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  #76  
Old 05-25-18, 10:21 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
Thank you for the links, SB.

1) The researchers report that both genetics and diet affect body weight and
overall health.

Even if we control for diet, won't genetics cause some diseases/disorders?


2) Okay, mice. You mentioned rats and I went with that.


3) Surely it's not necessary to completely eliminate fatty foods.

Limit fatty foods and balance with cholesterol reducing foods.


4) Monkeys and other animals most certainly have empathy.
What part does empathy play in your "mind of morality"
which you have yet to define?
1) Unfortunately it's agreed that 'soft inheritance' (environmental inheritance) and 'hard inheritance' can't be deciphered - so genetics could easily be environmental in nature.

2) Yes - the article mentioned rats - it was wrong and linked to a paper on yeast I think.

3) We need calories - I generally advocate for low GI organic veggies + cold pressed omega-3 / MUFA ie hemp and olive oil - I do not advocate for an elimination of fat. I do advocate for an absence in cholesterol consumption though. Why ? Eating animals is wrong. How about saturated fat ? Can come from vegan sources - but EVCO drives me to asthma (inflammation) - whereas the MCT component doesn't - so pretty sure sat fat LCT is a problem - whether of vegan source or not.
I test anything I advocate for ie I can eat the foods I list w/o allergic reactions - that's my n=1 test. It works though - nearly exploded on EVCO with a violent asthma reaction.

4) Not really thinking about monkeys - all ideas relate to human beings.
If forced to ask how morality relates to animals ? Would need a social species to define the equivalent of a moral framework - but it's not really moral - it's just the same end consequence of 'morality' - but rephrased in animals without abstract capacity.
So - I'm suggesting that morality on an individual / collective level --> social species (man) ... ... pick another social species and you've an (in effect) 'moral' species. Are there any social species without hierarchy ? Don't know.
If this is true
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikiP/sociality
A eusocial taxon is one that exhibits ...a biological caste system.
Then the flat structure of equality of man that I'm advocating for doesn't translate to the animal kingdom. Don't know enough about hierarchy in social animals.
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  #77  
Old 05-25-18, 10:34 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

So once again
1) Science made an error in its assessment of 'genetic'
2) I talked to a mouse transgenics expert years ago from the laboratory that came up with the technique - she was working on generating rat transgenics which were (at least back then) hard to generate - don't know if they're easier now. I don't have access to any publications other than the freely available ones currently.
3) Fat is the higher food source - but 'fat' comes in a range of lengths, saturation level and states of oxidation (to cooking) - only looking at cold pressed olive and cp hemp oil - and cp avocado oil too - as suitable. I'm using myself as the experimental model.
So uncooked cold pressed MUFA, MCT sat and omega-3 rich.
4) Human beings are a major step away from monkeys - I guess we'd be fine if there were 1 'King' and everybody else fell into place and knew their place - thing is - it that any human being could be King - and tries ... ... such hideous competition then follows whereby the psychopath with least conscience wins - which is, of course, not a good thing.
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  #78  
Old 05-25-18, 10:56 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
which you have yet to define?
Get all people to sit down and talk about what they want - and the model which is left which they ALL agree that they want is the model of 'mind of morality' - so it's relatively easy to arrive at - I can define it for you if you like - but anybody can.

Everybody needs to have access to what we know they need for an optimal life.
Social and Medical Epidemiology are key here.

So - a mind of morality is a mind which sees the need for the sentence directly above.

All that you need is a mind which can work out what a healthy mind, body and spirit require to function and then to roll out to all people.

People can do it by themselves - would prefer not to make a huge long list yet again which features sustainable water, sustainable energy, proper foods for all through sustainable methods - all people in it together, elegant automation .. ... ... all the standard things.

A mind of morality is a mind which is customized towards the needs of the species as a whole.
You need to counter logic like - the entire planet would be better off if individual 1 was given the key to all of the food and then handed it out as he wished.

It's surprisingly hard to counter that form of logic - so do it by consensus - ie formulate a list and allow people to remove/add to it until a general consensus is formed.

I could do this in 5 minutes - but there's no point - as other people need to want that world also - before it'll work - and once they do - they then could perform the exercise in 5 minutes also ... ... ... so the trick 'd be to work out how to get an individual to want a world in which all prosper.

This occurs if the individual commits to a personal/group enquiry into the nature of a world in which all people 'd be happy - the consequence of trying to specify that world gives rise to a type of mind which actually wants it.

How do you stop yourself from making ridiculous statements ?
Evidence.
I think that all people would be happy if they were allowed to sit in an oven set on maximum.
Prove it then.

What if your evidence is flawed ?
Someone will offer better evidence.

What if you're fighting against a vested interest ?
Eg RA Fisher/cigarette lobby say that cigarettes do not cause cancer - defeats evidence. You need somebody who has NO vested interest in the outcome.

Do I have a vested interest in either a hierarchical or a flat society ?
No.

Do people who are on the top of their field have an interest in a hierarchical society ? Of course

The power (to change) is inadvertently incapable of entertaining the prospect of change. To acquire addiction to power (imagine addiction to alcohol or heroin) is to be of a sort that will not give up alcohol or heroin without a fight.

Is it likely that there are some people who climb to the top of their disciplines with a principled stance to topple the system ? Possibly.

It would be easier to break hierarchy from position of hierarchy - all that's required is insight into the nature of the individual who arises through hierarchy - eg principled hierarchy should realise that unprincipled hierarchy only wants to gain ever more power/money through interaction - so will need to make unprincipled hierarchy that there's something to gain from funding a principled project.

Unprincipled hierarchy is 'thick' and so can be played by principled hierarchy.

A good way of seeing this - is that unprincipled hierarchy contains the mind of a 5 year old child - ever so easy to make them do what you'd like them to do - as long as they think that they'll be getting a payout for it.
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  #79  
Old 05-25-18, 11:02 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
The solution to all human problems arise through people making the journey to individual wisdom (through morality) in a global environment characterized by morality/wisdom.
alles klar ?
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  #80  
Old 05-25-18, 11:30 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by post#1
Trying to make the conclusion a little simpler - that distress on a few different levels (particularly psychological stress through having meaningless goals in life) leads to a chain of events in which inflammation and pre-mature ageing to the diseases of Western living occur ?
Here's what we need to provide evidence

Assessment of distress

May 2018
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...06453017304791

Test - Athos monastery set
Control - Matched to North Americans
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  #81  
Old 05-25-18, 11:33 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
a
Department of Psychiatry, Psychosomatics and Psychotherapy, University Hospital of Wuerzburg, Margarete-Hoeppel-Platz 1, Wuerzburg, 97080, Germany
b
Comprehensive Heart Failure Center, University Hospital of Wuerzburg, Am Schwarzenberg 15, Wuerzburg, 97080, Germany
Ja, alles klar :-)
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  #82  
Old 05-25-18, 11:48 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
Get all people to sit down and talk about what they want - and the model which is left which they ALL agree that they want is the model of 'mind of morality' - so it's relatively easy to arrive at - I can define it for you if you like - but anybody can.

Everybody needs to have access to what we know they need for an optimal life.
Social and Medical Epidemiology are key here.

So - a mind of morality is a mind which sees the need for the sentence directly above.

All that you need is a mind which can work out what a healthy mind, body and spirit require to function and then to roll out to all people.

People can do it by themselves - would prefer not to make a huge long list yet again which features sustainable water, sustainable energy, proper foods for all through sustainable methods - all people in it together, elegant automation .. ... ... all the standard things.

A mind of morality is a mind which is customized towards the needs of the species as a whole.
You need to counter logic like - the entire planet would be better off if individual 1 was given the key to all of the food and then handed it out as he wished.

It's surprisingly hard to counter that form of logic - so do it by consensus - ie formulate a list and allow people to remove/add to it until a general consensus is formed.

I could do this in 5 minutes - but there's no point - as other people need to want that world also - before it'll work - and once they do - they then could perform the exercise in 5 minutes also ... ... ... so the trick 'd be to work out how to get an individual to want a world in which all prosper.

This occurs if the individual commits to a personal/group enquiry into the nature of a world in which all people 'd be happy - the consequence of trying to specify that world gives rise to a type of mind which actually wants it.

How do you stop yourself from making ridiculous statements ?
Evidence.
I think that all people would be happy if they were allowed to sit in an oven set on maximum.
Prove it then.

What if your evidence is flawed ?
Someone will offer better evidence.

What if you're fighting against a vested interest ?
Eg RA Fisher/cigarette lobby say that cigarettes do not cause cancer - defeats evidence. You need somebody who has NO vested interest in the outcome.

Do I have a vested interest in either a hierarchical or a flat society ?
No.

Do people who are on the top of their field have an interest in a hierarchical society ? Of course

The power (to change) is inadvertently incapable of entertaining the prospect of change. To acquire addiction to power (imagine addiction to alcohol or heroin) is to be of a sort that will not give up alcohol or heroin without a fight.

Is it likely that there are some people who climb to the top of their disciplines with a principled stance to topple the system ? Possibly.

It would be easier to break hierarchy from position of hierarchy - all that's required is insight into the nature of the individual who arises through hierarchy - eg principled hierarchy should realise that unprincipled hierarchy only wants to gain ever more power/money through interaction - so will need to make unprincipled hierarchy that there's something to gain from funding a principled project.

Unprincipled hierarchy is 'thick' and so can be played by principled hierarchy.

A good way of seeing this - is that unprincipled hierarchy contains the mind of a 5 year old child - ever so easy to make them do what you'd like them to do - as long as they think that they'll be getting a payout for it.
You quoted this line . . .

Quote:
A monkey would probably never agree that it is better to give than to receive
So I included monkeys in my response.

Yes, anyone can define morality, but will all those definitions be the same?

I wanted to know how you define it since you brought it up here.

Thank you for sharing your definition.

It seems I was on track with thinking it's related to having empathy.

Unfortunately, society seems to value logic (thinking) over empathy (feeling)

so I wonder how to begin to get people to use their empathy (moral mind).
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  #83  
Old 05-25-18, 12:48 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

simply reward it.
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  #84  
Old 05-25-18, 12:48 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

simple reward reinforcement
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  #85  
Old 05-25-18, 12:58 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

monetary based world - rewarded for kicking your neighbour down
A monkey would probably never agree that it is better to give than to receive

moneyless world - rewarded in another way.
A monkey would probably never agree that it is better to give than to receive
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  #86  
Old 05-25-18, 01:01 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

The simple mechanism of arriving at a species defined by empathy would be to remove the factor (power (money)) which prevents people from working together as equals.

...Suzanne Vega...'Queen and the Soldier' ...
If the Queen does not much like what she's hearing,
Then 'off with your head'
...Lewis Carroll...'Ask Alice'...
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  #87  
Old 05-26-18, 12:43 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

So - main theme here.
Line between eustress and distress.
EUSTRESS good
DISTRES bad

Solution - connecting two major ideas

[1]
Glucocorticoids play an important biphasic role in modulating neural plasticity; low doses enhance neural plasticity and spatial memory behavior, whereas chronic, higher doses produce inhibition. We found that 3 independent measures of mitochondrial function—mitochondrial oxidation, membrane potential, and mitochondrial calcium holding capacity—were regulated by long-term corticosterone (CORT) treatment in an inverted “U”-shape.
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/9/3543


1.Acute Exposure - sensitivity <- good -> eustress
2.Chronic Exposure - resistance <- bad -> distress

Simply - you NEED the freedom to walk away when the fun stops - otherwise sensitivity -->-- resistance.

The goal is sufficient but not too much.

Sufficient is only achieved through having complete control over when to stop.

To have voluntary control - we need a voluntary society in which NO man gets to tell any other man/child what to do.

The logical conclusion of all research on man - is to arrive at a flat-structured human society.

Equality.
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  #88  
Old 05-26-18, 12:46 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Conclusions.

1. For optimal health - we do need to do 'something'
2. Eustressful exposure is difficult to assess unless it's by the individual him/herself
3. When forced to do anything eustress crosses over into distress easily
4. The underlying motivation though, to define one's own presence in eustress requires the individual to be motivated appropriately - ie to better self and not to beat others.


This arises ... ... ...
Quote:
The solution to all human problems arise through people making the journey to individual wisdom (through morality) in a global environment characterized by morality/wisdom.
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Old 05-26-18, 12:52 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

--- Bringing it all together ---
There is nothing wrong with man.
We are made up of complex machines - and we're free to investigate them - but only for purely academic reasons.
The logic should not be that through defining them that we will be able to change ourselves in a way to make ourselves better.
Human beings can become better by simply embracing the mechanism of eustress - which occurs through immersion in a society in which reward reinforcement through money/power is removed (the reward system of the animal that wants to be better than other human beings) and we put in its place (this occurs naturally on removal of the need for money) - the motivation in people to be the best that they can be.

We are in the midst of the emergence of a new type of human being characterized by informational sensitivity. This new type can not pay attention to beating other people - because this brings no sense of satisfaction. This new type ie learning orientated - where learning is used in the sense of the ever improvement in personal quality through engagement in eustress.

Eustress is not consistent with a monetary-based economy / hierarchical society.

We help one another to be the best that we all can be.

The new specification of new man.

Homo neosapiens sapienses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stabile View Post
yah, I like that.

H. sapiens neosapiens?

Or perhaps H. neosapiens sapienses…
-- Stephen Hawking
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Old 05-26-18, 05:32 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

What do I want to know ?
Why can't I force my mind to pay attention to nonsense ? (the pointless things that people do in the workplace)

Is it good to be able to pay attention to nonsense ?

If one knows that something's nonsense, wouldn't it be idea if our mind then refused to pay attention to it ?

Yes it would - but not if everyone else can.

-*-

We can't store anything more than the smallest subset of information relative to a computer.
Human memory is poor compared to a computer.

As the body of knowledge increases - perhaps our memory shifts to pointers rather than the data structure itself.
Too much information otherwise.

A data structure of pointers.
I can't remember but I have notes.
Write everything down.

Would make sense.


This would make the ADDer mind - a mind from first principles - which is true.
I need to re-derive everything back to its root - nothing cna be taken for granted.
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