ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > TREATMENT & MANAGEMENT > Medications > Adderall
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Adderall (four amphetamine salts)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-06-19, 02:03 AM
Serendipitrees Serendipitrees is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Serendipitrees is on a distinguished road
Unhappy

TL;DR: previous ADHD stim use VERY effective; now, years later (w/ no stim tolerance), prescribed ADHD meds have shown ZERO benefits, effects, or similarities to prior experiences. Psychiatrist perplexed - apparent body of Pharmacological Nature Defiance.

Interesting experience this ADHD train has been.

Having always been hyperactive, a fast talker, a procrastinator, daydreamer, "read-the-same-paragraph-5-times-and-still-not-feel-like-it-stuck-fully"-er; it was always apparent that I had ADHD. I learned to like my perceived uniqueness from the common others. However, the required rigor required at a university level has exacerbated my disliked symptoms.

I delayed getting an ADHD diagnosis for the last 10 years, in fear of a dependence to pharms. However, after much struggles at my university, I thought it only practical to leave it to the professionals... Putting literally ALL my eggs in this basket, I thought the ADHD diagnosis would be the answer to all of my problems. How very wrong could I have been....

- 24 y/o; ADHD diagnosis: 2 mo/ago.

- Pharms tried (chronologically ordered):
- Generic Adderall (Aurobindo, and Teva) 10mg IR.
- Vyvanse (Shire) 20 --> 40 --> 60mg.
- Generic Ritalin (Kvk-Tech) 10mg IR.

- Effects:

- Generic Adderall - literally nothing; both brands felt like sugar pills, even when popping 20/30mg at once, and after alkalizing the gut with Tums.
- Previous Use: high school; used PLENTY of times, was always even hypersensitive to addy's. 10mg IR was very effective! I would take 5mg at a time and be on high alert, energized, and slight palm sweatiness...

- Vyvanse - 60mg has proven to be the 'most' effective out of all attempted pharms thus far, however only lasting around 4 hours instead of the presumed 12. Even then, its NOTHING that is super noticeable. Extremely subtle background minor clarity, that can almost be written off as placebo, honestly... I can still eat, I have no real increase in BP, there is no real apparent increase in energy..
- Previous Use: only once before, about 4 months ago; one 60mg pill was enough to send me palms sweating, hyper-focused, appetite non-existent, studying for HOURS... a mere 4 month difference from this experience to actually obtaining the prescription--yet, experiencing NOTHING that resembles this first experience..

- Generic Ritalin - 10mg IR (in attempt to try the "other" kind of ADHD meds to see if a different response emerges). 10mg, 20mg, 20mg oral + 10mg insufflated; no reaction. No apparent stimulation, can still eat, no signs of extra focus..
- Previous use: never tried.

My psychiatrist doesn't know what the hell is going on in my body. We are both perplexed how I could have achieved such positive experiences in the past through experimentation (off such LOW doses), and receive almost NO effects today (off extremely HIGH doses). Especially considering ZERO tolerance to stims prior to starting this ADHD regimen. Opiate problem the past few years would be the only remarkable difference since high school, however that has been recently resolved.

My body seems to defy the laws of pharmacological science, and there seems to be no reasonable explanation as to why.

A post on Reddit about "reverse tolerance" developing with low doses of stimulants scares me.

Question: Has anyone else ever had any experiences like this? I'm wondering if I'm an anomaly... and why the hell, with no tolerance, I am getting zero effects from these stimulants.. and if there is any hope left for me to resolve the crisis I am experiencing in school and life due to my lack of attentiveness/clarity/ability to read fluently... I'm just so frustrated in life, and these meds not working is NOT helping..

Thanks for anything guys/gals...

Last edited by namazu; 05-06-19 at 02:22 AM.. Reason: mreged duplicate posts; removed Reddit link per site guidelines
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-06-19, 09:25 AM
Alphawave Alphawave is online now
Member
 

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: London
Posts: 72
Thanks: 46
Thanked 46 Times in 30 Posts
Alphawave is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Strattera works for me, but it took around 2 months of a daily dose to start working.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-06-19, 10:06 AM
lateadultadhd lateadultadhd is offline
Jr Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 22
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
lateadultadhd is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

It doesn't sound like you have reverse tolerance. Did you tell your psych about the previous abundant use of adderall during high school? And also the opiate issue?

Stimulants not being effective makes sense in this instance because simply put, opiates faciliate a rush of dopamine to the brain. Depending on how severe the opiate issue was (dosage, length, etc) your brain would have responded by creating more DAT (dopamine transporters) to remove dopamine from your system which is why you'd need a larger dose of opaites to get the high. Because you've had experience in high school, and opiates, you might just have high levels of DAT which could take a long time to recover and realize it doesn't need as many.

That'd be my guess anyway but it's hard to say without knowing the extent of opiate usage. Would love to hear others opinions if they know more. I have an honours in physiology but have since moved into sleep area so my neuro is a bit rusty.

I'd like to point out that you shouldn't worry, you're only 24 and your brain is still developing/flexible. If you don't already, eat well, exercise and that'll help out a lot in the long run.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #4  
Old 05-06-19, 02:33 PM
Serendipitrees Serendipitrees is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Serendipitrees is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Did stimulants not work for you prior to Strattera, or did they just give you undesired side effects? (assuming that you tried them first, as it seems to be first line of attack for psychiatrists to treat ADHD)

Also - I honestly can't imagine ADHD symptoms being treated by a non-stimulant.. when you say it started working, do you mean you can literally and NOTICEABLY (aka not be just marked off as placebo) read text's without losing attentiveness? Can you maintain rigorous concentration for hours on end? Is it positively affecting your task management and deadline schedules/organization abilities?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-06-19, 02:48 PM
Lunacie's Avatar
Lunacie Lunacie is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south-central Kansas
Posts: 19,735
Thanks: 21,364
Thanked 26,626 Times in 12,432 Posts
Lunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

First thought ... maybe you're drinking coffee now and weren't drinking it back
in high school? Some people find they can't do both kinds of stimulant together.
__________________
ADD is not a problem of knowing what to do; it is a problem of doing what you know.
-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.


As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-06-19, 02:48 PM
Serendipitrees Serendipitrees is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Serendipitrees is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lateadultadhd View Post
It doesn't sound like you have reverse tolerance. Did you tell your psych about the previous abundant use of adderall during high school? And also the opiate issue?

Stimulants not being effective makes sense in this instance because simply put, opiates faciliate a rush of dopamine to the brain. Depending on how severe the opiate issue was (dosage, length, etc) your brain would have responded by creating more DAT (dopamine transporters) to remove dopamine from your system which is why you'd need a larger dose of opaites to get the high. Because you've had experience in high school, and opiates, you might just have high levels of DAT which could take a long time to recover and realize it doesn't need as many.

That'd be my guess anyway but it's hard to say without knowing the extent of opiate usage. Would love to hear others opinions if they know more. I have an honours in physiology but have since moved into sleep area so my neuro is a bit rusty.

I'd like to point out that you shouldn't worry, you're only 24 and your brain is still developing/flexible. If you don't already, eat well, exercise and that'll help out a lot in the long run.
@lateadultadhd I appreciate your response and insight! Now, I didn't use adderall in 'abundance' per se though, but I included the fact that I used it 'plenty' of times to acknowledge that my past use of it has been remarkably different than the doses I'm taking today... Roughly ~6 years ago for the majority of the use, and approximately 30-40 days in total throughout my entire life.. no more than 20mg per day.. however, being seemingly very sensitive to adderall in the past, when I would use it I would generally only take 5mg at a time because it was ENOUGH! Which is why I'm baffled by these large doses feeling like utter sugar pills with ZERO effect.

As far as the opiate use - it was heroin from age 21-24.. but irregular use from 21-23 (1-5 times a month.. w/ some 6 month gaps of non-use), but this last year of 23-24 has been more on the daily side, with only a few 3 week gaps + occasional single weeks of sobriety. I quit for good though 1 week ago, done with it and honestly school is more important as well as figuring out exactly what is going on in my body to prevent these meds from working, as to perform my best in school... cause I am very much so screwing up academically speaking, due to my inability to concentrate and maintain focus..

And you're totally right about my age... I just am concerned as I feel like I should be getting SOME effects... spent literally $600 on psychiatrist fees, and testing out these different meds in the last 2 months with almost no benefit except for the vyvanse which I will continue for the very minor support it gives... And I don't know if asking for something stronger like desoxyn would be appropriate.. but my psych DOES know about my problems here. He however does not know about the opiate use...
... The thing is, even admits the opiate use, at the beginning of this academic year in the fall, I had used adderall a few times (last time using stims before getting the recent diagnosis) and it worked perfectly fine even WITH the opiates in my system!

I am eating healthy and working out again starting 3 days ago.. I'm gonna obtain optimal physical health to eliminate that as a potential factor as well.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-06-19, 02:50 PM
Serendipitrees Serendipitrees is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Serendipitrees is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
First thought ... maybe you're drinking coffee now and weren't drinking it back
in high school? Some people find they can't do both kinds of stimulant together.
I've been a coffee drinker my entire life.. at least since 13 years old! :/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Serendipitrees For This Useful Post:
Lunacie (05-07-19)
  #8  
Old 05-06-19, 05:47 PM
Alphawave Alphawave is online now
Member
 

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: London
Posts: 72
Thanks: 46
Thanked 46 Times in 30 Posts
Alphawave is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipitrees View Post
Did stimulants not work for you prior to Strattera, or did they just give you undesired side effects? (assuming that you tried them first, as it seems to be first line of attack for psychiatrists to treat ADHD)

Also - I honestly can't imagine ADHD symptoms being treated by a non-stimulant.. when you say it started working, do you mean you can literally and NOTICEABLY (aka not be just marked off as placebo) read text's without losing attentiveness? Can you maintain rigorous concentration for hours on end? Is it positively affecting your task management and deadline schedules/organization abilities?

Thanks!
People often reject Strattera for the stims believing that it won't work. I have tried stimulants and no, you don't get the jaw clenching euphoria that stims can provide.

I noticed a reduction in anxiety and improved focus on the first dose of Strattera. I knew it was going to work. Like I said, it took 2 months to fully kick in and it was sudden and noticeable. Placebos don't work with me.

That's my take on it. For me it sorts out my problems and yet I'm able to get to sleep on it. I take it at night.

Sarahsweets was right when she said it behaves like antidepressants. Some people comment on it and say they feel great in the mornings or afternoons but they're treating it like a stimulant. You have to be patient with it and it will kick in. I like it most because there is no up and down like on stimulants. For me it's a one a day dosing for 24 hours of coverage.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Alphawave For This Useful Post:
Serendipitrees (05-07-19)
  #9  
Old 05-06-19, 08:01 PM
Greyhound1's Avatar
Greyhound1 Greyhound1 is offline
Mind Racing Moderator
 

Join Date: May 2013
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 9,453
Thanks: 12,589
Thanked 15,980 Times in 7,684 Posts
Greyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond reputeGreyhound1 has a reputation beyond repute
Post Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipitrees View Post
I've been a coffee drinker my entire life.. at least since 13 years old! :/
I’ve been on Teva and Aurobindo and they were the absolute worst for me. Teva was like a sugar pill. I had to chase it with a Mtn. Dew for it to kinda work. Auro was absolute garbage. I took my fist dose and felt terrible with the worst headache all day. Threw the rest away it was so bad.

I know for me and others here there is a huge difference between generics with Adderall, regardless of what some Dr’s and pharmacist’s may say. I would consider trying Sandoz, Mylan, or Malinkrodt if you have access. I’m currently on Malinkrodt and it works far better for me than Teva and Auro felt like mud running through my veins.

I’ve been searching for Sandoz and Mylan for over a year here to no avail. They can’t even order it for me.

Last edited by Greyhound1; 05-06-19 at 11:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Greyhound1 For This Useful Post:
Little Missy (05-06-19)
  #10  
Old 05-06-19, 08:04 PM
Little Missy's Avatar
Little Missy Little Missy is online now
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BIG, Wonderful, Wyoming USA
Posts: 16,247
Thanks: 24,013
Thanked 21,948 Times in 11,794 Posts
Little Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond reputeLittle Missy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Still getting Sandoz here.
__________________
The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you are uncool ~ Lester Bangs

And in the end, the love you take; is equal to the love you make...Beatles Abbey Road 1969
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Little Missy For This Useful Post:
Greyhound1 (05-06-19), Serendipitrees (05-07-19)
  #11  
Old 05-06-19, 09:42 PM
lateadultadhd lateadultadhd is offline
Jr Member
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 22
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
lateadultadhd is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipitrees View Post
He however does not know about the opiate use...
... The thing is, even admits the opiate use, at the beginning of this academic year in the fall, I had used adderall a few times (last time using stims before getting the recent diagnosis) and it worked perfectly fine even WITH the opiates in my system!

I am eating healthy and working out again starting 3 days ago.. I'm gonna obtain optimal physical health to eliminate that as a potential factor as well.

If the psych knew about your previous opiate history, he probably wouldn't have prescribed stimulants due to the nature of addiction/reliance it can trigger. Your body hasn't normalized from the previous use, the detox doesn't happen that quickly. Using stim and opiates worked fine because you have production of the neurotransmitters from both stim and opiate mechanisms. But yeah, I think you should come clean to the psych who can give you better insight cause he doesn't know all the variables here since the opiates have been omitted! Best of luck
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-07-19, 02:22 AM
Serendipitrees Serendipitrees is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Serendipitrees is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyhound1 View Post
Iíve been on Teva and Aurobindo and they were the absolute worst for me. Teva was like a sugar pill. I had to chase it with a Mtn. Dew for it to kinda work. Auro was absolute garbage. I took my fist dose and felt terrible with the worst headache all day. Threw the rest away it was so bad.

I know for me and others here there is a huge difference between generics with Adderall, regardless of what some Drís and pharmacistís may say. I would consider trying Sandoz, Mylan, or Malinkrodt if you have access. Iím currently on Malinkrodt and it works far better for me than Teva and Auro felt like mud running through my veins.

Iíve been searching for Sandoz and Mylan for over a year here to no avail. They canít even order it for me.
Yeah Teva felt like sugar pills for me as well. Really strange and entirely annoying how there is such supposed rigor in FDA regulations.. yet, there are pills being sold in America that are significantly sub par... However, thanks for the insight. Truly disappointing, but I have hope still.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Serendipitrees For This Useful Post:
Greyhound1 (05-07-19)
  #13  
Old 05-07-19, 02:30 AM
Serendipitrees Serendipitrees is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Serendipitrees is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lateadultadhd View Post
If the psych knew about your previous opiate history, he probably wouldn't have prescribed stimulants due to the nature of addiction/reliance it can trigger. Your body hasn't normalized from the previous use, the detox doesn't happen that quickly. Using stim and opiates worked fine because you have production of the neurotransmitters from both stim and opiate mechanisms. But yeah, I think you should come clean to the psych who can give you better insight cause he doesn't know all the variables here since the opiates have been omitted! Best of luck
Yeah no you're absolutely right. It's just one of those things that I'm trying to avoid because she is through my parents insurance and I don't want to cause any issues.. trying to keep that habit buried and hidden, it's only gonna get better from here on out as I'm no longer touching them, so hopefully in due time my body will equalize. As far as the stimulant potential for addiction.. I've never liked uppers like that. The only reason why I started them in the first place is because I knew they wouldn't be a recreational problem for me. I can't stand the side effects of stims every day. So i know it sounds extremely arrogant most likely.. but I do have a pretty good sense about myself in relation to what drugs I could have problems with, stims just never were my cup of tea like that though. I appreciate your concern though, truly, and will take that and broaden my perspective a little bit more with it. I'm taking many proactive steps in my life in terms of diet, fitness, opiate-freeness, and I'm really just trying to sort out this last bit of inefficiency in my life.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-07-19, 03:38 PM
italianstallion italianstallion is online now
Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New York
Posts: 78
Thanks: 41
Thanked 38 Times in 25 Posts
italianstallion is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Can you send the link for the "reverse tolerance" article as I'm interested in learning more?

I've also had the experience where low dose stims that I was prescribed worked wonders, (I was prescribed 60mg vyvanse, 10mg adderall ir, 20mg xr at different times) but every time I seemed to take a break e.g. 1 or 2 months between semesters, I would come back and the positive effects would seem to lessen each time I returned. I always took them as prescribed and never abused or took extra doses, but it seemed almost like if I had not stopped taking them for an extended period of time, I never would have lost the positive effects.

Now, as you say the vyvanse may give me maybe 2-4 good hours, but the rest of the day nothing or just negative effects as anxiety which never used to happen. Similarly, the adderall may work for a few hours, but it doesn't seem to be as effective.

Is this similar to what you experienced?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-07-19, 04:47 PM
Serendipitrees Serendipitrees is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Serendipitrees is on a distinguished road
Re: Dumbfounded; how can this be possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by italianstallion View Post
Can you send the link for the "reverse tolerance" article as I'm interested in learning more?

I've also had the experience where low dose stims that I was prescribed worked wonders, (I was prescribed 60mg vyvanse, 10mg adderall ir, 20mg xr at different times) but every time I seemed to take a break e.g. 1 or 2 months between semesters, I would come back and the positive effects would seem to lessen each time I returned. I always took them as prescribed and never abused or took extra doses, but it seemed almost like if I had not stopped taking them for an extended period of time, I never would have lost the positive effects.

Now, as you say the vyvanse may give me maybe 2-4 good hours, but the rest of the day nothing or just negative effects as anxiety which never used to happen. Similarly, the adderall may work for a few hours, but it doesn't seem to be as effective.

Is this similar to what you experienced?
Well - for me, the vyvanse definitely has a MUCH shorter experience than the 12-14 hours its supposed to have.. I'd say 4-5 hours roughly. In terms of the adderall and ritalin, they literally felt like sugar pills; no effect whatsoever. It's strange I know, and I don't know what to do about it. Especially when I have experienced effects in the past from these drugs! Apparently, generics are notorious for being variably effective.. but this is next level I feel like. :/

As for the link... I posted it in this original post.. but the moderator took it down:/ as I am a newbie, I don't want to **** them off... am I not allowed to link to other forums? haha... seems kinda silly.. but type in google "Be very careful with low doses of stimulants reddit" and it should pop up as the first article.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Serendipitrees For This Useful Post:
italianstallion (05-14-19)
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums