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Old 11-17-13, 06:44 PM
Modafinilguy Modafinilguy is offline
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I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty happy!

*** God I am sorry people. I really have pretty damn convincing evidence I think, to say there is a good scientific, physical basis to believe I have ADHD. Scientific fact and analyze says I have ADHD, physically in my brain box! It goes along nicely with my very obvious symptoms. I wanted to keep this short. But I didn't know how to explain it properly, and it got too long. Sorry about length ***


I have always read a lot of information on medications, to understand their mechanisms.

In my lifetime I have only had two periods where I was aware of and accepting that I had ADHD, and had real "faith" in the disorder.

Most my life, I knew nothing of ADHD, though I did know about many other mental disorders.

I knew I had serious problems, I dramatically struggled in life, and the effects of my struggled causes symptoms people would compare with unhappiness, depression and anxiety. Anxiety- possibly being seperate disorder but depression I do not believe I have ever had it in the "mental illness" sort of way, only profound unhappiness about my problems with not being competent, and my lack of social needs being met, isolation and loneliness in the past too!

Over the last year or so, I have renewed my faith in ADHD. Due to a well not very good psychiatrist and getting severe panic attacks after 1.5 years on Ritalin (which was otherwise literally a miracle drug), well I lost faith in ADHD. My psychiatrist basically gave me the impression that if I had panic attacks there was nothing more he could do for me, my ADHD treatment and hope was over. I did not know what I do now, that he was wrong, and ill informed, that absolutely panic attacks are quite common secondary problem in adults with ADHD, and there are treatment options for people in such a situation!

And in recent weeks, I have been reading and reading, and for the last 10 or so hours I have been reading, cross referencing facts, verifying and something became amazingly clear that I only had partial ideas about before.

I have been on at LEAST 30 psychiatric medicines in my 38 years of life.Always trying to find an answer, willing to experiment. We will just say 30 to keep it simple.

I have been on I believe all or almost all classes of antidepressants and for most of them a variety of drugs from each class, stupid misguided and uneducated doctors and psychiatrists NOT understanding I have ADHD, not identifying or believe in it, not LETTING ME KNOW what I needed to know: I need treatment for ADHD.

I have been on various mood stabilizers, anti-anxiety drugs, neuroleptics (a variety of the old and 4-5 of the new atypicals). Been on various drugs from non-descript classes, a whole heap of crap.

The vast majority was utterly, completely useless (or very big side effects forced me right off them).

Antidepressants. CRAP, stupid drugs for me. I hate that doctors kept convincing me to try them, Recent a psychiatry professor (who obviously does not believe in or treat ADHD), he put me on another bloody antidepressant, I was damn complaining about ADHD symptoms (this was before my renewed faith), and its bloody obvious if you believe ADHD exists that i should be accessed for it. Nope this expert did not give me the nudge i needed in the right direction at all.

Well I try and get more to the point. There have been 3 main medications in my entire life of at least 30 medications, that have been of good benefits, the others were of ZERO benefit.

The 3 medicines that helped, helped in different ways. I will try to be more concise, and shorten this (or nobody will read).

I will quickly say it is undeniable the benefit these medicines had, and they all had direct and obvious effects on my life by changing how I was going persistently for a significant amount of time. On these medicines my life quality and functioning has risen up.

Now to the point.

I have clear cut proof that the 3 medicines that benefited me, the only ones of 30 that have, ALL have specific, specialized effects on the function of the prefrontal cortex, they improve its functioning by the nature of their effects!

I am not going to list all the proof here, but if somebody wants absolute or solid evidence I am willing to consider going into to it, to show yes I can pretty much demonstrate that I have good scientific weight to show I have ADHD- physical proof!!

The 27 OTHER medicines- I have carefully rechecked various times- they have NO specialized or specific effect on the prefrontal cortex whatsoever (of course you all know this area in the front brain, is well known to be the primary main area where ADHD problems occur in the brain, the hotspot of ADHD).

The other medicines do NOT have any effect on prefrontal cortex, they are useless for ADHD, they were useless for me!

The fact that 3, relatively different medications have effects on this specific area, and the other 27 or so DO NOT, and that these 3 medicines were the only one's that were of benefit- that's pretty strong evidence of ADHD I believe!

I don't believe there is any other psychiatric disorder associated with the functioning of the prefrontal cortex!

I will provide some more details to back this up (if you want an an absolute detail account, I might do it!)

There are two main mechanisms by which ADHD drugs (and some offlabel drugs known to help it), benefit ADHD.

(1) General dopamine elevation in the brain or some form or reinforcement of the dopamine system. Its primarily the effects of dopamine in prefrontal cortex which are of benefit, but effects in non-adhd areas can cause SIDE EFFECTS like PANIC ATTACKS (my problem with Ritalin)

(2) Effects on a few receptors which have specific known (well proven) functional effects specific to the prefrontal cortex.

In regards to dopamine- one of the drugs are primary dopamine enhancing drug, and you all know it- Ritalin. This drug was beneficial for 1.5 years. So this one does not need to be explained.

You go hang on. If you are taking drugs you think effect the prefrontal cortex and then claim they helped, it could be a placebo effect!

Wrong. The two others drugs, which at first glance do not appear to be drugs that would benefit ADHD, I was not aware of their specific effects on prefrontal cortex for a long time (years). I knew they were beneficial, and in various cases was just trying to improve my general unhappiness (a side effect of my ADHD). I knew they helped me, I did not understand why.

The two other drugs.

(1) Mianserin- an antidepressant.

Well how can it help? How did it help my ADHD?

Mianserin effects a fair few receptors, they have been mapped.

Some of these are just side effect or irrelevant receptor effects, not believed to be or relevance to mental disorders.

In regards to helping with "depression", it is believed to do this for this reason:

* It increase serotonin and noradrenalin to a lesser extent, it also effects various specific serotonin receptor subtypes (depression benefit).

*** A special note needs to be put here. This drug is the ONLY medication I have been on (besides ANOTHER of the 3 helpful medicines I had). None of the 27 or so useless medicines I was on of all types have the following effect: Its selectively and potently hits the 5HT7 receptor. This receptor has importance in relation to ADHD. But I am going to explain it when I explain the next drug ***

Now before we proceed it should be known I have been on many other antidepressant drugs that were of absolutely no use, that did ALL the above receptor effects. So it has become very clear, that serotonin and noradrenalin antidepressants do ABSOLUTE ZERO to help me.

I can reliably say the above are NOT what helped me.

But it also has a STRONG effect on the alpha2a adrenergic receptor- this is the only medication I have been on that effects this receptor. This is the receptor of importance. It binds VERY strongly to this important receptor.

Why is this important? Because these receptors are localized to the prefrontal cortex neurons where they are known to effect Executive Functioning ie ADHD.

All the other effects of this drug that can possibly be believed to have benefit for mental health effect "antidepressant" receptors that I have had effects many times by other antidepressants with no help whatsoever.

Serotonin and noradrenalin re-uptake inhibitors and simular antidepressants (known not to be ADHD treatment drugs), are utterly useless to me. That is one thing that is utterly clear to me.

This drug was VERY beneficial to me for 2.5 whole years. I went from unfit and overweight to jogging 5km, cycling daily, gym etc. Much cleaner in house, more organized- to a degree. Not however in the same league of benefit as Ritalin.

At 2.5 years I stopped it because I felt it was losing effect (this is known to be a potential problem long term with ALL psychiatric drugs pretty much, your brain can adapt and counter effects). However this may not be what happened because my teenager cousin move in (very stressful), and this may have been while I didn't feel so great. I have not been back on it.

The third drug: Solian (Amisulpride)

This one is going to be a surprise.

This is a neuroleptic- an antipsychotic drug.

What you say! How can that possibly help you if you claim it was treating ADHD problems? Explain that, you fat big hairy dude!

Well I have been on several of the older antipsychotic, they did not help me at all in any way, well except if you want to sleep. That is one thing they are good for, sleeping.

The above drug is a newer type of antipsychotic, an "atypical antipsychotic". I have also been on about 5 of these!

Besides this one, none of the other atypicals were any use whatsoever! Useless, and side effects!

Amisulpride is different.

For one, I am on 200mg. Amisulpride is special because at doses of 50-200mg it does not reduce dopamine in the brain antipsychotics are supposed to do! At low doses like this, it is NOT an antipsychotic drug!

At does from 50-200mg it increase dopamine in the brain. So there is a big clue. It is also known to be fairly specific to certain general areas of the brain, yes they are the areas where the ADHD hotspots are!

It has one other important effect. Like Mianserin, this is the ONLY other drug I have been on that is specific to the 5HT7 receptor.

What is special about its effect on this receptor is that is causes a very complex chemical reaction, but it has one end result:

It causes a significant stimulation of a signalling molecule that is called "cAMP".

Why cAMP is important is because of a complex reason:

This is very recent scientific knowledge. It is believed to be true, but you could say it is investigatory or "developing" scientific knowledge.

cAMP does this "cAMP affects the function of higher-order thinking in the prefrontal cortex through its regulation of ion channels called
hyerpoloarization-activated cyclic nucleotide-gated channels. These channels are believed to be important to ADHD, and this is an investigational ADHD knowledge area!

Now again: NONE of the approximately 27 totally useless psychiatric drugs from pretty much every class were ANY use to me, and I have checked and NONE of them have the effects I have listed for the 3 drugs I have found to be effective or beneficial to my life!

The 3 beneficial drugs are KNOWN to specifically have action on the function of the prefrontal cortex to a significant degree. None of them (except Ritalin) are cures for ADHD, but all 3 of these drugs had benefit. The 27 other drugs I have tried have no known specific effect at all on the prefrontal cortex.

I don't know but I think that is pretty compelling to have pretty solid scientific literature to support a claim that the only 3 of a huge amount of psyche meds I have been on that help, that only they are known to have significant selective effects directly on the function of the prefrontal cortex, and all these effects are known or being scientifically explored in relation to ADHD in this area! As you know the prefrontal cortex is the ADHD hotspot of the brain.

Also remember, by subjective tests I ALWAYS score very highly on ADHD scales, usually pretty close to as high as possible.

I am pretty happy, because for me, this really is enough that not only do I fully meet the subjective criteria from questions and written tests to say I have ADHD, but I have pretty good evidence that only medicines that effect the prefrontal cortex specifically have ever helped me!

Sorry for the long post, but has anyone else had such an experience? Most people with ADHD well they may find ADHD drugs help of course. But to find that the only drugs that have ever been of use: They are not known as ADHD treatments, and at first glance do not appear to be, but yes they are known (or reasonably believed according to current scientific knowledge) to have significant effects on the prefrontal cortex via mechanisms that are either well established as being relating to ADHD or as in one case above are in the investigational/research science category.

Because I have been on so many drugs with no help at all, I can discount many of the common receptor and drug effects as being obviously useless to me. I can RULE them out. When the ones that have failed countless times are ruled out, and ones which are not considered useful or relevant to psychiatric disorders, well the ones left in my 3 effective drugs: They help ADHD- and I can back it up with nice citations. They don't fully cure my ADHD (except Ritalin) but they have helped me enough to change and benefit my life for long amounts of time!

Sorry for how long this way.
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  #2  
Old 11-17-13, 07:32 PM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

Summed up my perception on your post:

Only meds that have an effect on the prefrontal cortex are the ones that will have any effect on ADHD. You found 3 of them in your quest.


I kept holding out for physical proof to be a brain scan of some sort.
All the proof that I needed was you saying that you would get to the point over and over and then just finally barely got there!

I'm glad you are accepting your ADHD. Keep up the good work in your path forward.
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Old 11-17-13, 10:41 PM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

Man you are SO adhd. I've never said that before.

If a doc can't see it he's deaf, dumb and blind.
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Old 11-17-13, 11:31 PM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

Thank you for your truly educational post, Modafinilguy.

There is not one shred of physical or scientific ADHD evidence in what you've said - what you've done is pure guess-work - but I don't care because what you said is still worthwhile.
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Old 11-18-13, 05:51 AM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

not sure if its scientific but still a really good thread.
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Old 11-19-13, 11:17 PM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

Can somebody say hyperfocus three times fast? :P The initial post was kind of tiring, but not the OP's fault.

I've been on a variety of psych meds for depression. Zoloft, amitryptiline. The zoloft brought out OCD symptoms in me, which are not apparent normally.

Scientific evidence of ADHD? Well it's still somebody's opinion, although I virtually tick every box there is to a greater or lesser degree. I'm a mixed type.

What brought me to the conclusion I should get this checked out is 39 years of lack of success in my life, and friends with ADHD children making comparisons and joking about it with me. I'm the one who "would forget their head if it wasn't screwed on" blah blah.

The meds that have helped me the most are street amphetamine, but that's next to impossible to regulate a dosage, bupropion, dexamphetamine. Korean ginseng has a mild beneficial effect too.

Yes the OP seemed to be a lot about ruminating, which can occur with ADHD, and hyperfocus. We don't need to be convinced of a person's ADHD (I hope I can talk collectively.) I hope you find the answers you need.
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Old 12-10-13, 12:36 PM
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Lightbulb Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

Ever try phenylalanine (precursor to phenylethylamine), Anatares?

Just curious. The meds you list sound like you might be low in phenylethylamine (deficiency of this neurochemical linked to ADHD).

My scientific evidence of ADHD came in the form of COMT enzyme genetics test. However, it shows that I have trouble breaking down dopamine, norepinephrine, and phenylethylamine (also a cause of ADHD), yet spent years growing up on a drug that boosted those neurochemicals even more, Ritalin. Now suffer damage because of it. The test to check for COMT is $50. I have now become an advocate of checking for that mutation before prescribing stimulants to children to make sure that a deficiency is truly at fault, not an excess. A child may have trouble describing discomfort on the wrong med, whereas an adult will say, "this is not working for me, on to the next med." That's why I believe this test is very important for children especially. I look forward to the day when genetics testing can tell us which meds may be the most helpful without all the experimenting. I have already seen it happen with one friend with a GABA, glutamate imbalance. She found the right meds thanks to her genetics test. Also knows now that she can't take vitamin D or accept methyl donors. Pretty amazing stuff.

Congratulations to Modafinilguy on his deductions! Research based trial and error evidence even if not physical.
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Old 12-17-13, 11:15 AM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

Glad you're coming to terms that you are indeed ADHD. I hope now you can find the help that you so desperately deserve!

I've always been against meds. Docs have been trying to medicate me since I was a teen...and it was always anti-psychotics, anti-depressants or anti-anxiety pills. Just like you, none of them worked on me (or else would give me horrible side effects...or turn me into a lifeless zombie).
The only medication I ever tried that I actually like was adderall. It wasn't my prescription though (it was my sister's) and at the time I didn't know anything about ADHD. I didn't even consider the possibility that I might have ADHD even though the adderall completely seem to 'fix' me. Within 15 minutes of taking it my mind would just be quiet and it always blew me away how peaceful things were. I don't realize how chaotic my brain/thoughts are until it all just stops and I can enjoy some inner silence!
So I can relate a bit I think!

Anyhow, I'm wishing you the best!
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Old 12-17-13, 11:20 AM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

That's where all the carriage returns went

Thanks for sharing Modafinilguy! I'm learning from you!
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Old 12-21-13, 06:04 PM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBL1984 View Post
Ever try phenylalanine (precursor to phenylethylamine), Anatares?

Just curious. The meds you list sound like you might be low in phenylethylamine (deficiency of this neurochemical linked to ADHD).

My scientific evidence of ADHD came in the form of COMT enzyme genetics test. However, it shows that I have trouble breaking down dopamine, norepinephrine, and phenylethylamine (also a cause of ADHD), yet spent years growing up on a drug that boosted those neurochemicals even more, Ritalin. Now suffer damage because of it. The test to check for COMT is $50. I have now become an advocate of checking for that mutation before prescribing stimulants to children to make sure that a deficiency is truly at fault, not an excess. A child may have trouble describing discomfort on the wrong med, whereas an adult will say, "this is not working for me, on to the next med." That's why I believe this test is very important for children especially. I look forward to the day when genetics testing can tell us which meds may be the most helpful without all the experimenting. I have already seen it happen with one friend with a GABA, glutamate imbalance. She found the right meds thanks to her genetics test. Also knows now that she can't take vitamin D or accept methyl donors. Pretty amazing stuff.

Congratulations to Modafinilguy on his deductions! Research based trial and error evidence even if not physical.
How does one get those genetic tests?
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Old 12-21-13, 06:15 PM
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Re: I've managed to get scientific/physical evidence that I have ADHD! I'm pretty hap

So are you still on any of those drugs? Do you feel like when they were working well that they would replace stimulants for treating the ADHD?
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