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  #16  
Old 11-30-19, 03:59 AM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

Herbalism is no joke.

I wonder about some herbal substances that could be okay to vape, but others toxic when vaporized?

Different methods of extraction using chemicals could also be more harmful, than some other methods of extraction?

I think it is smart to limit vaping to nicotine and cannabis, from a harm reduction perspective, until these other flavors/substances are proven to be safe.

If I understand correctly many vaping illnesses have been linked to a substance that is toxic when vaped?

Quote:
Federal public health investigators on Friday announced a breakthrough in identifying the cause of an outbreak of lung disease associated with vaping that has sickened more than 2,000 people and killed 39 in the United States this year.
Vitamin E acetate — an oily supplement that’s commonly sold in capsules or added to skin creams and other cosmetic products — was found in samples taken from the lungs of 29 patients who were diagnosed with the vaping-associated illness, including two people who died, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The additive previously had been found in THC products vaped by people who had fallen ill. But the new report is the first to identify a specific finding in patients’ lungs that could be causing the illness. It’s possible that other substances could also play a role, and CDC officials said they need more studies to prove that vitamin E acetate is causing illness. But the findings are “significant,” said Dr. Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the CDC.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/health/ar...s-14820749.php


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Last edited by mildadhd; 11-30-19 at 04:10 AM..
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Old 11-30-19, 12:47 PM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

My granddaughter's boyfriend has given up vaping and is now using nicotine
toothpicks. My concern is that they could be like chewing tobacco and cause
mouth and throat cancer.
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Old 12-27-19, 06:56 AM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...t-vaping-death
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Old 02-11-20, 01:29 AM
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Exclamation Re: The vaping hysteria

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychopathetic View Post
I'm going to make enemies here.../sigh
But I've always been against vaping and am glad it's starting to gain a major bad rap finally.
I get that it helps people cut back on smoking cigarettes...and I try to be supportive...but deep down inside, I feel like smoking is smoking.
I've got over 9 years smoke free...if I started to vape today (not happening! I love my quit!!) I'd feel like I completely lost my quit. Even though I wouldn't be smoking cigarettes, I'd still be smoking.

I'm sorry for anyone who this upsets
But I've never liked the idea of vaping/e-cigs.
Do not ever again apologize for trying to stop people from taking up vaping or cigarettes. 🙂

I have never smoked in my life. I have never lived with a smoker. Yet, due to a history of pneumonia and two years of exposure to severe environmental toxins, I developed COPD at the age of 37. Think of COPD as the most severe asthma that you could ever imagine on crack. The only end to COPD is a bad end - death from respiratory failure. Have you ever had a really horrible case of bronchitis, choked on a piece of food, or got caught up in a wave out in the ocean, and you couldn't breathe for a matter of moments? Do you recall the fear and anxiety that this experience caused you to feel?

That is what death by respiratory failure feels like. Except the experience of losing that essential need to breathe is extended out into days, months, even years...not a matter of moments. Imagine the worst terror of your life and the loss of all control you feel growing stronger during each minute. Then realize your imagination can't even begin to comprehend the reality of this.

How do I know? I suffered from respiratory failure in March, 2019 due to a combination of flu and pneumonia hitting my COPD-weakened body all at once. I should note that I had been vaccinated against both, but the steroid medication prescribed to me for my lungs to stay a little more open had the price of a destroyed immune system to be paid. I was intubated, put on a ventilator and was induced into a medical coma so that my body could try and heal. My mother was given paperwork from the hospital essentially stating that I was all but dead, and this coma thing was a long shot. She spent an agonizing month wondering if her beloved only child would ever wake up again.

I woke up after five weeks. Waking up from an induced coma and regaining your old level of fundtioning is like trying to come back from a computer crash bad enough to have provided a blue screen of death. Except, there's no new hard drive that can be installed and no memory upgrades. Ten months later, I still haven't been able to learn how to walk again. I spent three months learning to eat again and get off a feeding tube. It took me eight months to be able to speak again in full sentences, as I went from needing the full support of a ventilator to relying on a speaking valve attached to the tracheostomy opening in my neck. The most thrilling moment of 2019 for my mom was at Thanksgiving, when I was finally strong enough to call her on the phone and have a whole conversation. My mother went MONTHS without hearing my voice. This week, I am finally get my trach removed. I still require a small amount of oxygen to breathe on my own, but my recovery is considered an absolute miracle by all of my practitioners.

For the love of all things holy, PLEASE, DEAR GOD, STOP SMOKING OR VAPING TODAY! This is not judgment, this is one human soul begging with another. Please, there is NOTHING, no amount of momentary relief or pleasure or release that smoking or vaping provides you, which can ever make the imprisonment and terror and devastation of lung disease worth it. If I lived only so I could write this and spare one other person and their loved ones this agony, it was not experienced in vain. Don't even potentially put yourself, family or friends through this. Life is hard enough as a healthy person! No one is invincible.

I love you all, but if you're offended, tough. It hope what I said nags at you so hard, you quit!
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Old 02-11-20, 01:36 AM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andi View Post
When my son and hub started doing vape just for the juice (they stopped), no nicotine, they would try to get me to do the taste and I was...no. The inhale is what I crave. That sense of relief it use to give me. It would have been only a matter of time before I would pic up a cig again. It's great if it works for some...

Psycho I have 11 years smoke-free, I'm proud of you for your 9+.
If people only knew what fighting through that desire for quick relief through vaping or smoking would save them down the road in misery...sob. 😢

Eleven years of non-smoking, especially with continued temptation, is truly outstanding.
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  #21  
Old 02-11-20, 01:18 PM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie80 View Post
Do not ever again apologize for trying to stop people from taking up vaping or cigarettes. 🙂

I have never smoked in my life. I have never lived with a smoker. Yet, due to a history of pneumonia and two years of exposure to severe environmental toxins, I developed COPD at the age of 37. Think of COPD as the most severe asthma that you could ever imagine on crack. The only end to COPD is a bad end - death from respiratory failure. Have you ever had a really horrible case of bronchitis, choked on a piece of food, or got caught up in a wave out in the ocean, and you couldn't breathe for a matter of moments? Do you recall the fear and anxiety that this experience caused you to feel?

. . .

:
Gadzooks! What a story. I'm so sorry you went through this, but I'm so glad
you came out the other side.

I've been wondering if it's possible for a non-smoker to develop COPD. The
idea scares the crap out of me. I lived with a smoker for 25 years. Developed
pluerisy, asthma, bronchitis, and pneumonia twice.

Kicked his butt to the curb 20 years ago. The charts in the doctor's office say
that your lungs can clear up in only a few years, so I hope I'm good now.
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Old 02-14-20, 01:48 AM
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Post Re: The vaping hysteria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
Gadzooks! What a story. I'm so sorry you went through this, but I'm so glad
you came out the other side.

I've been wondering if it's possible for a non-smoker to develop COPD. The
idea scares the crap out of me. I lived with a smoker for 25 years. Developed
pluerisy, asthma, bronchitis, and pneumonia twice.

Kicked his butt to the curb 20 years ago. The charts in the doctor's office say
that your lungs can clear up in only a few years, so I hope I'm good now.
Please note that my case is extremely unusual and complex, particularly for a woman only aged 39. A lifelong non-smoker can develop COPD even with no prior history of asthma, and with no history of residing or working indoors with a smoker. I went from being non-asthmatic to having Stage 3 COPD based on PFT findings, in only 18 months time. The cause in almost every case like mine is environmental exposure to lung destroyers, but other factors (like genes) also play a part in whether one will develop this disease. It's a fallacy that nothing can be done to slow or even temporarily reverse lung damage, but I want to give no one false promises or illusions. As of this time, COPD has no cure, and death by respiratory failure is inevitable (assuming no other cause of death comes first).

However, COPD can be managed by medication and lifestyle changes for some time, up to 20 years after diagnosis in certain cases. Realize that science creates new possibilities daily, and this may one day soon change for the better, even be curable. The more effort goes into that research, the sooner this can occur. Regardless, I recommend being extremely proactive about guarding your lungs from further damage. You may already be doing some or all of these things, but I will list my basic suggestions below.

Health - The obvious stuff goes here. Eat healthy, regularly and sufficiently. Good days, nuts, seeds, lean protein, vegetables, fruit, small amounts of whole grain. Very limited, if any, dairy. Dairy is murder on the lungs, which saddens me a lot. Drink lots of water. Green tea, honey, lemon, all great. Eliminate alcohol as much as possible. Supplement for any nutritional deficiency shown by lab testing.

Carry your rescue inhaler on you at all times, if applicable. Lift weights and do core work 2-4x a week for necessary muscle mass protection. If anybody tells me they can't do this, I'm linking video of me lifting weights, doing crunches, and performing leg exercises in bed while on a ventilator! You cannot have too much muscle. If anything does befall you and bed rest is required for any length of time, you'll send thanks above for the more muscle mass you have to start with. The more time that you spend strengthening the back of the body, especially in the shoulders, trapezoid and back, the better. A stronger core = a stronger support for the diaphragm and lungs.

Do cardio 2-4x a week, 20-60 minutes a go. More isn't necessarily better. Don't sacrifice weight workouts for cardio, if you only have time for one thing. But if you can add a nice walk to your day at least a couple times a week, great. Heart and lung issues often accompany each other. Unless you're forbidden due to disability, climb the stairs, park far from store entrances and hoof it, do your own housework...all that crap we want to slap the person giving us this advice over, it actually is important. Yes, it sucks. But not as bad as having a hospital bed be home.

Finally, study how to breathe properly (like what's taught about belly breathing in yoga) and spend 5-10 minutes a day on breathing exercises designed to break us out of chest/thoracic breathing patterns that aren't healthy. If you can do a full stretching or yoga routine 1-3x a week, fantastic! This should be the sort of routine that's focused on relieving tension and soothing stress.

Medical - Regularly get yourself checked to verify that your oxygen levels are staying within normal range both at rest AND when active. The main way that ERs will miss signs of respiratory problems, misdiagnosing them as panic attacks or something else, is by only testing your oxygen level at rest (while you're in bed). The real key is to get up and walk down the hallway wearing a pulse oximeter. Trust me, if you're in respiratory distress (including during flu, bronchitis, and pneumonia), THIS is the real test. The emergency department also needs to run a complete CBC on your blood (lab work), which will give a better idea if you're showing abnormal immune deficiency. Get a flu vaccine each year if able to, and the pneumonia vaccine if possible. Avoid taking steroids such as Prednisone or any other immune system-lowering drugs if at all possible.

Legal - Please do yourself and your loved ones the greatest service possible and complete/notarize/publicize your final wishes in the form of legal paperwork. Have as open a conversation as you can with family and friends about your choices, why you've made them and what knowledge it's based off of. The more people that know, the better. Having a written advance directive, living will or whatever your region's form of final wish documentation completed correctly is invaluable. Including a video version of yourself reading out these wishes is not necessarily accepted under law, but it can go a long way in proving that you wanted what your paperwork indicates. Put this doc on file with your family physician, all specialists, your local hospital, in a fireproof/waterproof container at home, and preferably one with an entity like an attorney.

If you have wishes such as not wanting to be resuscitated, this info needs to be readily available for paramedics or they are unlikely to stop the efforts (especially if you're young), so keep this very accessible. If your doctor has already written a DNR order at your request, your family may not override it.

Mental health - Untreated or poorly managed depression, anxiety and ADD are three of the worst possible things for lung health. You'll probably never hear an expert say that but I've lived it, so I'm saying it. If any of these are causing myriad problems in your life, it's absolutely essential to receive therapy, coaching with a trustworthy person, and possibly medication in order to treat the condition(s) better. If anyone wants to go into this further, let me know.

Sleep - Research sleep apnea and other sleep issues, including ones regarding circadian rhythm. If you have any reason at ALL to suspect sleep apnea - even if all you do is snore - have a sleep study done. Get a CPAP or Bi-pap machine, use it, and keep it clean as directed by your medical professional. No joke, do NOT ignore your sleep life in this journey. Doing so was one of my biggest mistakes, and might have prevented my slip into unconsciousness.

Environmental - Educate yourself regarding household and occupational contributors to lung disease. Please don't assume any place is safe without getting a thorough inspection done, including on brand-new builds. If you've owned your home for a significant length of time, consider getting it reinspected. Even a small leak can cause big problems down the road with mold and mildew. Ask any builder/contractor/inspector direct questions about how areas are safe to be in, based upon your research. View as many areas as you can for yourself (wearing protective gear), in order to verify what's being said, or have the inspector record video while they work.

Employment - I know that this will be a touchy subject. I wasn't born to wealth and privilege. I've had to work for a couple of companies that took abysmal care of their buildings. Don't do what I did, which was to ignore the problems rather than report them. In the U.S., OSHA is responsible for ensuring employers respond to inquiries, and then correct identified environmentally unsafe areas. Do not tolerate working in unsafe conditions. Employers will usually not be there for employees who are harmed by their action - or inaction - down the road. Don't stay with anyone who values profits over public health and safety. Don't tolerate them hiding or lying about these things. If you cannot get satisfaction through local, state, Federal government, private requests for clean-up, etc.: Find another job. Better that than one day being taken to the hospital because you can't breathe and your limbs are swelling. I've lived it.

Buildings - If designing your own home and it's possible, use building materials specifically designed to minimize or repel mold, mildew, dust, etc. Use watertight, waterproof, well-sealed items everywhere possible. If you are a homeowner already, improve existing air quality by having your ducts cleaned out every 3-5 years. While expensive, the installation of a central vac can be extraordinary for asthma sufferers. Central A/C should always be installed rather than window units, if feasible. If your home has an attached garage, make absolutely certain that no fumes from the garage are returning back into your home. The same goes for workshops, artist/photographer studios, and all other areas with shavings or chemicals. Check carefully behind bathroom walls (especially showers and tubs), for hidden mold and mildew. A cutout area should be available to you for double-checking this space. Don't allow grout or caulk to disintegrate to the point where water has a way into the wall behind it. Dehumidify all damp areas of home immediately upon discovery of moisture, and promptly fix all drips or leaks. There is much, much more I could cover but I'll spare everyone.

Cleaning - Use the safest, gentlest cleaning products possible for all jobs. It's astounding what can be cleaned and disinfected with simple dish soap, reusable microfiber cloths, some good scrub brushes, lemons and oranges, rubbing alcohol, coarse salt, baking soda, and a great vacuum cleaner w/ HEPA filter and attachments for crevices/upholstery. Check out YouTube cleaning channels like Clean My Space for tutorials on all housekeeping topics you can imagine. Use very high-quality air filtering machines (such as Rabbit) to cover as much square footage as possible, with bedrooms being of top importance. Dust, vacuum floors, change bed sheets and wipe down/disinfect bathrooms weekly. (Disinfecting for me just means spritzing down surfaces with a pump spray bottle of 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol after I've scrubbed away any gunk or dirt, rinsed and dried. Rubbing alcohol also works great for disinfecting makeup brushes, combs, ) Wear a lung-protective mask and gloves when changing or cleaning litter boxes, emptying vacuum cleaner dust traps, doing heavy-duty dusting, decluttering rooms which haven't been cleaned for more than a few months, during any painting tasks, or any space with exposed insulation. Regularly use canned air, vacuum cleaning attachments, and careful use of alcohol to dust and sanitize electronics.

Is this a lot of work to do for a "maybe" disease? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes! Three MILLION cases of COPD are diagnosed yearly - to put that into perspective, that number equals the entire population of Chicago. Or Buenos Aires. I know, crazy.

Note: Please don't misunderstand my intentions or heart. I am firm in my admonitions because of my desire to prevent further human suffering. Whether one was a smoker or not, no one "deserves" to get COPD or any other sort of disease. No one wants to be in a position where they are confined to live connected to a machine for the breath of life, tubes weighing on their shoulders, unable to sleep comfortably, take showers, easily get up and use the bathroom. No one should experience having a feeding tube put in, unable to eat or drink. No one should be left unable to speak, yell, cry, sing. However, everyone ages eventually. Do EVERYTHING proactive that you can TODAY to try and avoid this type of crisis tomorrow.

Please refer to the following website for additional help: http://www.lung.org/lung-health-and-...ting-copd.html
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Old 02-19-20, 06:22 AM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie80 View Post
Do not ever again apologize for trying to stop people from taking up vaping or cigarettes. ��

I have never smoked in my life. I have never lived with a smoker. Yet, due to a history of pneumonia and two years of exposure to severe environmental toxins, I developed COPD at the age of 37. Think of COPD as the most severe asthma that you could ever imagine on crack. The only end to COPD is a bad end - death from respiratory failure. Have you ever had a really horrible case of bronchitis, choked on a piece of food, or got caught up in a wave out in the ocean, and you couldn't breathe for a matter of moments? Do you recall the fear and anxiety that this experience caused you to feel?

That is what death by respiratory failure feels like. Except the experience of losing that essential need to breathe is extended out into days, months, even years...not a matter of moments. Imagine the worst terror of your life and the loss of all control you feel growing stronger during each minute. Then realize your imagination can't even begin to comprehend the reality of this.

How do I know? I suffered from respiratory failure in March, 2019 due to a combination of flu and pneumonia hitting my COPD-weakened body all at once. I should note that I had been vaccinated against both, but the steroid medication prescribed to me for my lungs to stay a little more open had the price of a destroyed immune system to be paid. I was intubated, put on a ventilator and was induced into a medical coma so that my body could try and heal. My mother was given paperwork from the hospital essentially stating that I was all but dead, and this coma thing was a long shot. She spent an agonizing month wondering if her beloved only child would ever wake up again.

I woke up after five weeks. Waking up from an induced coma and regaining your old level of fundtioning is like trying to come back from a computer crash bad enough to have provided a blue screen of death. Except, there's no new hard drive that can be installed and no memory upgrades. Ten months later, I still haven't been able to learn how to walk again. I spent three months learning to eat again and get off a feeding tube. It took me eight months to be able to speak again in full sentences, as I went from needing the full support of a ventilator to relying on a speaking valve attached to the tracheostomy opening in my neck. The most thrilling moment of 2019 for my mom was at Thanksgiving, when I was finally strong enough to call her on the phone and have a whole conversation. My mother went MONTHS without hearing my voice. This week, I am finally get my trach removed. I still require a small amount of oxygen to breathe on my own, but my recovery is considered an absolute miracle by all of my practitioners.

For the love of all things holy, PLEASE, DEAR GOD, STOP SMOKING OR VAPING TODAY! This is not judgment, this is one human soul begging with another. Please, there is NOTHING, no amount of momentary relief or pleasure or release that smoking or vaping provides you, which can ever make the imprisonment and terror and devastation of lung disease worth it. If I lived only so I could write this and spare one other person and their loved ones this agony, it was not experienced in vain. Don't even potentially put yourself, family or friends through this. Life is hard enough as a healthy person! No one is invincible.
I am sorry you have suffered so much. I smoke and its been very hard to stop since I became and alcoholic and got sober. i have a disposable vape pen that I tried but I am not naive enough to believe this will make me stop smoking because the act of smoking-inhaling-or vaping to me is all the same thing. That said, I know three people that smoked three packs a day and were able to stop by vaping. NJ just banned all flavored vapes and my one friend who was three years clean from cigarettes tried the tobacco flavored vapes because that is all that is allowed here. Within a month she was back to cigarettes. I asked her why and she said the tobacco flavored juice made her crave cigarettes. Why anyone thinks banning flavors will help people who vape instead of smoke is beyond me. The ones who quit with vaping have all told me it was the flavors that helped. This is an article from the NHS:
Quote:
Are e-cigarettes / vapes safer than cigarettes?
E-cigarettes are not completely risk-free, but experts estimate that vaping is at least 95% less harmful than smoking cigarettes. E-cigarette vapour contains some potentially harmful chemicals also found in tobacco smoke, but at much lower levels.

Many people think nicotine is very harmful to health. In fact, although it is addictive, nicotine is relatively harmless: it's the thousands of other chemicals in tobacco smoke that cause almost all the harm from smoking.


I love you all, but if you're offended, tough. It hope what I said nags at you so hard, you quit! :Are e-cigarettes / vapes safer than cigarettes?
E-cigarettes are not completely risk-free, but experts estimate that vaping is at least 95% less harmful than smoking cigarettes. E-cigarette vapour contains some potentially harmful chemicals also found in tobacco smoke, but at much lower levels.

Many people think nicotine is very harmful to health. In fact, although it is addictive, nicotine is relatively harmless: it's the thousands of other chemicals in tobacco smoke that cause almost all the harm from smoking.:

https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/for-your-b...-quit-smoking/
I think the companies that marketed vaping to kids and teens should 100% be accountable. But adults can make their own decisions. Adults choose to drink when there is no health evidence to support alcohol being good for you. And before anyone says those facts about red wine being good for your heart, that has been walked back. Alcohol is never good for you. But is it going to kill everyone? No. People decide to smoke, overeat, drink etc. You cant ban everything because its addictive. In fact I would support more restrictions on alcohol.
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Old 02-20-20, 08:50 AM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

People know the risks if they want to vape let them assess their own risks and vape. At least they are informed. Negligence is when people are not given the correct information with which to make their decision for example the standard western diet. A load of bollocks which they still stand by.

Vapes are here and people have the right to choose to use them. It's unfair to deny people the right to choose even if it is bad for them. Considering that alcohol is sold they can't take the moral high ground over this.
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Old 03-20-20, 06:12 PM
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Re: The vaping hysteria

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I am sorry you have suffered so much. I smoke and its been very hard to stop since I became and alcoholic and got sober. i have a disposable vape pen that I tried but I am not naive enough to believe this will make me stop smoking because the act of smoking-inhaling-or vaping to me is all the same thing. That said, I know three people that smoked three packs a day and were able to stop by vaping. NJ just banned all flavored vapes and my one friend who was three years clean from cigarettes tried the tobacco flavored vapes because that is all that is allowed here. Within a month she was back to cigarettes. I asked her why and she said the tobacco flavored juice made her crave cigarettes. Why anyone thinks banning flavors will help people who vape instead of smoke is beyond me. The ones who quit with vaping have all told me it was the flavors that helped. This is an article from the NHS:



https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/for-your-b...-quit-smoking/
I think the companies that marketed vaping to kids and teens should 100% be accountable. But adults can make their own decisions. Adults choose to drink when there is no health evidence to support alcohol being good for you. And before anyone says those facts about red wine being good for your heart, that has been walked back. Alcohol is never good for you. But is it going to kill everyone? No. People decide to smoke, overeat, drink etc. You cant ban everything because its addictive. In fact I would support more restrictions on alcohol.
I don't believe in banning anything, actually. I bet people not to use,..f regulation, though. The war on drugs is BS. All that did was raise taxes and give lobbyists even more fun to. have. The DEA and FDA are BS. Put those trillions of dollars into education, nursing homes,
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