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  #31  
Old 02-04-19, 05:55 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

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Originally Posted by acdc01 View Post
Which of these sources you are linking discusses studies that suggest we aren't more creative?

The most I've seen so far is one that says they are testing because they've seen other reports show mixed results (even though they don't cite those actual sources that show the mixed results) but they themselves found that we are more creative.

I doubt there is a single studied area where every single study shows the same thing. The number confirming our greater creativity seems to greatly outnumber those that say otherwise. Enough that I have no idea how we can deny the evidence.
The link I provided is to all of the articles in scientific journals indexed in PubMed that come up with the keywords "ADHD" and "creativity". (Not all are necessarily relevant, but I wanted to cast a wide net.)

Some of those studies failed to show any differences in creativity -- or showed that people with ADHD were less flexible in certain types of thinking than controls.

I don't have time to do a formal literature review at the moment, but here are a few results of the "ADHDers aren't broadly more creative than non-ADHDers" variety:

"No statistically significant difference was found in the intelligence score and the mean±SD of the total score of creativity between children with ADHD (125.2 ± 42.6) and the control group (130.6 ± 47.5) (P value = 0.49). Children with ADHD had worse function in fluency and flexibility items and were not different in originality and elaboration items."

"A widened attentional focus, that is typically associated with ADHD, has been postulated to be accompanied by enhanced creative ability. However, creativity has been only limitedly examined in ADHD. Performance across several creativity measures were investigated in three groups: adolescents with ADHD, those with conduct disorder, and a healthy control sample. The ADHD group exhibited selective cognitive advantages and disadvantages by demonstrating an enhanced ability in overcoming the constraining influence of examples, but a reduced capacity to generate a functional invention during an imagery task. These findings are interpreted with reference to inhibitory control mechanisms and the contextual modulation of creative cognition." (Note: This is one of the studies sometimes cited in support of the idea that ADHD is linked to greater creativity! But the results are clearly more mixed than that.)

"The purpose of this study is to explore whether ADHD is associated with high creative ability. Sixty-seven children, ages 10 to 12 (33 ADHD and 34 controls) completed the Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking (TTCT), Maier's Two-String Problem, and the Block Design and Vocabulary subsets of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC-III). The results show that there is no significant difference between the ADHD group's and control group's performance on either the TTCT, Maier's Two-String Problem, or WISC-III, suggesting that children diagnosed with ADHD are no more creative than children without the diagnosis."

Again, much depends on how creativity is defined and measured, and how ADHD is defined and measured.

It's true, as you suggest, that it's rare for all results on a particular topic of research to be uniformly consistent. But in this case, there's really been very little rigorous study, and there's a whole lot of wishful thinking. That doesn't rule out a connection between ADHD and creativity -- it just means that it can't be considered a proven fact that people with ADHD are more creative than others.

Last edited by namazu; 02-04-19 at 06:05 PM..
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  #32  
Old 02-05-19, 12:09 AM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

To take things in a slightly different direction...an acquaintance of mine shared this today:

(Joseph Chilton Pearce wrote about child development. I don't know much about him beyond his Wikipedia entry.)

Do you agree with this sentiment?

Do you think that those with ADHD who are creative are less afraid of failure or of being wrong -- or perhaps creative ADHDers have failed so many times that they/we just don't care anymore and are willing to try things that others might not?

(I know that for some with ADHD, repeated failure does not inoculate them/us against fear of failure, but rather heightens it.)
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  #33  
Old 02-05-19, 08:26 AM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

My daughter is more creative. When young she hated to play board games by the rules, instead making her own rules which resulted in a completely different game. Her dressing style when young was also very creative, in fact downright embarrassing for me lol. She loves to write now, at 17, and wants to attend college for creative writing. Her dreams are even more creative than my own. I'm a bit creative, my husband not at all creative, and we are not diagnosed with adhd like she is. Just our own personal experience with adhd and creativity.
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Old 02-05-19, 12:40 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

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Originally Posted by namazu View Post
To take things in a slightly different direction...an acquaintance of mine shared this today:

(Joseph Chilton Pearce wrote about child development. I don't know much about him beyond his Wikipedia entry.)

Do you agree with this sentiment?

Do you think that those with ADHD who are creative are less afraid of failure or of being wrong -- or perhaps creative ADHDers have failed so many times that they/we just don't care anymore and are willing to try things that others might not?

(I know that for some with ADHD, repeated failure does not inoculate them/us against fear of failure, but rather heightens it.)
I agree in the way that it's no good to be such a perfectionist.

I write and sing original music, now I could tweak a song to improve it, over and over. At one point I've just got to accept it's finished and move onto the next one.

A painter friend of mine said the same thing. At some point you have to accept the picture is finished and move onto the next one. Otherwise you'll never get it done.

Is this fear of being wrong? Or just not accepting anything perceived to be wrong and striving only for the best.
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  #35  
Old 02-07-19, 02:23 AM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

I'll throw my two cents into the this discussion.

for me, what I have been reading from some of you isn't exactly the degree of creativity (cause on the psychological dimension of openness people with ADHD are king, openness to new experience is the soul ingredient to creativity) it's self-confidence.

in otherwords, those of us who are confident about our creativity know that we are and don't question weather we are creative or not. you won't catch me saying, (except in a very brief example right here) "I'm not creative", cause any ego statement "I'm not" isn't confidence inducing and much of the time, a comparison to someone else happens cause of course "we can't be".

I'm mean ya, talent and proclivity and yadda yadda is part of our own individual makeup. the thing about both, and finding the creative edge so to speak (what anyone is creative in) is trying. not once or twice but over and over again, if something sticks, then ya.

the thing about self confidence though, sometimes we are creative however reject the notion that we are even though we are cause of the negative spin society puts on the notion of self confidence, often we think of bragarts and don't want to be anywhere near that category of person. I conceptualize self confidence as capturing the thought with our ego when we see ourselfs do something creative. it's not ego centric to be self confident, because to be self confident in what we do, well, I guess we brag through our work and what we do instead, thus, self confidence is captured in the work we do.
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  #36  
Old 02-08-19, 06:58 AM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

I am not convinced the science between creativity and adhd is accurate or relevant. Maybe some is, but even so what would that mean? How are these stats being interpreted and applied? My own experience, and that of some ADD people I have met, is that our asynchronous nature or some kind of non-typical propensities, force a certain (high) level of relationally compensating creativity. Not nothing, but this is not the same as a creative self, with a sense of agency, consistency in behaviors to apply this energy.
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  #37  
Old 02-08-19, 01:16 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

And how do you explain creative non-adhd people?
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Old 02-08-19, 05:27 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

viewing the notion of creativity on a psychological dimension, every person has a dimension to openness to new experiences. some are on the low end of the spectrum, some on the high end.

our disposition with the openness to new experience factor automatically puts us on the high end because of our adhd. you can also say that other people who don't have adhd can be just as high in that psychological dimension .

however, I'm going to argue the fact that a lot of psychological stuff is about knowing ourselfs and what we are good at doing, not passing on the buck to others (side note, I really am starting to think of things from an economic viewpoint). I don't think that minimizing one of the strengths that is inherent to us with adhd is very wise, in fact, sense what we think about any situation is often how we relate to the situation (be it thoughts, how we are in the world etc...) just saying "I'm not creative" creates a mental block for us. I think some of that is stigma for having adhd.

on one of the papers I read a while back a creativity test was "what can you do with a cinder block" the amount of idea's generated isn't creativity, creativity comes from the novelity of some of those generated idea's (thus, if you put 100 people in the room and 100 people say "bust a window" busting a window isn't creative. the novel concept of the cinder block (and ya, just viewing it through my lens) is putting dirt in the block holes and making it a planter, or busting it in half for a cool photography tool (looking through the block, heh). you could also bust it in half and stack the two halfs to create a funnel for water to flow, or with the same toke, a book stand (the two halfs of the block would be the bookstands)

all of those idea's are my own, with the cinder block test I haven't seen one example of anyone else with those idea's, thus they are creative idea's because they are novel idea's.

thus WE can have a creative idea and think it's not creative because THOSE idea's come naturally to me and with a sample size of one (myself) it's easy to think our idea's are not creative. the comparison shouldn't be about how others are creative, the comparison should come between the notion of idea's.

we are the people with adhd, so, we should make use of the benefits of having adhd and not be afraid to say "I can enter a flow state extremely easy, I can do massive amounts of work on something that interests me (even when the thing might not be the interesting thing but a means to an end, re-conceptualizing some stuff makes humdrum stuff important ), I am exceptionally creative". there is nothing wrong in embracing our own strengths.
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  #39  
Old 02-08-19, 06:16 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

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Originally Posted by PI-ADHD 29 View Post
I feel i can't use my potential.
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Originally Posted by 1000koni View Post
Not nothing, but this is not the same as a creative self, with a sense of agency, consistency in behaviors to apply this energy.
This is one of the most frustrating aspects of ADHD for me.

Whether or not the ADHD gives me an edge in coming up with ideas, I really don't know. But I do know that it makes follow-through on the ideas I do come up with far more difficult.

My house is littered with half-soldered art trellises and de-upholstered furniture and half-put-together music videos and all kinds of other projects that I was gung-ho to start, but lost steam and haven't finished. Sigh.
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  #40  
Old 02-08-19, 06:23 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

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Originally Posted by namazu View Post
This is one of the most frustrating aspects of ADHD for me.

Whether or not the ADHD gives me an edge in coming up with ideas, I really don't know. But I do know that it makes follow-through on the ideas I do come up with far more difficult.

My house is littered with half-soldered art trellises and de-upholstered furniture and half-put-together music videos and all kinds of other projects that I was gung-ho to start, but lost steam and haven't finished. Sigh.
Yeah I have heaps of writing projects that I started that I never managed to finish. Sighs.
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  #41  
Old 02-09-19, 04:16 AM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

I forgot to say, when i was a child i had made some simple experiments and profects. They were unthinkable, interesting and ridiculous and they never worked because they were contrary to physical rules. But of course i didn't know and care about physics rules like gravitational force.
Now i'm not creative or innovative.
I'm thinking now, maybe i've lost my self-confidence not my creativity because of these absurd projects.
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  #42  
Old 02-10-19, 04:22 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

I found this thread by following midnightstar's advice on searching. Wasn't what I was searching for, but...

I am not creative at all! So many things you read about ADHD say we tend to be creative. But I also wonder what they mean by creative. Famous people with ADHD lists seem to focus on athletes, musicians, artists.

OK, I guess there aren't many famous copy editors, so...

I've been told I have creative plans with regard to my work. Is that type of thing counted as "creative"? Does it HAVE to be in the artistic sense?
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  #43  
Old 02-10-19, 05:27 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

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Originally Posted by LeighWolf View Post
I found this thread by following midnightstar's advice on searching. Wasn't what I was searching for, but...

I am not creative at all! So many things you read about ADHD say we tend to be creative. But I also wonder what they mean by creative. Famous people with ADHD lists seem to focus on athletes, musicians, artists.

OK, I guess there aren't many famous copy editors, so...

I've been told I have creative plans with regard to my work. Is that type of thing counted as "creative"? Does it HAVE to be in the artistic sense?
I don't think creative only means in the artistic sense.

It could be using what you have in your fridge/cupboards to make a new meal,
something you've never made or eaten before.

Albert Einstein is on many lists as possibly having had adhd. While he didn't
actually invent anything, he certainly was thinking outside the box and coming
up with different theories in science.

Winston Churchill came up with scientific inventions in the military field, not all
of which worked well.

Which makes me think that I've been stuck on the idea that my creations must
be worthwhile in some way (i.e. not failures or flops) in order to consider myself
as being "creative." If I only created dishes in my kitchen that no one would
eat, would that mean I wasn't creative at all?
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Old 02-10-19, 08:04 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

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Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
I don't think creative only means in the artistic sense.


Which makes me think that I've been stuck on the idea that my creations must
be worthwhile in some way (i.e. not failures or flops) in order to consider myself
as being "creative." If I only created dishes in my kitchen that no one would
eat, would that mean I wasn't creative at all?
Right. Now that you put it in the context of other people's creativity, and mention yours, it's easy enough to see. I wonder if that desire for appreciation is a tip-off to something being a creative act. One doesn't admire the purely logical or mathematical, like an algorithm. While you can have admiration for concepts, no one would gaze at or be inspired by a ratio, let alone ask for another or wonder how you accomplished it. Creative things are meant to be shared and admired. I even consider a creative medication plan that works a better achievement than a "treat as usual" that works. And it's nice to have someone appreciate that and ask you how you arrived at the notion.

Why not share your creative endeavors here?
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Old 02-10-19, 08:04 PM
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Re: Feel i'm not creative as others of my level of intelligence

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Originally Posted by Daniel1970 View Post
I think some ADD'ers are more creative, some more energetic, some more lethargic and unfocused.
Or all of the above, depends on when?
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