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  #1  
Old 01-25-19, 09:03 PM
LeighWolf LeighWolf is offline
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Professional disbelief

Aside from a very brief "I'm new", this is my first post. Maybe this is a rhetorical question. I don't know. It's bothering me, though, and I can no longer ask those without ADHD to even entertain it.

Why do so many clinicians either not believe in ADHD or adhere so strictly to the boy-who-can't-sit-still meme that they don't even question why they think this way?

For instance, one posited that a tearful meltdown was likely a drive to elicit negative attention because positive attention was not given. What an assumption! Why not take it for overwhelm? Why assume the context of no positive attention? Because "tearful meltdown" and "overwhelm" aren't in the DSM-5 criteria? What do they imagine might occur when, to use the DSM words, a person "has difficulty organizing tasks...avoids sustained mental effort", etc? They just keep it inside? Why would it be difficult to imagine such a person might have a tearful meltdown?!

How about "often blurts out an answer..."; Or what if they blurt out a protest? That doesn't count? Why not think, "Hm...if someone has difficulty listening, sustaining attention, organizing...what kind of answers could they be blurting out?" Do they imagine the answers are correct, just prematurely offered? Of course, sometimes that might be the case. Or it might be no answer at all, just a feeling. Not a ploy for attention of any sort.

And does hyperactivity always have to mean can't sit still? Could it mean getting into everything? Taking things apart? Making mud pies? How about general busyness that may sometimes be on-task and other times not?

If anyone actually reads this, I am appreciative. I know I am a pain. That's the beauty of a forum, isn't it? And if anyone has anything instructive to say, I'd sure like to hear it, because I am tired of feeling like I'm trying to ask people to believe in the existence of aliens. I hope there was some tiny shred of intelligible thought here.
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  #2  
Old 01-26-19, 12:10 AM
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Re: Professional disbelief

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Originally Posted by LeighWolf View Post
And if anyone has anything instructive to say, I'd sure like to hear it, because I am tired of feeling like I'm trying to ask people to believe in the existence of aliens. I hope there was some tiny shred of intelligible thought here.
Hey Wolf, welcome to the forum!

You want instructive or constructive comments? This will work for both.

1. Stop trying to convince people and find a good Dr. that understands ADHD and needs no convincing of itís existence.

Iíve found discussing ADHD to others who donít have it to be very difficult, frustrating and futile most of the time. Itís usually not worth my time or the mental anguish required.

Most people without ADHD canít really relate but think or act like they can. This undermines those of us who have suffered from ADHD our entire lives. They say things like ďyeah, I probably have ADHD too.Ē when you try and explain. Others, think itís an excuse to abuse meds. Itís not worth it to me.

As long as you and your Dr. are convinced is all that really matters. Thatís also why we have this great support site. Hope you enjoy the forum!
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  #3  
Old 01-26-19, 01:23 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

Wow. It's been 11 years since we looked for a diagnosis for my ASD grandchild.
I had hoped the professionals were becoming more aware that just because all
the testing was done on boys, that doesn't mean girls don't have ADHD or ASD.

Very disappointing to hear that some haven't bothered to keep up with the
information coming from new research.

One thing research has revealed is that we don't filter info or feelings very well.
So we tend to feel emotions more strongly than neuro-typicals do, and are less
able to manage those emotions. It's not a matter of being "manipulative." Ugh.

And yeah, we tend to think ahead and blurt out questions or answers before
the other person is done speaking. Real issues with being impatient.

Those of us with combined or inattentive type ADHD aren't always "busy" in the
physical sense. It may be mental activity, or as you say, sometimes using that
energy in some useful way. And then when can't manage to do that the next
day, we are called "lazy."

Welcome to the forum LeighWolf. I think you'll have some useful insight to share.
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Old 01-26-19, 03:19 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

Wow thank you so much for replying. I'm not used to sharing such personal things, so I am very thankful to have been treated kindly here.

I've read the rules pertaining to giving medical advice, but I can't say I internalized them well. I also hesitate to identify exactly what I do, but for clarification of some of my issues I think I can safely say that I work in this field and not say exactly what I do.

I have a great psychiatrist who lives out of my area, so I feel his views won't be biased by knowing me or having colleagues who know me. In a sense, then, this frustration is not about me. With family, yes it is about me! How can everyone joke for all eternity that when a kid acts silly, throws a fit, has an accident, does something inexplicable that the kid is acting like me, and yet tell me they think my problem is that I don't LIKE charting (or whatever), not ADHD? That's a personal problem, though. After telling both parents and a sister and getting the same reaction, I decided never to mention it again.

I am more frustrated with simply engaging in conversation with colleagues and hearing the same types of bias. Why? Honestly, nobody seems to dispute the existence of schizophrenia, alcoholism or depression. How can a person dispute ADHD? Do they think that somehow that's the one chapter of the DSM that was included in error? If I list behaviors and outcomes that clearly support a diagnosis, I should not be asked if I considered a personality disorder, drug-seeking, and lifestyle choices. (Answer-of course I considered that! As I do with everyone!). Why here?

SHORT VERSION: I think my question might actually be this: What is so darn hard to believe about the existence of ADHD? Where is this bias coming from?
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Old 01-26-19, 09:48 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

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Originally Posted by LeighWolf View Post

SHORT VERSION: I think my question might actually be this: What is so darn hard to believe about the existence of ADHD? Where is this bias coming from?
SHORT ANSWER: Most people are quite ignorant regarding all of the other issues ADHD causes besides difficulty concentrating or focusing. Everyone has experienced that and feel they understand our condition. This totally undermines the problems ADHD causes and the fact 80% of the time they are accompanied by another co-morbid condition or more. They have no idea!

This is further fueled by media reporting. Talking about stimulant abuse gets more attention than explaining the real issues ADHD can cause in our lives. This is just my opinion.

SORRY, NOT SO SHORT
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Old 01-26-19, 10:06 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

I love your too the point don't n won't sugar coat it to the point expertise hound.i also love when people tell me ohh no I would never do that or use it against you and down the line ohh they do :-(
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Old 01-26-19, 11:32 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeighWolf View Post
Wow thank you so much for replying. I'm not used to sharing such personal things, so I am very thankful to have been treated kindly here.

I've read the rules pertaining to giving medical advice, but I can't say I internalized them well. I also hesitate to identify exactly what I do, but for clarification of some of my issues I think I can safely say that I work in this field and not say exactly what I do.

I have a great psychiatrist who lives out of my area, so I feel his views won't be biased by knowing me or having colleagues who know me. In a sense, then, this frustration is not about me. With family, yes it is about me! How can everyone joke for all eternity that when a kid acts silly, throws a fit, has an accident, does something inexplicable that the kid is acting like me, and yet tell me they think my problem is that I don't LIKE charting (or whatever), not ADHD? That's a personal problem, though. After telling both parents and a sister and getting the same reaction, I decided never to mention it again.

I am more frustrated with simply engaging in conversation with colleagues and hearing the same types of bias. Why? Honestly, nobody seems to dispute the existence of schizophrenia, alcoholism or depression. How can a person dispute ADHD? Do they think that somehow that's the one chapter of the DSM that was included in error? If I list behaviors and outcomes that clearly support a diagnosis, I should not be asked if I considered a personality disorder, drug-seeking, and lifestyle choices. (Answer-of course I considered that! As I do with everyone!). Why here?

SHORT VERSION: I think my question might actually be this: What is so darn hard to believe about the existence of ADHD? Where is this bias coming from?
The reason they disbelieve the reality of ADHD is that everyone experiences
the same symptoms we do, but to a lesser degree.

But because their symptoms are not causing any real impairment to their
everyday lives, they think we are exaggerating, using it as excuse, etc.
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As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
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  #8  
Old 01-27-19, 02:35 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

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Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
The reason they disbelieve the reality of ADHD is that everyone experiences
the same symptoms we do, but to a lesser degree.

But because their symptoms are not causing any real impairment to their
everyday lives, they think we are exaggerating, using it as excuse, etc.
I get that. But there are other things that are so hard to describe and I don't know honestly if other people do experience it.

When I read about difficulty set-shifting (problems going from one thought or task to another), I was amazed and asked my sister if she had problems with it like I did. She said she didn't understand what I was even asking, first. (She's an anthropologist-no dummy by any means). I wonder if some "symptoms" are so often described in a way that isn't quite right, and this adds to the confusion. Or they are just far enough out of typical experience that they can't imagine it's a real issue.

Sorry that's not real clear. I think I'm trying to say, it's not "I don't like change". It's, "I can't comprehend the whole when a part has changed". Until it clicks. But by then everyone has moved on and I'm just now getting something.

I hope this makes sense to anyone. I am so tired of being misunderstood and misinterpreted. I'm not whining. I'm saying it's good to not have to waste that mental energy so the conversation can actually go on without stalling out while I lose patience and focus and others wonder what the heck is being discussed.
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Old 01-28-19, 10:19 AM
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Re: Professional disbelief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post

Those of us with combined or inattentive type ADHD aren't always "busy" in the
physical sense. It may be mental activity, or as you say, sometimes using that
energy in some useful way. And then when can't manage to do that the next
day, we are called "lazy."
This may sound out of left field-ish, but I wonder if the mentally busy thing may be taken by others as bragging and therefore dismissed by the hearer. I personally know what it feels like for me. One topic leads to another which leads to another which leads to...oh shoot I forgot to put X on my grocery list...uh-oh where did I put that book? Oh look! I found this thing...Oh yeah I was gonna look up Y and so on. Or look up Y and find out ABC and end up knowing a whole lot of things others might not because they didn't fall down a rabbit hole to find it. Or I might end up confused because I lost track of things encountered along the way.

I personally have never been able to describe it to anyone who didn't say "me too" or "you're gonna have to stay on topic" or the like.

Again, out of left field, and I'm not asking for medical advice, but as patients or relatives of patients, is there anything that comes to mind that maybe a clinician should have asked better to get to the answer?

If this question is inappropriate, please feel free to correct me. Not sure where the line is drawn.
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Old 01-28-19, 11:17 AM
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Re: Professional disbelief

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeighWolf View Post
This may sound out of left field-ish, but I wonder if the mentally busy thing may be taken by others as bragging and therefore dismissed by the hearer. I personally know what it feels like for me. One topic leads to another which leads to another which leads to...oh shoot I forgot to put X on my grocery list...uh-oh where did I put that book? Oh look! I found this thing...Oh yeah I was gonna look up Y and so on. Or look up Y and find out ABC and end up knowing a whole lot of things others might not because they didn't fall down a rabbit hole to find it. Or I might end up confused because I lost track of things encountered along the way.

I personally have never been able to describe it to anyone who didn't say "me too" or "you're gonna have to stay on topic" or the like.

Again, out of left field, and I'm not asking for medical advice, but as patients or relatives of patients, is there anything that comes to mind that maybe a clinician should have asked better to get to the answer?

If this question is inappropriate, please feel free to correct me. Not sure where the line is drawn.
Since clinicians don't seem to learn much about ADHD in school, I think they
would all benefit from watching several of Dr. Russell Barkley's videos. He is
good at explaining.
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Old 01-28-19, 07:08 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

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Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
Since clinicians don't seem to learn much about ADHD in school, I think they
would all benefit from watching several of Dr. Russell Barkley's videos. He is
good at explaining.
Agreed. It's pretty glossed over. Or maybe I wasn't paying attention. Barkley does do a great job explaining things, I agree. Watching his videos is where I have learned the most. I've learned a great deal on this forum, as well. Not the same, I know, but I like to get information in any way I can. Helps it stick.
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Old 01-29-19, 11:21 AM
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Re: Professional disbelief

Part of the problem is the difference between boys and girls and the way adhd presents itself. Part of the problem is that many people think you grow out of it an an adult cant have it. What starts out as physical hyperactivity can turn into mental hyperactivity which isnt easy to spot. Many people are swayed by the negative articles and blogs that get pushed to the top of google search results. There is a sort of implicit bias in a way- people have their minds half made up and seek out info that confirms it. Med companies have barely studied meds in adults and most of them do not. Plus they are cracking down on controlled substances so we all suffer that way. I just try not to care and know that I can tell real news from sensationalized bs.
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Old 01-30-19, 04:49 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

Like Sarah I was frustrated by the idea that as you age your symptoms go away. My sons doctor said that to him when he was a teenager. Well, you're old enough now where you don't need meds. I can't believe I allowed this guy to dx and medicate my kids without him fully understanding the condition. I wish I would have pushed to go to a p-doc, especially someone who specializes. You would think with all the years I've been here it would have been obvious. But, I missed the mark and my kids were frustrated enough to not continue the pursuit of meds. So my family...unmedicated and yes, we struggle. Perhaps one day we'll rediscover the benefits and find someone in medicine who understands.
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Old 01-30-19, 06:49 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

I don't think we're failures it's just we have a different system at play then the rest of the world.i think alot of times our system works better it cuts out all the excessive rigamarole.not sure if that's spelled right but hopefully y'all get the gist of it.lol
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Old 01-30-19, 08:53 PM
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Re: Professional disbelief

There is just a lot of ignorance out there ... as a rule psychiatrists tend to be trained to take ADHD seriously ... Lots of counselors and therapists ... less so.

I'm not a doctor, but I was a patient who had long kept track of my depression ... and used therapy and meds for quite a while ... I mean, I was totally open to a range of mental health information and I completely missed ADHD. I had it stereotyped in my head as the out-of-control kid ... It took me time to think back to and remember all the times my father handed me some multi-step project to do ... and my brain just going blank ... as in not able to follow what he was saying ... and then not able to follow through ....

Took me a while as well to remember the time I went out with a friend who was involved in a political campaign ... He met someone at a corner, got X number of fliers, had a list of houses he wanted us to visit, had x number of people (including me) to visit the houses ... gave out tips on how to approach people ... divvied up the work ... I remember literally having a headache trying to follow what my buddy was saying and thinking.

I could not get my brain to turn out to follow the details he was spewing out ... Just chalked it up to random experience at the time ... only later did I say, OMG, that sounds like ADHD.

All the office jobs I hated and could barely function in ... just random, I thought.
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