On a dating downer again

[Fraser_0762]

Brilliant.

[Batman55]

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762

Brilliant.

I don't like condescension, so it's not brilliant to me.

I don't even know what the point of that is supposed to be. Making light of a very real issue, that I maybe have explained in a simplistic way, but I've no other way to describe it. I can think for myself over what some random folks are saying on the internet, but that doesn't mean these "standards" do not exist, etc.

[namazu]

Originally Posted by Batman55

I don't like condescension, so it's not brilliant to me.

I don't even know what the point of that is supposed to be. Making light of a very real issue, that I maybe have explained in a simplistic way, but I've no other way to describe it. I can think for myself over what some random folks are saying on the internet, but that doesn't mean these "standards" do not exist, etc.

As I read it, it's not condescension.
Nor is it not making light of your problem at all; it's creatively reframing your problem, in the hopes that you might be able to take a different perspective.
Obviously, the allegory didn't work the way it was intended.

[OyVeyKitty]

Originally Posted by Batman55

I don't like condescension, so it's not brilliant to me.

I don't even know what the point of that is supposed to be. Making light of a very real issue, that I maybe have explained in a simplistic way, but I've no other way to describe it. I can think for myself over what some random folks are saying on the internet, but that doesn't mean these "standards" do not exist, etc.

I'm really sorry it came across in a condescending way, that was not my intention at all! I didn't mean to say that you can't think for yourself about what people on the internet are saying, but rather that there may be another solution to your problem that you are not seeing. Think of how many men do not fit into the narrative given by these people. Most men are, in fact, not wealthy and handsome yet a majority percentage are still in relationships and a striking majority have at least some success in dating.

Earlier in this thread you also said that the only way to be successful in dating is to not be a man. Only about 1.5% of women are gay and around 10% are bisexual (with the majority of them preferring men anyway), so that leaves ~90% of women who will only date guys. The numbers look similar for men, only with a lower percentage of bisexual men. There is no way the vast majority of men are handsome and wealthy, that simply doesn't work from a statistical point of view. This leaves only two options: it's either equally bad for both men and women (which it is) or women are less interested in dating (not this one).

There is a cultural dynamic where men are expected to pursue women, which is definitely unfair, but that's not going to change in our generations. It does put more of a burden on men on dating sites and I'm not denying that. I was trying to sidestep the problem of enumerating facts and giving personal viewpoints with the story, because we have already tried that. Still, perhaps it will help if I add a personal story.

The most interesting guy I ever dated was 5'2", unemployed and flat broke. Where does he fit into the narrative? I certainly don't go around dating just anyone who comes my way, so it's not that I lack "standards." While the relationship didn't last, we did date for a good year and we didn't break up over money or looks.

I'm only trying to encourage you to try dating again with a new perspective.

[sarahsweets]

The only pay to solve a problem like this is to look at it differently. Id go so far as to say to look at it not as a problem but like a huge deep rooted tree growing straight up through the path you are on. You just have to find the right way around the tree.

[acdc01]

Originally Posted by OyVeyKitty

I'm really sorry it came across in a condescending way, that was not my intention at all!

Personally, I don't think you need to apologize at all. When nearly every woman here has said they personally don't give a crap about a guys money, job, or status, I actually find it rude that batman insists that's what all women want and that is essentially what he's doing. It's the same mansplaining we experience all that time that slowly erodes our confidence. When guys do this, they should be called out on it so it might possibly help both him and women. And I don't think we should apologize for doing it. Batman chooses to not listen to that message which is his perogative. But I myself think he should be the one apologizing and not the other way around.

As I write this batman, I'm actually quite calm and am not attacking you out of anger. I do wish you the best. I'm just telling you how I see it.

Loved your story by the way Ovekitty. Makes me want all responses to be stories lol.

[aeon]

Just be yourself, be authentic...nothing else is required, and in fact, anything else will throw a spanner in the works.

One day I realized I had nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to worry about, nothing to hide...not because any “problems” had gone away, but because I had decided to accept and love myself without apology or condition.

Within two weeks time, I had met the love of my life.

Related? Coincidence?

Who knows. I, for one, do not care.

All I know is that my sweetie is all that and a bag of chips.

And I didn’t find her on a dating site.


Cheers,
Ian

[WhiteOwl]

Having spent a little time on a dating site and seeing how shallow people are, I don't really blame Batman for his views, especially keeping in mind he has repeatedly said that he has not socialized with people in real life for a very long time. If all I had to judge men by, was what I saw on a dating site, I would think very badly of men overall. I guess that's why it doesn't really offend me. I don't think he intends offense and he does express himself politely, but they are his views based on his experience. He hasn't personally said anything against any of the women here and even admits he's generalizing and that not all women are that way. You can tell someone something over and over, but they have to experience it for themselves to believe it. I don't think he enjoys having these views.

It makes me sad that his experiences have formed these views and I hope his future experiences change his views for the better, but that will require less time online and more time in the real world, which he doesn't feel able to do at this time. It sounds like a really difficult situation, with no easy answer or solution. I have not hesitated to confront some of his ideas that I think are wrong, but I try to be supportive and not reactive. I don't think it helps anything to try to make him feel guilty for feeling the way he feels and being honest about it. This is the one place I feel people should feel safe to be completely honest. I also think that if someone grows tired of Batman's posts and his views, simply not responding at all or blocking him, is an understandable and effective way to deal with that.

I know this post will make me unpopular, but it won't be the first time, so oh well.

[aeon]

Originally Posted by WhiteOwl

I know this post will make me unpopular, but it won't be the first time, so oh well.

Why would a kind and compassionate post make you unpopular?


Well Said,
Ian

[WhiteOwl]

Originally Posted by aeon

Why would a kind and compassionate post make you unpopular?


Well Said,
Ian

Idk, in the past whenever I would speak in support of someone, people said I was taking their side and called me a traitor. I didn't really know there even were "sides", like we were supposed to be pitted against each other, I just call it how I see it.

[Fuzzy12]

Originally Posted by WhiteOwl

Idk, in the past whenever I would speak in support of someone, people said I was taking their side and called me a traitor. I didn't really know there even were "sides", like we were supposed to be pitted against each other, I just call it how I see it.

Yes people do that. Rarely on here but it happens. I once got negative rep for saying something in support of someone..

The majority of people (at least on here I think) though will appreciate it and try to understand your point. At least I will.

[Fuzzy12]

I agree that batman doesn't mean to be offensive but i think acdc has a point when she says listen to the women saying what they need or want... rather than men talking about or for them.

[Fraser_0762]

I don't think the issue is in what women say they want, but in how we as men understand it.

For example, a women might say she likes a sensitive man, but that doesn't mean she wants a guy that will constantly breath down her neck, text her 100+ times a day and will treat every day like it's valentines day. But I think we get caught up in our own obsessions sometimes and we try so hard to show a women just how sensitive we can be, but we can easily take it too far and cross the line.

When a women says she likes a tough guy, again, it's easy to assume that she just means tall and muscular. But she could mean a man with a strong personality. A man with very high resolve who isn't afraid to display leadership when a situation calls for it. Any man is capable of being that man if they put the effort in, regardless of their physical appearance.

When women say they're looking for financial security. Again, it's easy as a man to assume she's just looking for some sugar daddy who will pay her way through life. But she may just mean that she doesn't want a guy who will squander their life savings on gambling, drugs and alcohol.

I think we as men have a tendency to take things overly literal at times. We take what a women says shes looking for and we think about it in the most extreme ways, when it's actually considerably more gray than we realize.

[Fraser_0762]

Originally Posted by WhiteOwl

Idk, in the past whenever I would speak in support of someone, people said I was taking their side and called me a traitor. I didn't really know there even were "sides", like we were supposed to be pitted against each other, I just call it how I see it.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy12

Yes people do that. Rarely on here but it happens. I once got negative rep for saying something in support of someone..

The majority of people (at least on here I think) though will appreciate it and try to understand your point. At least I will.

It's the nature of man to feel like we're in constant competition. We want to be the best, the alpha, the most desired of all men. We strive to be treated like a prince. Not because we think we're above or more deserving, but because of this perceived emotional gap that we feel needs to be filled.

[Fuzzy12]

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762

I don't think the issue is in what women say they want, but in how we as men understand it.

For example, a women might say she likes a sensitive man, but that doesn't mean she wants a guy that will constantly breath down her neck, text her 100+ times a day and will treat every day like it's valentines day. But I think we get caught up in our own obsessions sometimes and we try so hard to show a women just how sensitive we can be, but we can easily take it too far and cross the line.

When a women says she likes a tough guy, again, it's easy to assume that she just means tall and muscular. But she could mean a man with a strong personality. A man with very high resolve who isn't afraid to display leadership when a situation calls for it. Any man is capable of being that man if they put the effort in, regardless of their physical appearance.

When women say they're looking for financial security. Again, it's easy as a man to assume she's just looking for some sugar daddy who will pay her way through life. But she may just mean that she doesn't want a guy who will squander their life savings on gambling, drugs and alcohol.

I think we as men have a tendency to take things overly literal at times. We take what a women says shes looking for and we think about it in the most extreme ways, when it's actually considerably more gray than we realize.

I think you actually have a very good grip on what might be attractive to a lot of women.

Having said that though it would be very difficult to mould yourself into something that you think the majority of women would like. I'd focus on being or becoming someone that YOU like and then finding a like minded woman. You might find though that the happier you are with yourself and with the activities you do in your life that the less you'll need a partner. And that kind of self sufficiency can be very attractive to women too. But then you will be the one who is in a position to choose.