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  #16  
Old 10-09-18, 10:09 PM
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Re: Shame Anxiety

allan schore has great stuff on the neurobiology of shame and its devasting effects
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  #17  
Old 10-09-18, 10:31 PM
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Re: Shame Anxiety

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Originally Posted by lisariver View Post
Yes, it's slowly registering, the differentiation. Then you (I ask) ask where is the shame coming from. Is it actually being inflicted on you from an outside force? Is it learned? Is it habit? Is it actually a memory of association? Is there any foundation to it- Or is it actually, onlookers projecting their own shame.

My parents were both catholic and in the military and had these box like images of perfect, and often even that wasn't good enough for my mother because she was still caught up in her unresolved shame. And then my siblings excelled in academics, and when comparing myself to them I always felt like a failure. So for me it's learned that way, and then it's by association because my I had little emotional support as a child, with a dysfunctional family, I could never gauge what normal was. I began to build a habitual response to life that would ensure my safety and mostly that meant being in the shadows and watching what others did first, because I didn't want to suffer the punishment of being wrong, or the ridicule. So if the fear is coming from shaming, I guess the next step is to find the source of that, is it a value judgement by others? Or is it being generated from within? Is it warped feedback with good intentions of trying to help you discern where you're off? Is it an emotional reaction gone awry? Maybe there was no shaming but just silence, and the mind carried it to the learned past.

With this adhd dx, I'm beginning to see how my emotional dysregulation had a big hand in shaping me too. I have a reaction to even seeing your definitions of shame, lol...my whole being wants to turn away, anxiety forms in my gut, my eyes can barely stand to look and see the words/definitions...they are such triggers. Thanks for the 3 antonyms So it actually brought some things to light for me, I can start working on desensitization, maybe, though it seems monumental. My lifelong approach to these emotions has been to want to die or sedate or isolate...now, i'm quite set on healing but i buried a lot, so it's going to take awhile.

As far as the fear of failing, i think with adhd, there's a tendency to take longer to learn things, and sometimes i simply can't comprehend things. So, even if there wasn't shaming involved, I think that would get to a person, after awhile- to keep failing. Or maybe I'm wrong...probably a really strong support system in place would squash that anxiety in a second, I can only guess.

I know I'm all over the place but this is how it is, you know, the best I can do thanks for letting me ponder such a variety of things.
I think shame is a natural emotion about how we feel about ourselves. I think it’s different from guilt and failure. Guilt is a right or wrong feeling about our behavior. Shame is a feeling of inadequacy. Feelings like I’m a failure, I’m not important, I’m unlovable, I don’t deserve to be happy, I’m a bad person, I’m a phony, I’m defective and so on.

I think failure is just the act of not succeeding. Where as shame is an emotion which can manifest from failure or anything else that makes one feel bad about themselves. I’ve failed at lots of things without feeling any shame at all. Failing at things that are heavily tied to our self esteem, pride and self confidence is when shame manifests from failure imo.

Maybe, think of it like this. If you got a huge pimple on your face you may feel ashamed if your friends noticed it and made fun of you. Your shame comes from the emotional response even though you didn’t fail at anything.

I agree that failing often would get to most people. I think when it does get to many of us, it comes hidden in the form of shame. That’s the revelation, I’ve taken from this. Thanks for participating and giving me more to ponder.

Last edited by Greyhound1; 10-09-18 at 11:29 PM.. Reason: Typo OCD
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  #18  
Old 10-09-18, 11:03 PM
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Re: Shame Anxiety

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I have felt this before. I would go so far as saying it affected me enough to propel me more towards alcoholism.
I found this and thought you may find it interesting. It certainly validates your statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Huffington Post

The Shame of the Alcoholic

America has a long tradition of public humiliation, but does shame really motivate people to change? Two psychological scientists decided to see if alcoholics’ feelings of shame about their addictions might actually interfere with their attempts to get sober.

America has a long tradition of public humiliation, but does shame really motivate people to change? Two psychological scientists decided to see if alcoholics’ feelings of shame about their addictions might actually interfere with their attempts to get sober.

This month in Cleveland a woman was caught swerving her car onto a sidewalk, illegally passing a school bus full of children. A judge sentenced her to stand on the street corner wearing a sign that read, “Only an idiot would drive around a school bus.” In Arlington, Tex., a billboard features mug shots of suspected johns, with the words, “This could be you.” Arlington is one of many American communities going out of their way to publicly humiliate men who buy sex, while other towns are similarly targeting shoplifters and drunk drivers. And it’s not just judges; parents around the country are also forcing their kids to wear signs — “I am a thief,” for example — to shame them into moral action.

America has a long tradition of public humiliation, dating back to stockades and pillories of the colonial era. But this recent upsurge in the use of scorn and shame is raising important questions about this practice, namely: Does it work? Does shame really motivate people to change? Or does it work the opposite way, further tarnishing people’s self-image and diminishing their sense of personal responsibility?

And how about addiction? Does the same psychological dynamic work with socially undesirable habits like drug use and alcoholism? Shame and addiction are deeply intertwined. Alcoholics may be prone to shame, by disposition, and on top of that, drinking helps numb these aversive feelings. Indeed, alcoholics may drink in part to cope with chronic shame and low self-worth, and the heavy drinking could in turn be causing shame, creating a vicious cycle of abuse.

These complex questions have never been sorted out scientifically — until now. Two psychological scientists at the University of British Columbia — Jessica Tracy and Daniel Randles — decided to see if alcoholics’ feelings of shame about their addictions might actually interfere with their attempts to get sober. They recruited about a hundred middle-aged men and women from the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, all with less than six months of sobriety. They measured their levels of shame and other emotions, along with personality traits, and then about four months later they brought them back into the lab to see how they were doing in recovery.

One reason shame has gone unstudied is that it is a very difficult emotion to capture. People who are experiencing shame tend to hide the feeling and escape it, not talk about it openly. For this reason Tracy and Randles came up with a novel way to measure shame and assess its effect on behavior: body language. They asked the volunteers to describe the last time they drank “and felt badly about it” and videotaped their responses. Then, later, they analyzed and coded their body movements and postures as a measure of their shameful feelings. People who are ashamed act very much like submissive animals, slumping the shoulders and narrowing the chest, the opposite of proud chest beating. This physical display of shame may be universal: It has been observed in a range of species, and in both adults and children of many cultures.

The scientists wanted to see if shameful body language correlated with mental and physical health, and especially with successful sobriety, four months later. This is the time window during which most newly recovered alcoholics will relapse, and indeed more than half the volunteers never made it back to the lab. But with those who did, there was an unmistakable connection between shame and relapse. The alcoholics who were most ashamed about their last drink — typically a humiliating experience — were much more likely to relapse. Their relapses were also more severe, involving much more drinking, and they were more likely to suffer other declines in health. In short, as described in a future issue of the journal Clinical Psychological Science, feelings of shame do not appear to promote sobriety or protect against future problematic drinking — indeed the opposite.

This is the first scientific evidence to bolster what alcoholism counselors and recovering alcoholics have long known: Shame is a core emotion underlying chronic heavy drinking. Shame is what gets people into the rooms of AA — it defines the alcoholic “bottom” — but it’s a lousy motivator for staying in recovery. The power of AA is that it offers something to replace the negative emotions that most alcoholics know all too intimately.
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Old 10-10-18, 10:22 AM
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Re: Shame Anxiety

What this made me think of and look for is the quote from the book "First Contact: The First Four Minutes" by Leonard Zunin. It amazes me.

How the Babemba Tribe Forgives

In the Babemba tribe of South Africa, when a person acts irresponsibly or unjustly, he is placed in the centre of the village, alone and unfettered. All work ceases, and every man, woman, and child in the village gathers in a large circle around the accused individual.

Then each person in the tribe speaks to the accused, one at a time, each recalling the good things the person in the centre of the circle has done in his lifetime. Every incident, every experience that can be recalled with any detail and accuracy, is recounted. All his positive attributes, good deeds, strengths, and kindnesses are recited carefully and at length. This tribal ceremony often lasts for several days.

At the end, the tribal circle is broken, a joyous celebration takes place, and the person is symbolically and literally welcomed back into the tribe.
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  #20  
Old 10-10-18, 11:32 AM
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Re: Shame Anxiety

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SHAME ANXIETY (Anxiety caused by shame)
Abuse and trauma, including major losses, are considered foremost causes of anxiety. We can feel anxiety about our finances or serious medical diagnoses, but most anxiety is shame anxiety, which is apprehension about experiencing shame. It’s caused by traumatic shame that has been internalized from the past, usually from childhood.

Shame anxiety affects our self-esteem. We worry about what we say, how well we perform, and how we’re perceived by others. It can make us very sensitive to real or imagined criticism from ourselves or others.

Shame anxiety may manifest as social phobia, or in symptoms of codependency, such as controlling behavior, people-pleasing, perfectionism, fear of abandonment, or obsessions about another person or addiction. Worry about our performance on the job, an exam, or speaking before a group is apprehension about how we’ll be evaluated or judged. Whereas men are more vulnerable to shame anxiety about loss of work, women worry more about their appearance and relationships. Men in particular have shame anxiety about failing or not being a good provider. Perfectionism, too, is an attempt to achieve an imaginary ideal in an attempt to be accepted by others.
This is really good!! As you can see in my signature, shame and I are very well acquainted. I deal with all of the bolded except addiction, as far as I can tell. I know that I've made some progress but not nearly enough. I've yelled at 5 co-workers in 1.5 years- all "reasons" for it were ultimately based in shame.
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Shame derives it's power from being unspeakable.
Shame corrodes the very part of us that believes we are capable of change.
Shame cannot survive being spoken. It can't survive empathy.

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  #21  
Old 10-10-18, 01:49 PM
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Re: Shame Anxiety

This does seem to be more true of America than many other places.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Huffington Post

The Shame of the Alcoholic

America has a long tradition of public humiliation, but does shame really motivate people to change? Two psychological scientists decided to see if alcoholics’ feelings of shame about their addictions might actually interfere with their attempts to get sober.
For the last decade or so I've seen so much victim shaming. UGH.

This was in my facebook feed the other day:

Quote:
"Victim" is not a dirty word,
and no one gets to tell another
when to stop "being"
or "feeling" like one
after being abused.
Copied from a friend. Some have been able to move on and feel like a survivor.
Some are still in the victimized state, even years later, and haven't been able
to find a way out or past it yet. So for them, even if it was years ago, the word
still fits.

I am all about personal responsibility, but when you've been abused and shamed
all your life for things that were and maybe still are beyond your control ...
you don't have to take responsibility for feeling like a victim.
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