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Old 05-16-09, 12:58 AM
Yellow Yellow is offline
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Question snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,thanks

hey desoxyn people

i am on

15mg Dex - 3x a day
50mg pristiq
.25mg-1.5mg klonopin - bedtime and/or as needed

basically, i have adhd, depression, and low anxiety

pristiq is an sn(d)ri with the majority of the mechanism focusing on serotonin, the ratio of Serotonin:Norepinephrine reuptake inhibition is 1:9, like duloxetine/cymbalta. Its dopamine reuptake inhibition is very slight, but it exists.

zoloft is an ssri that is considered to have quite potent da action in high doses (300mg i belleive), and effexor (pristiqs primary chemical) is known for potent reuptake of norepinpehrine in high doses (400mg?) with slight dopamine reuptake. im not certaion but i think effexor's SE:NE ratio is lower than pristiq's considerably something like 1:30...so that means the dopamine reuptake is even less.

but since pristiq is a basically a much better balanced and more potent and i guess 'cleaner' SNRI, would that imply that its dopamine reuptake would be more than effexors?

in any case, my point is that pristiq effects all of the transmitters that desoxyn targets...so my question is:

Can someone take pristiq with desoxyn? Would pristiq offer neuroprotection from desoxyn's toxicity? What would the effect be? and most importantly

IS ANYONE ON BOTH AN SSRI/SNRI/NDRI/SNDRI AND DESOXYN?

Pristiq and dex is a great combination, but after reading all of the desoxyn users comparison of the more subtle effect of desoxyn, i am thinking of possibly trying it in the future. i do like dex's help, but i am thinking of something a bit less stimulating while still offering wakefuleness (anti-lethargy/apathy) and concentration and focus. it seems that desoxyn provides dex's benefits without some of its undesirable side effects(such as the slight NE increase, sometime a little anxious, hence klonopin) and it lasts longer too right? instead of 3 dosings that might be something i woldnt mind down the road...anyway, im just curious about it now that ive learned about it.

i wasnt aware of its existence until really posting and discussing things in the dex forum, which has been so unbeleivably helpful for me that i honestly dont know what i would do without having found this site.

i really hate computers, internet, and like the whole concept of virtual interaction (tho i admit its kinda like a phone in a way, but stil...i just wanna hear or see someone when i talk), anyway i really am greatful for this forum and i appreciate the members sharing and honesty of their experiences because it is through that that i have been able to understand whats going on with me, learn through it, and finally getting close and closer to feeling "normal." if i didnt come to this site, i would have given up on meds that i really needed a long time ago, but the information saved me. anyway, thats off topic (obviously its 12:30am, and since i wake up at 8, the dex has long worn off and my adhd is back, reminding me to sleep...i kinda missed it, NOT! lol)

i am sensitive to stimulants. i cannot drink caffeine or energy drinks like guarana and whatever else those crazy drinks have. i have stayed far away from recreational substances like cocaine and meth for the very reasons that i stay away from legal caffeine and stimulants like this. i just am sensitive i guess.

now, i have tried all types of amphetamine brands (shire dex and adderall, barr dex and adderall, and in different variations of pill strengths, doses and release). i couldnt take adderrall of any kind because of the levo and racemic mixture: anxiogenic problems. dextroamphetamine saved me tho! exaggeration but really, its great. [note: i stayed away from methylphenidate because of so many bad things ive heard from posts and then science journals, it sounded like a possible health risk to me. ]

the only thing that i have stuck with is 5mg barr generic brand dextroamphetamine this far, and i intend on sticking with it if it continues to work this way for a while. i guess you can call this a combination of my interest in psychopharmacology (i HIGHLY recommend reading stephen stahl's essentials of pscyhopharmacology, i actually lent it to my psychiatrist to read as it is the newest edition and its really really informative. it has helped both me and my psych come to a combination that is as synergistic that i could hope for) combined with a pre-emptive attempt at looking at possibilities because:

tho the dex is great, i have a slight issue with it. its nothing to complain about but its something thats on my mind since i finally feel SO CLOSE to getting to feeling how ive idealized that i could. i was always resistant to meds, but reading and sites like this have changed me. anyway (sorry i realized i went offtopic again) as smooth as dex is (in comparison to adderall), i still sometimes get undesirable side effects, and klonopin helps this, but it also somewhat dulls the effectiveness.

as i said 15mg is my dose. now (under my dr's permission) i tried 20mg a few times. i think this is really my therapuetic dosing window, but at this level i feel "high". i dont like that in the same way that i do not like the PNS and anxiety side effects of adderall. at 15mg dex is hardly noticable, i just do what i have to, however, i sometimes get TOO engaged where interuption can make me irritable and i sometimes get easily annoyed with whoever did it, you know, its not cool.

also the opposite tends to happen more frequently. i feel forced into doing something that i begin or think of(that i really dont have to, such as my hobbies or a random errand or chore that has been put off because it isnt important whatsoever), i feel like i GOTTA do something.

The fluctation between these modes is not an every dose thing, but i dont like when it does happen. meanwhile, 20 mg is more effective, but i dont want to get attached to it. i dont want the euphoria or whatever else to make me an addict. i hear many get addicted to dex, and i barely take my klonopin as is for fear of addiction/dependence so to end this whole dibackle:

i want to see if desoxyn can actually do for me what it did to the others here that have switched from other amphetanine meds (for either similar or other reasons). objective is to find something that stimulates my brain without bodily desire for action. i want to be focused, interested, and engaged in my work, but i do not want to be franticaly involved. simply, i want the wakefulness, clarity, focus, and energy/motivation WITHOUT feeling like have to always move to get something done. in a phrase: relaxed focus.

So please post responses, thoughts, suggestions, ideas, any feedback on my interpretation of med responses and if this combinatino of an SNRI with desoxyn is done/safe/heard of/beneficial...

THank you for reading, and i once again, i appreciate the honesty and openness shared herein. GOODNIGHT, off to sleep...
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Old 05-16-09, 10:40 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

oh i forgot to add: another goal (besides the "relaxed focus") implies getting rid of the klonopin. i would much rather just take 2 meds (pristiq + desoxyn) than the 3 i am taking, i would really like to lose the benzo...i mean as with adhd meds, the abuse/addiction potential is something id rather have outa sight, outa mind. if desoxyn can give the same mental effects of dex without the physical stimulation, i think i could eliminate klonopin. its less meds, less dosing, less tax on my body (unlesss desoxyn is actually more harmful than klonopin, idk,) but to me, it would make sense to eliminate a drug if i can.
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Old 05-18-09, 11:02 AM
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Attn moderator

MODERATOR, hello there. since no one is responding at all lol, please edit this thread title and posts so that someone might be more willing to read or respond because i think the title is not inviting and the post might be a little too long (especially for an ADD forum lol).

please change this thread title to "Desoxyn with SSRI/SNRI's"

please also edit the first post by merging it with the second, and simply put this on top of everything so that people can just read this and respond and if they want, they can read what im asking more specifically about me:

"Is it safe to take Desoxyn with an SNRI/SSRI/NRI/NDRI or any SE/NE/DA reuptake inhibitor? Does anyone take this combination? If so, what do you take, what dose, and what are the effects? Does it prevent neurotoxicity?

---------------------------------------------------------My personal history--------------------------------------------------------:"

...followed by the first post and second post (merged). Please do this if you can, and if you cant cuz its difficult or not editable please tell me, ill just make a different thread altogether. THANKS VERY MUCH, bye
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Old 05-18-09, 11:50 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

yellow , is pristiq sedating? I have tried cymbalta but I was so sleepy temporarily, it's hard to stick with things when they make your adhd worse.
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Old 05-18-09, 12:24 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

actually its not but initially it was, i was extremely drowsy for the first few days, yawning constantly for almost a week. about 3 days into it, i noticed slight mood improvement but i was tired. 5 days into it, the mood enhancement remained but i wasnt yawning as much. After a week, I had more normal energy and eventually more energy then i used to in general afterwards. Pristiq was actually great man, the only AD ive ever liked and stuck with. I hear its nothing at all like cymbalta although they have the same SE:NE reuptake ratio. give it a shot if you were hopeful about cymbalta but didnt like it. pristiq also has some dopamine reuptake inhibition, i dont know if cymbalta does (it probably might) but its not significant.

honestly, pristiq increases dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, in the way that strattera does also, but it didnt help much with ADHD, but it didnt make it worse either. so thats something to consider if u didnt like cymbalta.

What anti depressant and dose do you take now ? Are you on desoxyn or another med (and what dose)?
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Old 05-18-09, 01:26 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

yellow,

I currently take concerta in addition to ( wellbutrin) the problem that I have is that I metabolize fast but as you know stress and daily ruminating can cause differentials in the way your body is metabolizing , so if I were relaxed I may actually require a lower dose of time released ritalin. I hope to trial adderall xr with ir dexedrine eventually but I self assess so much now it's ridiculous and find myself always going back to concerta. Wellbutrin helps lift my depression and brings back motivation but it doesn't assist my worry thoughts that are routine on the job. While I'm at work I feel tired and fatigued, when I'm not at work I do not feel any fatigue. Additionally, while I was on cymbalta I felt happier about life, but I felt sleepy and lazy as well... it kind of put in me in a tough position because my adhd was a bit worse temporarily. I need to break out of this circle and stick with a med that will help me relax, not think based on emotion and just let my meds work without consuming myself with why can't I get out of this job and move on with my life and become smart once again. Wellbutrin helps , but a piece of the puzzle is still missing and it's annoying the crap out of me. From what I hear pristiq is similar ? So, has it helped you tremendously? The good thing about having adhd is alot of times we are not truly depressive types , but if we do get mentally stuck stimulants can cause us to ruminate about the things that are bothering us, and that is where I am currenlty. I appreciate your feedback
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Old 05-18-09, 11:57 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Also as far as honesty goes, im psychotic bipolar WITH Adhd, so im not necessarily always depressed, but my adhd makes me not be able to get anything done which is depressing and then my bipolar makes everything worse. I tried antipsychotics/mood stabilizers and i will never again, they are poison that should only be used to really dull down a psychotic individual who hurts others. on the other hand, i responded nearly instantly to pristiq. it is rather strange, but within days, the improvement was profound. what it lacked was the focus/concentration/motivation, as wellbutrin lacks (my father takes wellbutrin for depression, thinking it will help with energy and focus, but hes always disappointed).

First thigns first, i think wellbutrin is not a good drug if you have any anxiety whatsoever, drop wellbutrin. if by "worry thoughts" you mean anxiety or nervousness, lose wellbutrin. i would just lost it period. if u dont have anxiety tho, and the dpression is helped by wellbutrin, think about this.

Ritalin is an (N)DRI, but its more potent and shorter acting than wlllbutrin. wellbutrin structure is similar to amphetamine and ive read of overdose cases where people took grams of wellbutrin to get an amphetamine rush and they probably did so, but it was in the emergency room. wellbutrin at significant DRI levels can cause seizurs (450mg) Ritalin on the other hand doesnt do this, My point is one ritalin and wellbutrin do the same thing (almost) but ritalin is much better for AD/HD. its supposed to be for that. wellbutrin is an antidepressant for people who dont respond to SSRI treatment, which is common. wellbutrins not for adhd at all. its for atypical depression.

if ssri's dont work, SNRI's usually do the trick, and ndris are last call, but you didnt like cymalta. I would still suggest trying pristiq cuz honestly, its too awesome not too give it a shot, i really really recommend it highly. i was totally ANTI meds, but now that ive been on pristiq for a li while, i dont even care if i never get off. ANyway, since ritalin is an NDRI for ADHD, and wellbutrin is a weak NDRI,and i mean very weak DRI,most of it works on norepinphrine, lose wellbutrin and stick with ritalin. then add in pristiq for the antidepressant. or whatever else, but ritalin is what u need for ur smytpms.

now to be honest. i say screw MPH altogether, and get DEX. it took me 4 brands (about) and pill dose experiments to get it right, but after everything, dex 5mg barr is my answer. I really cant beleive i like taking my meds now, like i dont mind at all, i used to be like "oh man now im a drug addict addicted to amphetamine and antidpressants, my life is now only headed down", but now that ive adjusted to everything, ive never felt better. PRSTIQ is the KEY COMPONENT THO. It set up the correct evnironment for dex to work, and now i have my mood/functioning monamine nerotransmitteers in check....SNRI + DOPAMINE. MY depression is stablized with the pristiq, my mania is controlled by klonopin, and my adhd, mood, and functioing is topped off by dex.

plus no neurotoxcitiy with this combo (supposedly) as excess dopamine from amphetamine gets reuptaken into norepinphrine cells causing toxicity, and then some norepinpehrine can get sucked into serotonin causin SERT toxicity, so the SNRI keeps the pumps from getting screwed up, and i think pristiq's VERY VERY slight dopamine reuptake also keeps the dex in check. you know, i dont get any rushes like the euphoria that some people talk about. i just get focused, stable, and into what i gotta do.



i switch docs like i switch cell phone numbers (thats often btw). however, with this psych, i aint goin NOWHERE. hes excellent, excellent. truly a great doctor and i didnt think these kind of psychs existed, ive only had quacks up till this guy. by quack i mean:

dr "whats wrong with you?"
me.."i dont feel well and..."
dr...."ok, heres a sample and a prescription, call me if you need to ask a questions....".
me..."um ok, can i ask a quest-"
dr..."TRY THE PRESCRIPTION AND CALL ME IF THERES AN EMERGENCY..." with a nod and a glance towards the door

now of course not exactly. i wont get into therapists, but my first psycdoc at 15/16 that my parents brought me to asked me why i was there. iwas there cuz my parents dropped me off dick. from there, he should have taken control. first of all i didnt even know what anxiety or depression was, let alone the serious problem of adhd, so i told him i got nervous alot and that i had trouble sitting still in class. so then he asks ME which of my problems I wanted to treat, as if i knew what they were anyway. DUH i was 15/16, and hes askin me what i should do? hey doc maybe do your job and try to assess the situation and treat what you think is more problematic. Celexa didnt work, paxil didnt work, and i gave up with him and his SSRI nonsense.

on to pysch 2 at 19/20: within minutes of meeting her i could tell she was going to be aproblem. now i was also ****ed off at my parents for makin me go again, but someone had spread a rumor about me, my parents heard it and i was sent to make surei was OK! well a "freind" got caught with things that he shouldnt have had byhis parents, and since i was not cool with him (we had an argument and i didnt talk to him to the point that he got caught) he pinned it on me. now this kids father knows my uncle, so when he saw him he said hows your son, he says my sons fine, why do you ask, my uncle says "oh your son and my nephew are freinds", so this dick goes "no theyre not, my son would never hang out with a kid that does --------------", so my old school uncle was like WHAT and told my mom, my mom hears, calls upa psych, tells her what " i did" and i walked into a setup. i got ****ed because i knew what was goin on, answered in ways i shouldnt, and got bipolar right then and thre: SEROQUEL. well after 2 pills, that ended that experiment (PS i found out later that despite patientdr confidentiality, and iwas over 18, she was teellin my parents EVERYTHING and she included stuff in my file that wasnt true, such as the reason i was there which came from my parents mouth, and i had to confirm this and had to amke sure she took it out of medical records cuz that could be potentially a problem if it ever came out, and i told her id sue for malpractice if she didnt take it out, as i never said it and she heard it from my mother who heard it from my uncle who heard it on hearsay...so bad time again)

psych 3: now this guys a real winner. he was from china, and he could barely speak english. i mean simply verbs, nouns, and if your lucky, and adjective. no idea how to use prepositions or construct sentences. HE could count cash very well tho. so i walk in and within 3 minutes, he assures me i have adhd. now i already knew this, but he doesnt. four minutes into the "intake" he asks me "do you want ritalin or adderall?". im like wow, this guys nuts! well i was only familiar with adderall, and i didnt know anyone who took ritalin, so i said adderall...barr adderall. BIG MISTAKE. didnt try it again.

i looked up online, found out about dex (i googled something like "Adderall without side effects" or something like that) and a post from www.dr-bob.org came up. it explained how dexamphetamine doesnt have the other 3 adderall salts and is much smoother,cleaner, and a better experience

i printed this out brought it in and told him i wanted to try this instead. he said he NEVER HEARD OF IT, perhaps the oldest amphetamine in the world and the classical prototype of stim meds. so he looks in his little (chinese/english) drug book, and finds dextroamphetamine, looks at what the book tells him to prescribe (10mg a day) and gives me that without hesitation. this took about 4 minutes.

i tried dextrostat and it was MUCH better. however, still not right. he wouldnt help any further, no anti depressants, no benzos, no alpha blockers, not even a valerian root or diphenhydramine suggestion.

psych 4: another asian dude, he spoke english though. i walked in and he said your bipolar. heres depakote and klonopin. well depakote is pretty much wors than bipolar and i didnt even take seroquel so that was that for that. klonopin however, stops my episodes or makes them very very downtuned. its enough of a sedative and mood stabilizer instead of using an antipsych. actually first line protocal is to give manic/schizos in the middle of episodes klonopin immediately (usually, they also sometimes use lorezepam or xanax, but kpin is #1) so i found something along the way again with this guy

revist to psych 3: i told him that i wanted to go back on dex and he wanted to be paid for an intake fee (keep in mind, i didnt see him in about 4 months) to reevaluate my adhd. i didnt know what he was talking about cuz his english is really unintelligble so i said well my insurance said they would pay for 10 visits, and ive seen you about three times, so i still have 7 left, so i dont see a problem. for the first time since i met him, he smiled and began his evaluation: "why did you stop treatment? why do you think you still have adhd? how did u function without the meds? why do you need them now?" after answering these basic questions that were useless, he said "ok i still think you have adhd, heres your prescription".....i said "wait, i wanted to know if u can help my anxiety issues as well and i told him that i saw a dr in the meantime and requestedzoloft and klonopin to help my anxiety and mood. i didnt take zoloft buti head it was greaet and i was open to a new ssri, and kpin was taking .25-.5mg a day, so were talking like NOTHING at all, no tolerancebuildup no addiction or habit formation, no problems and i brought the bottle with me. he said HAHAHAHA NO. only dex....then he called me th next daytelling me that my insurance wasnt going to pay a re-eval and he said i had to pay him immediately. i said i dint know what he was talking about and i called my insurance. they explained his nonsense, that he wanted 350 dollars (instead of the 150 regular appt fee for a 5 minute session, literally) cuz he needed to make sure i still had adhd, like it goes away. so i told them hes a quack, he did no reintake and he only saw me for 5 minutes before showing me the door, i said to them dont listen to him, and they said, we thought so , thank you and dont worry about the bill, well take care ofhim. they sent him the usual visit fee and he didnt like that, he wanted the 200 from me. he called harassing me (i dont know if it was english or chinese still) but i knew he wanted money so i told him he was trying to take advantage of me and my insurance, first of all not speaking properly so i wouldnt understand that he would need extra money (for no reason), and the i told him to take a hike. he got his 150 and i never heard from him again

psych 5: finally! this guy listens, he discusses options, he doesn judge, he observes and diagnosis, and each time i go, he has more to explain the diagnosis which he said is subject to change. FINALLY, someone who agrees that i possibly dont have bipolar (tho i may be psychotic). the pristiq stops my depression totally, i dont linger in the doldrums, even when i dont take klonopin or dex. and dex activates me. Ive read a lot on psychopharmacology, and i own a few books. Stephen Stahls' essentials of psychopharmacology is considered to be one of the best "well rounded" psych med books on the market, its not the best techncal resource, but its not the worst, and hes a great writer with very nice diagrams included. anyway, by reading this, i saw the relation between my conditions, and i was able to come up with a very intelligent design scheme that my dr, who asked to borrow my book lol, confirmed and agreed to try. I HAVE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER AND IVE NEVER MADE THOSE AROUND ME HAPPIER. (also he works hand in hand with my therapist, so im gettin 2 people to work on my meds so maybe that helps)

my girlfriend feels like im the old me again, my parents love my new found interaction and communciation with them, my professors have all said what a difference ive been making from the begining of the semester to the end, which was jsut now (and i have 6 months left before i get my Masters degree so im pleasd with that). I cant say i woulda been able to do it so easily or at all without trying these different drugs, READING AND EDUCATING MYSELF, and then finding an open minded doctor who not only cares, but is willing to learn from his patients.

Bottom line hollywood: DRop Wellbutrin, stick with ritalin, and supplement the antidepressant with something else. I highly recommend pristiq, followed by zoloft (prozac also has some interesting pharmacological properties as well, but those are my choice for SNRI and SSRI). If you havent tried strattera or robaxetine, you can check it out, but i wouldnt be too hopeful. my real suggestion would be to get pristiq + dex though, pristiq is 1 tablet XR in the morning, and i take 5mg barr pills, which are the only generic dex i would ever touch.

i hope this helps a little bit, and i said a lot so if u have any specific questions, hit me up or post or whatever

btw, i was just livin on the west coast for lil while b4 comin back to the city, where u at round hollywood? thats a crazy town man, crazier than here
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Old 05-19-09, 07:09 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

oh btw, i noticed your post in the adderall forum or dex forum, i forgot which it was, i was gonna tell you to look at it "Wellbutrin as culprit" or something liek that, but you actually responded to it and i think you said that not only did u not like wellbutrin but you wanted to stick with adderall or dex over concerta, but u didnt cuza wellbutrin....well with that in mind, and your general reaction to it, really man, get rida wellbutrin cuz it sounds like you really dont like it, and either get back that adderall, and like i said, if anxiety is a problem, i would try dexedrine instead first if uve already tried adderall. anxiety could be greatly reduced with an SSRI/SNRI addon and can give the brain some possible neuroprotection from the dexamphetamine which should be less anxiogenic than both MPH and addy.

then of course, the reason im posting here, there's desoxyn, which supposedly gives all the improvements of dex without any residual phsycial/anxieogenic stim at all, which might side step both my usage of klonopin and possibly pristiq (i think, the less meds the better personally, and if treating one symptom totally can lessen other problems, so be it), however, what i wanna eliminate at this point is klonopin.

but in all honesty, im so pleased with pristiq's general (subtle) affect on my entire mind, that id much rather stay on pristiq and dex together than to just get desoxyn alone, which is why i want to know if i can take pristiq or an SSRI/SNRI with desoyxn. if i cant, then i dont think id even try desoxyn at this point in my life, definitely down the line if my adhd becomes more the problem than depression or anxiety as i get older and more stablizied (mayb witha career and a family?> who knows)

anyway pristiq is more valuable, and more significant to my general well being and overall health (not to mention its not toxic at all, though amphetamine isnt toxic, it definitely is taxing) on top of the fact that it makes DEX work so much better and takes away any of my worries about neurotoxicity (even if its in my head), but i did mention that taking dex inthe prescence of pristiq was the best way ive taken ANY form of ANY ADHD drug, and the combination is all that i need right now.

NOw for some reason, NO ONE seems to post much here, at least they wont respond to my simple question of this combo, and i wish the moderator would edit the post or change the title as i requested to maybe get a reponse, but hey, wucha gonna do?

ill just ask my dr at some point anyway, like i said tho pristiq and dex works so well together that i dont really need to know now (my original post said that it really was for my future use and knowledge).

dont get me wrong: im not a pristiq rep at all lol. i actually would recommend you check out zoloft. speaking of which, someone asked a very similar question as you so ill post it here, since the idiot i replied to (The original poster of this particular thread) is just a drug seeking moron trying to see if he can get a meth tweak high if he combined an SSRI+Wellbutrin+Damphetmaine, which you cant, but hes an idiot who wasted my time in replying to him cuz i thought i could help, maybe you can get benefit HOLLYWOOD:

That combination is a bad idea. period. for many reasons, but heres my first post from the original thread:

that much wellbutrin with dex might be a bad idea, like possible seizure risk. i would definitely keep wellbutrin to a low dose, since its SR, i dont think u can split those pills. i would definitely ask for a lower dose, and that might require IR or XR....just lower the wellbutrin because the dex is doing almost the same thing at a much much higher potency.

the luvox sounds fine but there might be better meds for you as far as anxiolytic/antianxiety SSRI/SNRI's ill list this from another post:

SSRIs in my order of anxiolytic strength
#1 zoloft -can be activating with SLIGHT Dopamine reuptake
#2 paxil -slight Norepinephire reuptake which can acutally increase dopamine in freontal cortex but also sedating because of anticholinergic effect, so its like a very weak SNRI
#3 luvox -if zoloft doesnt work and u dont want slight sedation from paxil, id try this
#4 prozac -it can also slightly release Dopamine and norepinpehrine, but if your taking adderall, its negligble probably
(lexapro and celexa arent for anxiety, just depression)

SNRI = Pristiq. after all my research (including reading Stahl's Essential Pscyhopharmacology) and my own trials with a few of the ssri's, i think this is the best antidepressant/anti anxiety (anxiolytic) available. i would try this first before anything else seriously. one dose, 50mg, no titration. it worked for me within 3 days, i was amazed as SSRI's didnt too much for me after a whole month.

if your anxiety is really bad, adderall wont help much for that, but DEX can solve ur ADHD without much anxiety added to it.

If I were you, I would ask about Pristiq with Dex. Instead of taking wellbutrin and luvox, pristiq does what luvox does with more NET potency with a much lower dose than ur taking, and it also has some DRI properties of wellbutrin, but at a much lower level, which is better as i said anyway. its also only XR, so you take 1 antidepressant/antianxiety pill in the morning and all u gotta worry about is dex dosing.

pristiq and dex has been the best combo ive ever seen or tried. otherwise, try zoloft and dex.

Thats my opinion: forgot that combination, specifically LOSE the wellbutrin if ur gonna take amphetamines, i wouldnt do it myself because there are better combos out there and like i said you have a potential seizure/toxic event on your hads, and try what i said...

I would reschedule with your pdoc and change ur meds immediately. if you would like to read more on why i came to these conclusions, i highly recommend buying/renting but whatever way u get it, read Stephen Stahl's Essentials of Psychopharmacology. Once u get to the depression/antidepressant section, youll wanna stop taking that stuff too. really, see if u can fix up that regimine with your current doc ASAP,like dont wait a month, call him today. otherwise u should get another doctor, im very surprised that u were prescribed those things together. its risky.

hope this helps, good luck,peace
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Old 05-19-09, 07:34 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

ps I dont recommend pristiq's mother/father EFFEXOR XR. ive heard too many bad things about it, and youd need over 200-300mg of Effexor xr to reach 50mg (the starting dose) of pristiq's efficacy/potency...between zoloft and effexor xr id pick zoloft, actually aside from pristiq, Zoloft is the only other SSRI (anti depressant thats a monoamine RI, but of course aside from this class, there are NaaSa's like remeron/mirtazapine and mianserin which are the next ones i would try only. anyway heres my rank of AD's according to my interest in their mechanisms

1 pristiq (best all around based on my subjective interpretation)

2 remeron (hyptoethically similar to pristiq, but it is a sedative AD to take at night instead, however, as my biology is, i dont need a sedative, but this stuffs interesting)

3 mianserin (i find it similar to remeron but inferior only because it supposedly increases NE more than remeron, and remeron has a better, well rounded mechanism)

then back to the classical, nontoxic, SSRI's

4 zoloft
5 prozac
6 paxil
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Old 05-19-09, 09:03 AM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

yellow,

You have some very interesting feedback. First allow me to clear my situation. I have tried zoloft in the past when my mother passed away( broke out in hives). Now, fast forward 4 years later and I am doing much better but the anxiety that I suffer from is mainly situational , I am your classic adhd passive -aggressive poster child. That is , in my environment I am verbal and very talkative , but in other situations I am shy and quiet. Now, regarding the wellbutrin. The only reason that I have been on wellbutrin is that it doesn't really change my feelings but it allows me more so than not to focus on whats in front of me rather than daydreaming all day long and "ruminating about associative thoughts when I'm bored" , basically googling my life away at work about the nothings of the world , which is very boring and unproductive too , I might add. I am trying to ask you these questions because I took cymbalta and I felt better, but I could not really think or function properly after a few weeks. I became lazy and tired and out of it, not so good for classic adhd. I have some anxiety at times but really it is created out of boredom, yet still anxiety is anxiety I guess no matter what the trigger is. Wellbutrin lifts my depression, thats a cold fact , but at times at larger doses can trigger anxiety sometimes... Usually only physical symptoms though, which could be a by product of overtraining in the gym. Yet , regardless again of what the trigger is the fact is that it still is a problem and it holding me back from being my true self, other than that wellbutrin many times helps work as a baseline adjunct to help me focus all day. I am interested in the differences of pristiq and cymbalta and hope pristiq does not have the sedating effect. If cymbalta did not sedate me so much it would have been perfect for me , my depressive and insecure thoughts "related to adhd depression" and I could get right out of this fund at god speed. I would like to kill the anxiety and focus on whats important and just go about my business. If pristiq was perfect for me it would be like cymbalta without the sedation. Have you heard of cymbaltas sedative qualities, and if so does pristiq not have this ?
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Old 05-20-09, 04:42 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood View Post
yellow , is pristiq sedating? I have tried cymbalta but I was so sleepy temporarily, it's hard to stick with things when they make your adhd worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood View Post
yellow,

You have some very interesting feedback. First allow me to clear my situation. I have tried zoloft in the past when my mother passed away( broke out in hives). Now, fast forward 4 years later and I am doing much better but the anxiety that I suffer from is mainly situational , I am your classic adhd passive -aggressive poster child. That is , in my environment I am verbal and very talkative , but in other situations I am shy and quiet. Now, regarding the wellbutrin. The only reason that I have been on wellbutrin is that it doesn't really change my feelings but it allows me more so than not to focus on whats in front of me rather than daydreaming all day long and "ruminating about associative thoughts when I'm bored" , basically googling my life away at work about the nothings of the world , which is very boring and unproductive too , I might add. I am trying to ask you these questions because I took cymbalta and I felt better, but I could not really think or function properly after a few weeks. I became lazy and tired and out of it, not so good for classic adhd. I have some anxiety at times but really it is created out of boredom, yet still anxiety is anxiety I guess no matter what the trigger is. Wellbutrin lifts my depression, thats a cold fact , but at times at larger doses can trigger anxiety sometimes... Usually only physical symptoms though, which could be a by product of overtraining in the gym. Yet , regardless again of what the trigger is the fact is that it still is a problem and it holding me back from being my true self, other than that wellbutrin many times helps work as a baseline adjunct to help me focus all day. I am interested in the differences of pristiq and cymbalta and hope pristiq does not have the sedating effect. If cymbalta did not sedate me so much it would have been perfect for me , my depressive and insecure thoughts "related to adhd depression" and I could get right out of this fund at god speed. I would like to kill the anxiety and focus on whats important and just go about my business. If pristiq was perfect for me it would be like cymbalta without the sedation. Have you heard of cymbaltas sedative qualities, and if so does pristiq not have this ? .
The answer was answered above, so i suggest anyone includin holylwood reading the thread to READ MY WHOLE POST so you can understand not only the effects of each,but the progression and combo of meds, otherwise, takin one little piece out of it wont tell you much, everything with meds is in my context,as each med experience is subjective to an individual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
actually its not but initially it was, i was extremely drowsy for the first few days, yawning constantly for almost a week. about 3 days into it, i noticed slight mood improvement but i was tired. 5 days into it, the mood enhancement remained but i wasnt yawning as much. After a week, I had more normal energy and eventually more energy then i used to in general afterwards. Pristiq was actually great man, the only AD ive ever liked and stuck with. I hear its nothing at all like cymbalta although they have the same SE:NE reuptake ratio. give it a shot if you were hopeful about cymbalta but didnt like it. pristiq also has some dopamine reuptake inhibition, i dont know if cymbalta does (it probably might) but its not significant.

honestly, pristiq increases dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, in the way that strattera does also, but it didnt help much with ADHD, but it didnt make it worse either. so thats something to consider if u didnt like cymbalta.
Pristiq isnt sedating at all, i dont know bout cymbalta at all either, but understand i also took pristiq in context of klonopin, so perhaps pristiq might have been stimulating and i didnt notice much cuz of the kpin? u know what im sayin, pristiq wasnt sedating at all (minus 1st week).

CAN YOU TAKE DESOXYN + PRISTIQ (SNRI)!
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Old 05-21-09, 07:41 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

" am sensitive to stimulants. i cannot drink caffeine or energy drinks like guarana and whatever else those crazy drinks have."

If this is the case, I think you should stick with something else. I take Desoxyn simply because it is more potent. When I say potent I mean that the drug is MORE relaxing for me. W/ Adhd, any stimulants have a calming effect for me. The stronger the stimulant the more relaxed I am, so while I am calm on desoxyn, anyone who wasn't adhd would go wild. Unfortunately the chemical itself is pretty damaging, and I definitely will not be on it long term. I am about to go into my senior year of college and I need a little kick in the pants from my meds, otherwise I would much rather go withouth anything (I did Cognitive Behavioral Therapy CBT through an ADHD specialist last summer and it was about 1000x more enlightening than taking any pill, I suggest everyone try a few sessions of CBT if you have ADD or ADHD, your mind is more powerful than you think and you really are in control when it comes down it it.)
Also, I have tried ALOT of different combos. I get both Adderall and Desoxyn monthly although I do not take them simultaneously, and I want to try dexedrine next the only one I haven't tried. But they are far apart from eachother. Personally, when I take adderall I get the motivation to do all the things I normally wouldn't. This is not how desoxyn effects me. Desoxyn calms me and makes me less impulsive, but does not help me focus on things I do not find stimulating. Something else that is wierd I have yet to explain is the effect on handwriting. I am a left handed ADHD kid so you can only imagine the chicken scratch that I put on paper =). The psyc first knew I was ADHD when I wrote my name down, took a small ritalin and wrote it again 45 min later. The difference was insane!!!! This still happens on Adderall, but for some reason all my notes come out just as sloppy on desoxyn than when I am on nothing. The only reason I tried it is because I have a very high tolerance for stimulants. I was needing about 90mg daily of adderall to go to school and feel how I needed to ( I was only prescribed 60) and that much adderall gave me some negative side effects to say the least. Does desoxyn have less noticeable side effects? Yes in the short term, but I dunno about the long term, which is kinda scary. Also, while I'm in college I am under my parents insurance which is a blessing because my desoxyn prescription costs... wait for it......$741 dollars monthly. Do i suggest desoxyn for most people? No probably not, I mean if it were the most effective drug for most people it would be the most prescribed which it clearly is not. I was also kind of sketched out by the fact that I was taking methamphetamine and I asked my doctor what the thought about it all. He's really smart and good with ADHD and was able to explain it perfectly. He said that methamphetamine is an easier substance to make on the streets than just amphetamine when these meth producers use stuff from the store or whatever, which is why it gets the bad rep. He said that if amphetamine was easier to make it would be the illegal one and desoxyn would probably be used more commonly as a therapeutic treatment option. Food for though I guess, I thought that was interesting at least. Also, one thing that is extremely annoying about it is that it only comes in "short acting"(which is longer lasting than short acting adderall, but not as long as XR's) and only come in 5mg pills. They are extremely small so I get like 200 of these a month. I don't struggle with abusing my meds, but if there were ever one that would be easy to abuse it would be desoxyn, which is what frightens alot of dr's I'm sure. When it all comes down to it, it is all a personal issue. I have done so much reading in the past 2 years (since i found out i had adhd) that I know what I need better than my dr does, and he realizes that which is important I think to finding the perfect combo. As for the SNRI, I'm not quite sure. Ive heard that taking a SSRI after eating chemicals like MDMA can help people not damage their brains AS MUCH. I will ask my dr. though as I have an appointment coming up. While I am on any kind of amphetamines I take a 5-htp and an L-tyrosine everymornig, which is supposed to descrease the toxicity as well. I am interested in looking into trying new combos though as well, I think for the most part it is my seratonin that needs the most tweaking. You seemed pretty knowledgeable about some things that I want to know more about, I will pm you later. I hope this helps.

Michael
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Old 05-21-09, 08:03 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

I didnt notice this in my first read.

"i dont want the euphoria or whatever else to make me an addict. i hear many get addicted to dex, and i barely take my klonopin as is for fear of addiction/dependence so to end this whole dibackle:"

I don't think you need to worry about that. I was questionable too and I looked up some facts. Desoxyn comes in 5mg tabs and I personally get 200 a month. That is a total of 1000mg which is 1 gram. I read and found out that some experienced street meth users are known to take up to 1 gram intravenously at once. (Which is insane) It said though that most people take in about 200mg when doing illegal meth recreationally. That is 40 desoxyn, I don't know about you, but I would never eat 40 of anything. You will probably feel a little euphoria the first few doses, but no more than you would get off taking adderall. Of all the meds I have taken it is definitely the one that makes me most dependent. Of course I'm dependent on adderall too when I come off of it, which just makes me aggravated and irritable for a few days. But Ive never taken adderall in the morning and thought "Gee maybe I should take some more" in a few hours. However, I do often feel this subliminally with desoxyn and then I realize it and wonder why I was even thinking that. Anyone considering desoxyn should definitely consider themselves responsible. It has been enlightening in the sense that I at least know to a basic point what meth is/does. I never ever done street meth much less even seen it, but I know for sure that I will never find myself struggling with that substance after taking a pure form in a therapeutic dose. Also keep in mind that there is a strong social stigma attached to methamphetamine. Even though I am prescribed and actually need these substances to function optimally, alot of people would probably not look at you the same way if you came out and said "I'm on meth" which is blunt, but you get the picture. You sound responsible judging from your post and you just want a "cure" like the rest of us. I dunno if everyone else kind of feels this same way about desoxyn, but theres another 2 cents from me. Now im rambling, damn desoxyn.

Michael

Last edited by mbm1512; 05-21-09 at 08:07 PM.. Reason: misspells
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Old 05-21-09, 08:22 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

Thanks for the input. The current dex that I have definitely kills my hyperactivity and impulsivity while giving me concentration and focus. I wouldn't say it's mentally relaxing, but I definitely am physically calmer on it, if that makes sense.

My sensitivity to stimulants seems to be from nearly everything that hits anything but dopamine directly (xanthine like the coffee,guarana which acts on CNS but through adenosine, totally different than amphetamines...levoamphetamine which is mostly on PNS and norepinephrine/adrenaline...bupropion which is a very strange amphetamine and cathinone-like chemical, is a NDRI, and since its mostly NE and not DA, were again talkin PNS and not CNS, etc...u see where im going).

My current generic 5mg barr dexedrine is total CNS so far, unlike the 10mg, which acts very differently with each dose. I think barr mighta dropped some levo in there by mistake and no one's noticed, except maybe in the dex forum.

It might also have to do with the SNRI, which as you mentioned is neuroprotective with the amphetamine MDMA. There are many posts about dex+snri combo being very synergistic in that NE/PNS stimulation is negligible while SE (serotonin) toxicity is prevented. So it's something to check.

However, your experience with it sounds like it is not for me because of the cost and the very calm response. Dex is hardly noticeable to me now, so I couldn't imagine desoxyn. Plus, my doctor might not even want to prescribe it, and if the cost is like that, i don't know if the insurance will pay. Your point about long term usage is also good.

Many things to consider. I think, as I began, I'm probably just gonna stick with the dex. Though my curiosity is still wondering about the combo. You know what though, based on the MDMA and SSRI neuroprotection, I'd guess the same would apply to Desoxyn, so it would make Desoxyn almost like a slightly less stimulating Dex....so I don't know, doesn't sound too practical to take desoxyn with an SNRI.
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Old 05-22-09, 07:30 PM
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Re: snri (pristiq) with desoxyn . kinda long but please look if u can help at all,tha

actually, it might cause serotonin toxicity. desoxyn releases sert at like 1/5 the dopamine, so thats kinda substantial, with an ssri/snri, that might bad or just totally ineffective.
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