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  #181  
Old 09-12-17, 12:25 AM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

I just want to know what can be done to get relationships or things along those lines. I am sometimes told that being myself (minus anger, hate and envy) is good enough; others say "good money, socially active, or forget it... you're not young anymore and therefore MUST compete, or forget it."

Everyone has conveniently ignored the issue of being a man who cannot function like a modern human is expected to function. The only answers suggested are "I don't know" or "you know, there's someone for everyone" and while the first answer is fine, the second statement is most likely false. Because it seems obvious to me that socially awkward men with nothing to offer, receive just that.. nothing. There's nothing viable there.

Is the reason this question is not addressed due to the sensitivity of topics that brush up against class, gender norms, societal value? Is this place lacking a culture of dealing with these concepts? (May I suggest it appears to be so; I don't know why, though. Perhaps the idea is not to bring it up because it can cause anger/flame-wars?)

Anyhow, the most accurate descriptor I have: I consider myself to be a man with a rough cognitive disability and as a result almost "trapped in his own body." I want to know if there are some folks who may look past some of that, may not require "teh good career w/ nice degree from dat good skool yo" or if that is just wishful thinking at this point.

I mean I knew a very pleasant and nice guy in high school with a real LD, who could not count past 7 (serious math disability), and was a charmer anyway. I've known of some other cases of disabled men, even in adulthood, who still had partners one way or another.

Knowing that some men with cognitive difficulties/disabilities can get relationships, I don't see why I should continue telling myself "no chance in hell, I offer nothing"; at the same time, usually the only men I ever see in forums with "partners" have good credentials going for them, with maybe a few (but not many) exceptions. It also seems the world favors a cynical reality, not the ideal I want to believe, and so. Torn I am. What should I think?
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  #182  
Old 09-12-17, 02:43 AM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

In most cases being you minus the anger hate and envy is enough. I'm not going to say it will just happen though. I think you do have to put yourself out there and create opportunities to meet someone.

When I look at couples I don't see only perfect people (or well functioning people). I do think it's mainly a matter of just meeting enough women.

Again the best advice though is I think to find something that you love doing, then join advice club or a few and eventually you will probably meet someone there (or find someone there who can set you up with a friend)
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  #183  
Old 09-13-17, 09:30 PM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

I like Fuzzy's post. I do think the anger and envy are absolutely toxic. What do you think it would take to reduce those?

The 5% male virgin study suggested social awkwardness was the common denominator in their relationship problems. I'm guessing it's the same for you. That the reason you became angry and envious (aka toxic) is because your social awkwardness kept you from forming relationships.

I still think you should join the in-person social anxiety group. Not to pick up girls, but to work on your social anxiety and self-esteem issues. Are you seeing a therapist?

Anger, envy, social anxiety/awkwardness, and poor self esteem are the 4 main issues to me (with poor self esteem being the root cause of all other issues though your autism adds to the social awkwardness too). Anyway, those are my ideas. Take them with a grain of salt cause I could just be talking crap.

I don't understand what you mean by trapped in your own body and man can't function in modern society? What exactly are you not doing that you feel like you need to be doing?

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  #184  
Old 09-14-17, 01:36 AM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

Hey batman, I just ran into another of your posts about vocal disfluency. I didn't realize you had that since your writing is so articulate.

A lot of people don't have the patience to deal with slow communications unfortunately. That's a weakness in them that's not compatible with you. So I guess I said it before, but it's really about picking the right places/ways to meet people that are most likely to be compatible with you.
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  #185  
Old 09-14-17, 02:09 AM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

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Originally Posted by acdc01 View Post
I like Fuzzy's post. I do think the anger and envy are absolutely toxic. What do you think it would take to reduce those?
That's either going to be CBT, mindful meditation (but it's so hard with ADHD and my anxious mind..!), or the right meds. I think it may, at the end of the day, have to be meds.

Medication for me is a complicated subject. The best description I can find for my ridiculously sensitive response to all drugs, including stimulants, is actually "HSP." (Highly sensitive person.) According to one article I read, HSP is actually linked to ADHD. It was even more interesting when the article listed other common factors for HSP... atopic dermatitis and asthma. Drug sensitivity. Rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Anxiety. Making a big deal out of little things. I ticked every box on the list.

Anyway, I won't bore you with the details, but I haven't been able to tolerate any ADD meds yet. I'll be trying Strattera next at the child-size dose to see if I can handle it.

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The 5% male virgin study suggested social awkwardness was the common denominator in their relationship problems. I'm guessing it's the same for you. That the reason you became angry and envious (aka toxic) is because your social awkwardness kept you from forming relationships.
I think this may be more correct than I'd like it to be. And forgive if it sounds blunt or pathetic, but I think having natural desire for a very long time with no fulfillment, is going to cause insecurity and resentment (for anyone.) Moreso if you see virtually everyone else doing this, and moreso since it's almost an expectation.

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I still think you should join the in-person social anxiety group. Not to pick up girls, but to work on your social anxiety and self-esteem issues.
Theoretically, working on the second one, mayhaps will allow the first to eventually happen

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I don't understand what you mean by trapped in your own body and man can't function in modern society? What exactly are you not doing that you feel like you need to be doing?
"Trapped inside oneself" is a common autistic analogy. I think it applies in my case now even if not before, because my functional ability has been declining for a long time. It's like there's a person with *something* to offer inside, but that person is trapped, hamstrung by the cognitive/mental difficulty. Wherever I go nowadays, I just feel present, but not able to contribute in any meaningful way. That's the best I can describe it for now.

As for the rest, I don't like to provide specific detail about that, I don't mind you asking though. I'm basically a disabled person, I think that should tell enough. So yeah, it's not looking good for me.
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  #186  
Old 09-14-17, 10:28 PM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

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And forgive if it sounds blunt or pathetic, but I think having natural desire for a very long time with no fulfillment, is going to cause insecurity and resentment (for anyone.) Moreso if you see virtually everyone else doing this, and moreso since it's almost an expectation.
Oh I completely agree with you. I thought it was so normal a response for you to be having your anger and envy issues that I actually didn't think it was caused by your ADHD at all. though I guess maybe ADHD can make it harder to control emotions.

The problem is, it doesn't matter if this is a normal response or not. Your anger and envy are still toxic and will prevent healthy relationships so they really need to be dealt with.

Quote:
"Trapped inside oneself" is a common autistic analogy. I think it applies in my case now even if not before, because my functional ability has been declining for a long time. It's like there's a person with *something* to offer inside, but that person is trapped, hamstrung by the cognitive/mental difficulty. Wherever I go nowadays, I just feel present, but not able to contribute in any meaningful way. That's the best I can describe it for now.

As for the rest, I don't like to provide specific detail about that, I don't mind you asking though. I'm basically a disabled person, I think that should tell enough. So yeah, it's not looking good for me.
Is this cognitive decline cause by stress and depression or is this really unusual? If it's unusual, have you gone to ask drs about it? I thought I saw some posts earlier suggesting it wasn't normal. Maybe if you've already gone to one dr. you should try a second opinion. It sounds serious and perhaps treatable.

I can totally respect not wanting to share more. It does make it harder to understand and respond to your posts but if you aren't comfortable saying more, then you aren't. Saying you're basically disabled doesn't really add to my understanding cause we are all disabled. But your post about vocal disfluency I ran into does help as well as your explanation of what "trapped inside oneself" means.

Do you feel not trapped inside yourself in your writing by chance - like your true self shines through when you write? Or in any other instances?

I feel like this wallowing, self-pitying notion of it's not looking good for you is just harmful. It's like a self-fulfilling prophesy. You keep telling yourself this and then your self-esteem stays down which just increases your anger, social anxiety, and envy. The same is true about comparing yourself all the time to others - just makes some of what holds you back worse.

Quote:
Theoretically, working on the second one, mayhaps will allow the first to eventually happen
Agree. I hope it does happen for you. I hope that you try something that might help you and if that something doesn't work, then try something else. And if that something doesn't work - never give up trying. It actually isn't hopeless for you unless you stop trying.
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  #187  
Old 09-16-17, 12:31 AM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

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Oh I completely agree with you. I thought it was so normal a response for you to be having your anger and envy issues that I actually didn't think it was caused by your ADHD at all. though I guess maybe ADHD can make it harder to control emotions.

The problem is, it doesn't matter if this is a normal response or not. Your anger and envy are still toxic and will prevent healthy relationships so they really need to be dealt with.
This anger and over-reactivity--even the envy--has *always* been present for me in some form, even before I cared whether or not I had some "sensual experience," if you will. I think this is either ADHD or some mood problem which is associated with ADHD, whatever it is, I have always had it.

As you probably surmise, these problems only became compounded the more I lagged behind in adulthood. The fact that I did not show proficiency in any one single area is another thing that was unearthed as I got into my early 20s or so. That's when the self-loathing began. It continues to bother me to find that virtually every single user on this site has an actual proficiency, even if they formerly claimed "I'm also not good at anything" later on I find them saying "But I've always been an excellent reader, and that's how I got through college" or "But I've been great socially, which took care of academic difficulty" and I had nothing to fall back on. But you've already seen me describe this a lot in this thread, you probably don't need to see it again.

I suppose the conclusion is either folks like me are very rare (troubling for various reasons), or they do not like to speak up on message boards.

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Is this cognitive decline cause by stress and depression or is this really unusual? If it's unusual, have you gone to ask drs about it? I thought I saw some posts earlier suggesting it wasn't normal. Maybe if you've already gone to one dr. you should try a second opinion. It sounds serious and perhaps treatable.
It is concerning and a little bit unusual. I have not seen the docs about it as yet. It could be the result of several things. I suspect it may ultimately be the cumulative toll of poor lifestyle choices, especially the lack of an established sleep pattern. It may also be tied to a longterm unidentified health problem, but this is getting a bit longwinded.

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I can totally respect not wanting to share more. It does make it harder to understand and respond to your posts but if you aren't comfortable saying more, then you aren't. Saying you're basically disabled doesn't really add to my understanding cause we are all disabled. But your post about vocal disfluency I ran into does help as well as your explanation of what "trapped inside oneself" means.
I'll add some further clarity, "difficulty with employment, perhaps unable to work." Keep in mind I've been a part of the rank-and-file before, though, but have always found most work to be overwhelming. But anyway, that should explain that I don't just mean disabled as in "forgetful, anxious" I mean I probably cannot hit the lowest-bar for being a member of society.

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Agree. I hope it does happen for you. I hope that you try something that might help you and if that something doesn't work, then try something else. And if that something doesn't work - never give up trying. It actually isn't hopeless for you unless you stop trying.
I still have trouble thinking there is any point in trying if I can't talk about myself the same way other 30+ guys can. I have literally nothing anyone in that age group is supposed to have. What else could this mean except more of the same.. nothing. I'm not allowed to participate in the sensual sphere apparently, if I don't offer anything of societal value. It's infuriating, the more I think about it. And I don't think much can be done.
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  #188  
Old 09-16-17, 12:11 PM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

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I suppose the conclusion is either folks like me are very rare (troubling for various reasons), or they do not like to speak up on message boards.
It's the latter. I remember a post here by someone who was in their mid forties. Virgin, never employed, no friends. asking if their was anyone like them. No raise of hands. That person never posted here again from my recollection.

I showed you how many male virgins there are in just one city let alone the entire world. Yet rarely anyone admits it. There is just an enormous stigma over virginity, male or female so almost everyone is afraid to speak up. I had thought that forty something guy was really brave and I think you're brave as well.

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It is concerning and a little bit unusual. I have not seen the docs about it as yet.
I'd see a dr. just in case. It might not help but it can also change your life.

Quote:
I'll add some further clarity, "difficulty with employment, perhaps unable to work."
I'll be honest and if I'm being too honest and triggering people, please tell me so. My personal opinion is that most NTs would not date someone who is long term unemployed. Short-term yes, long-term no.

So a couple ideas (which may or may not be good ones). One which I already shared.

1. Go to a social anxiety, adhd, and/or autism in-person groups - you'll probably find some other long-term unemployed people too there.

2. Put one of your artwork up for sale on ebay or some artist site and try to sell it. When asked what you do for a living, say you are trying to be an artist (which is the truth now) in a voice that doesn't sound like you are ashamed to be that. Have your phone close by with photos of your artwork and show them to her. Be a little enthusiastic about art though don't brag about it. Some women might not like that but a fair amount would be satisfied. The right girl will love your passion for art and think higher of you for your artistic talent. .

Contrary to what you believe, I think most women actually don't care how much money you make or whether you are successful or not at your career. I would say the vast majority at my company wouldn't because they can all support themselves, they don't need your money.

But they do want to feel like you have passion in something and are trying to do something. They don't understand disability (yet) if they don't have it so picture people who are long term unemployed as coach potatoes mooching off their parents which they don't want. I do think once they get to know you a little better, they can learn to understand disability if they are the right woman for you - those are the best type of women too so your disability has helped you find a good partner.

Note, you could always try to be an artist just for yourself anyway. If you do, don't be upset if your artwork doesn't sell. It's really nearly all about marketing and connections I think, not a reflection of your talent.

Another idea, if you have difficulties communicating orally is to mix in some emails and texts with your communications to her. You sound like a smart person when you write and you will be able to better show your true self. Well, I think you'll be able to better show your true self in writing anyway - that's how I feel anyways about myself. My adhd hides who I really am sometimes when speaking in person.

Think I wrote too much. Good luck and again, take anything I say with a grain of salt as my ideas may not always be good ones.
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  #189  
Old 09-18-17, 01:21 AM
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Re: Anyone else like this or "am I just a worthless genetic defect?"

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I'll be honest and if I'm being too honest and triggering people, please tell me so. My personal opinion is that most NTs would not date someone who is long term unemployed. Short-term yes, long-term no.
To be honest I don't think an NT woman would be interested in someone like me for even a single day/night. The more NT they are, the more "normative" the expectations are. I don't look NT, I don't act NT, I have nothing NTs have, I don't have the ideals of an NT.

And being more brutally honest, it is obvious to me that I have similar odds with non-NT women. Yes, theoretically, one would think a woman with some similar issue(s) may be more interested because of more compatibility. However, it is important to realize that because of innate gender dynamics, men need to offer something more than what the woman already has. This is the impression I've gotten from all of my time on "online dating" (every minute of which I regret), as well as asking in Asperger's forums about the "partners" of Aspie women. All of these men were described as having some kind of strong feature, either they were socially capable (yin to the yang), or they were non-NT but very well-educated and well-paid to "compensate for being a little awkward" apparently.

It's quite a bit different from the statement that goes, "even if a guy is an Aspie and a loser, he just needs to put himself out there," when the anecdotal evidence is so far in the opposite direction, I can't get myself to agree with the statement anymore. I'd LIKE to believe it, but where is the evidence?

The only silver-lining is that I've made a lot of these observations online either from "dating sites" or from message boards, and obviously, my experience with meeting or talking to women in real life is extremely limited. Maybe it isn't so draconian in real life interaction. But even so, why try? Isn't it simply pragmatic to think that there's no chance for anything, given what you know about me?

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Contrary to what you believe, I think most women actually don't care how much money you make or whether you are successful or not at your career. I would say the vast majority at my company wouldn't because they can all support themselves, they don't need your money.
I talked a bit about this above. I can't say for sure how important a career or money will be for real-life 'dating/mating', online however it appears to have become a prerequisite, because the competition is so intense, every last woman can afford to skip over a guy who lacks a good career/income. This may be a consequence of an estimated 4:1 men-to-women ratio; some estimates put that at 10:1. What happens is they literally have no reason to consider a guy who appears to be below a high standard, all things considered, and career/income is one of them.

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But they do want to feel like you have passion in something and are trying to do something. They don't understand disability (yet) if they don't have it so picture people who are long term unemployed as coach potatoes mooching off their parents which they don't want. I do think once they get to know you a little better, they can learn to understand disability if they are the right woman for you - those are the best type of women too so your disability has helped you find a good partner.
An invisible disability looks the same to all women, there are no exceptions. It looks strange and like the guy is pathetic or weak or passive. What else is there to say about it? Adult men who can't be socially active, seem awkward, have little agency, etc. What's to like?

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My adhd hides who I really am sometimes when speaking in person.
I can't keep up with the flow of real-time interaction, always lagging behind or missing some cue or whatever. Whatever else you might say, this lack of social fluency is a very easy thing to notice, and is something that condemns a man to have no relationships for his entire life. It's quite infuriating to think that this ONE quality has such a gargantuan effect which lasts an entire lifetime. I did not ask to be this way.

And I was going to say something else about it, but I'll stop before it gets out of hand.
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