

Perhaps the people who suffer from withdrawals do so because they are over medicated?
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  #24  
Old 11-20-17, 01:42 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
If they ever asked for their meds I would give them to them, I think I've made that clear to them. I give them absolutes on when they MUST have their meds, not that they can't have them if they want them.

Neither has said anything about withdrawals, or headaches, or acted in a bad way on non-med days that I have noticed. The one HUGE difference is appetite. I have pushed on my son that on non-med days I expect him to eat like a horse. He plays high level baseball and to be blunt, he needs to gain more weight to compete. He's approaching 6'3 and is 162#'s at last check in. To throw the ball the way he wants to throw the ball he NEEDS mass. On game days I give him the option of meds, he takes me up on the offer about 50% of the time, usually on the super important games.

Perhaps the people who suffer from withdrawals do so because they are over medicated?
If you only give the option of taking meds on certain days, your kids may not
realize they have that option any other days.

I suggested that you ask your kids if they want meds, and you respond that
they haven't asked you for them. Kids with adhd are delayed in their
development in self awareness and self control. We had the meds discussion
with my oldest granddaughter many times, so she was aware of her options.
We encouraged her take them, but she chose not to, and she ended up with
anxiety and depression disorders.

Withdrawal can occur with a low but effective level of medication, it doesn't
only happen with over-medication or abuse of meds. I have worn eyeglasses
for most of my life and can't imagine the troubles I would have if they were
suddenly taken away ... eye strain, headaches, balance issues, and I expect
it would make me really cranky because I need my glasses to function day to
day.
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  #25  
Old 11-21-17, 09:20 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
If you only give the option of taking meds on certain days, your kids may not
realize they have that option any other days.

I suggested that you ask your kids if they want meds, and you respond that
they haven't asked you for them. Kids with adhd are delayed in their
development in self awareness and self control. We had the meds discussion
with my oldest granddaughter many times, so she was aware of her options.
We encouraged her take them, but she chose not to, and she ended up with
anxiety and depression disorders.

Withdrawal can occur with a low but effective level of medication, it doesn't
only happen with over-medication or abuse of meds. I have worn eyeglasses
for most of my life and can't imagine the troubles I would have if they were
suddenly taken away ... eye strain, headaches, balance issues, and I expect
it would make me really cranky because I need my glasses to function day to
day.
I didn't reply yesterday because I wanted to ask my son. He said "You frequently ask if I want them on the weekend even without there being a game, I know if I want them I can have them, I just usually don't want them."

Your eyes hurt without glasses because there is extra strain. For my son there is more of a fog without the meds, so it's actually less strain in my opinion. He comes off as a stoned surfer dude, which leads to him being offered and asked for pot often, but he likes being "so chill"...his words, lol!

But it was worth having the conversation :- )
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  #26  
Old 11-21-17, 12:15 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I didn't reply yesterday because I wanted to ask my son. He said "You frequently ask if I want them on the weekend even without there being a game, I know if I want them I can have them, I just usually don't want them."

Your eyes hurt without glasses because there is extra strain. For my son there is more of a fog without the meds, so it's actually less strain in my opinion. He comes off as a stoned surfer dude, which leads to him being offered and asked for pot often, but he likes being "so chill"...his words, lol!

But it was worth having the conversation :- )
I'm glad he knows he has the option at any time.

I think when I was in school I didn't feel the strain of not being diagnosed or
treated for adhd, I only realized I was different which made me quite shy.

But as the years went on and I was expected to 'adult' every day, the strain
became very real. The strain of not being able to meet adult expectations
left me very anxious and depressed, to the point of spending a lot of time
thinking about suicide. The only thing that kept from going that way was
being the mother of a child and I did not want to leave her that legacy.
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Old 11-21-17, 02:44 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
I'm glad he knows he has the option at any time.

I think when I was in school I didn't feel the strain of not being diagnosed or
treated for adhd, I only realized I was different which made me quite shy.

But as the years went on and I was expected to 'adult' every day, the strain
became very real. The strain of not being able to meet adult expectations
left me very anxious and depressed, to the point of spending a lot of time
thinking about suicide. The only thing that kept from going that way was
being the mother of a child and I did not want to leave her that legacy.
While my ex husband doesn't understand my way of parenting, I am attempting to parent self thinking children. I thought my son had missed his drivers ed class yesterday, long story, but while texting with my ex about it he said "What are you going to do about it?", I said "Me, nothing except provide him the phone number to see what he needs to do", he said "Do you think that is really fair, to expect him to figure this out?" I said "If he is old enough to get his license he's old enough to figure out how to fix his mistake." My ex still didn't get it, but my kids do, and that's my hope.

Earlier this year my son was assigned his study hall that is mandated by his IEP. He didn't have the same teacher as last year and he heard this teacher was very fun. He didn't think that was a good idea. He knows he needs pressure to do his work, being with a fun teacher wasn't going to go well for him. He not only realized this, he sought out his teacher from last year, asked her if she had a study hall 7th period, which she did, he then went to the office and requested to switch classes. I heard about this after the fact and was SOOOO proud of him for fixing his own problem and identifying a problem that hadn't even occured yet.
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  #28  
Old 11-21-17, 05:57 PM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

If not giving your kids meds all the time caco thats good that it works for you but for me and alot of others it wouldnt work. IME kids are very poor self evaluators and expecting them to know when the meds would help would be tough at least with my kids it would be.
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Old 11-22-17, 09:57 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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If not giving your kids meds all the time caco thats good that it works for you but for me and alot of others it wouldnt work. IME kids are very poor self evaluators and expecting them to know when the meds would help would be tough at least with my kids it would be.
I guess I just don't understand why they would need them outside of school, meeting, baseball game..etc. Playing with their friends outside doesn't seem to warrant meds. Then again, it must depend on the kid. If my kids had no self control for when they get upset when they were off the meds I would be medicating them.

In their case my son just gets spacey, and my daughter gets hyper. Neither of which hinders them in their play.
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Old 11-22-17, 10:21 AM
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Re: Started 5th Grade with No Meds-got email from teacher

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Originally Posted by Berksicle View Post
My son is in 5th grade and has been in school for almost 1 month now. We are med free in the summer and he does fine because it's less structured, he gets alot of outside time, etc.

I decided a new year, new teacher, let's see how he does without meds. I was waiting for the teacher to reach out and I got the email below.

I was so hopeful my son could get thru the school year without meds. But he's still having issues with impulsivity, listening, etc.

I think I have to get him back on his meds, what do you think?

Good afternoon, Mrs. G. I hope this email finds you doing well. I wanted to reach out to you about N and how hes doing over these first few weeks. Hes a very bright young man and has a very positive attitude and Ive enjoyed having him in class. I wanted to pick your brain about his behavior.

Ive seen him struggling with his impulsivity and focus as the year has begun more times than not. He is very active and overly chatty to the point of not recognizing when I am talking. He does respond well to redirection, but that is short lived and hes quick to go back to the talking.

I noticed as I was looking through his file and in talking with Mrs. Teacher that hes currently medicated for ADHD. The one thing that struck me as I looked through his file was that sometimes the medication is not as effective if hes going through a growth spurt. Im wondering if were seeing that at this time. In talking with Mrs. Teacher, she expressed that she did not see any of these behaviors last year. Are you seeing anything like this at home? Has there been any change to his current medication?

I welcome your input/insight into making it a great year for N. Please let me know any thoughts you might have.

Yes definitely start medicating again. You've heard some great reasons why you should so I'm not going to talk about that.

I just wanted to mention how impressed I am by the teacher's letter. It's respectful and inquiring without complaining. It sounds like they are really trying to find a good solution. I'd encourage you to cultivate a good relationship with this teacher. A good teacher who really tried to understand what is happening and wants to help can be invaluable.
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