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Old 10-07-08, 08:14 PM
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Went to doctor...need advice....

I went to my doctor a week ago with my mom to discuss my constant fatigue (falling asleep in library, wanting to nap a lot, no energy), irritability, anxiety, and my problems concentrating with college.

Told the doc that I had all that and I was taking fish oil, multi-vitamins, vit d, vit b12, super b complex, green tea, dl phenylalanine, passion flower, st. johns wort, valarian root, and magnesium.

My mom also chimed in saying she agreed and that she noticed those symptoms too. My mom even suggested maybe I have adhd and the doctor turned to me and asked, "have you always had problems concentrating?"

I stopped for a moment and thought about it and said, "well grade school was a joke, i never had to try hard or even at all and if you went to class you got spoon fed no matter what you did, but now it's a completely different story" and then almost like she ignored my statement she moved on to checking my breathing. Which she noticed i had a 100bpm at that point so she ran an EKG and it was fine then. Just FYI, my county in MD has one of the worst education systems in the U.S. and has the worst education system in MD besides inner-city Baltimore.

She recommended anti-depressants and I said no because of side-effects and then she pressed it again and I said fine I'll try it. I took it one day and I was so tired i could barely drive. I looked the drug up, (effexor) and saw all the "brain shiver" side effects/withdrawals and immediately threw the rest of the meds out. I encourage anyone going on AD's to look up "brain shivers" or "brain zaps".

So now I'm going back next week and I have a bit of a predicament.

I still have the same symptoms above and it is interfering with my grades at this point. SWIM has taken vyvanse before and it helped him last semester with all of his symptoms and he got straight a's and he is thinking of bringing it up at the next doctor appointment, but isn't sure about it. Any opinions on the matter? SWIM would just like to suggest to try it since it proved effective in the past. Or should SWIM just mention he still has his same symptoms?
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Old 10-07-08, 08:43 PM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Quote:
Originally Posted by demo3210 View Post
I stopped for a moment and thought about it and said, "well grade school was a joke, i never had to try hard or even at all and if you went to class you got spoon fed no matter what you did, but now it's a completely different story" and then almost like she ignored my statement she moved on to checking my breathing. Which she noticed i had a 100bpm at that point so she ran an EKG and it was fine then. Just FYI, my county in MD has one of the worst education systems in the U.S. and has the worst education system in MD besides inner-city Baltimore.
I am in the same boat. I didn't notice any symptoms until I got to University and realized that I have a problem. I didn't even need to concentrate before that.

Quote:
She recommended anti-depressants and I said no because of side-effects and then she pressed it again and I said fine I'll try it. I took it one day and I was so tired i could barely drive. I looked the drug up, (effexor) and saw all the "brain shiver" side effects/withdrawals and immediately threw the rest of the meds out. I encourage anyone going on AD's to look up "brain shivers" or "brain zaps".
You should tell your doctor s/he's an idiot for not knowing as much about the medication as you. Clearly you did your research while the doctor just told you to take the pill because it was shiny. Doctors should be required to go to school or something.

Yes, that was mean and rude, but you honestly threw away all the drugs after trying it once? The point of medication is to introduce something to your body that it doesn't have. Unless the side-effects are bad (and I am not saying yours were mild), then you should give it a few days and they actually go away often times.

Quote:
So now I'm going back next week and I have a bit of a predicament.

I still have the same symptoms above and it is interfering with my grades at this point. SWIM has taken vyvanse before and it helped him last semester with all of his symptoms and he got straight a's and he is thinking of bringing it up at the next doctor appointment, but isn't sure about it. Any opinions on the matter? SWIM would just like to suggest to try it since it proved effective in the past. Or should SWIM just mention he still has his same symptoms?
I don't know who SWIM is, but what meds are you taking now? If all you were prescribed were anti-depressants, then I don't get why the doc even bothered asking about ADHD.

Go back to your doc and see what happens. Pushing for meds that you want is pointless since they work differently on different people. You have no idea how a medication will affect you.
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Old 10-08-08, 12:20 AM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

maybe you could say you tried it in the past and would like to try it, maybe add- you never had that kind of concentration ever in your life. I'm guessing your swim, but they really don't care if someone let you try it before. That would completely push out the depression diagnosis. okay, maybe not push them out but just say your mood only is like that sometimes because your anguished about your add issues. they can't make you take AD's and if you convince them enough they'll give you the stimulant.
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Old 10-08-08, 12:52 AM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Any ideas on how to talk to my doctor about it without sounding like a know-it-all or narrow-minded? Ie) What to say?
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Old 10-08-08, 01:35 AM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

ADD is a life long condition - if you didn't have problems concentrating before college then perhaps you don't have ADD

Maybe the problem are a side effect of all that other stuff you are taking

Quote:
fish oil, multi-vitamins, vit d, vit b12, super b complex, green tea, dl phenylalanine, passion flower, st. johns wort, valarian root, and magnesium.
Surely some of this stuff has side effects and Lord only knows if all this stuff should be mixed together in the same body yet you threw the effexor out because of side effect {holy irony batman !}


Trying to get on medication so you can make an "A" because some one you know got on ADD medications and their grades when up isn't ADD - ADD medications are not for being able to stay awake either.


Quote:
constant fatigue (falling asleep in library, wanting to nap a lot, no energy), irritability, anxiety, and my problems concentrating with college.
If your doctor has a brain she won't prescribe ADD medication for any thing you have described above because it doesn't really sound like the ADD I have.
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Old 10-08-08, 02:36 AM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

mead, you don't understand where demo is coming from. Before college there was nothing to concentrate on. That's the point. School was so easy it didn't take any real effort to get A's. I am in the same boat, although I had some extra symptoms like daydreaming in class (for most of the period usually) and not being able to sit through a movie without getting bored. So it could very well be ADD if there are other symptoms present. It's like asking someone who's only ever lived in a pitch black room if he's blind or not. You just don't know.

The other supplements are fine. Fish oil is harmless, it's just some fats, B-vitamins are harmless, they are water soluble. Those things are all OTC and harmless unless you take huge dosages.

Maybe we should take a poll: who has the ADD that mead has? Anybody?

You're very quick to judge without knowing the details.
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Old 10-08-08, 08:34 AM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Quote:
Originally Posted by demo3210 View Post
I went to my doctor a week ago with my mom to discuss my constant fatigue (falling asleep in library, wanting to nap a lot, no energy), irritability, anxiety, and my problems concentrating with college.
When professionals look at ADHD in an individual, they look for a pattern of symptoms. Of the symptoms you describe, only the last would be normally associated with ADHD. The others could be related to a number of issues but depression would be a real possibility

The concentration problem could be ADHD related or could be a result of other causes including depression. These have to be screened out in an assessment.

This is not to say you are not ADHD but that other issues also need to be examined.

Might I suggest you research ADHD before your next visit with your doc.

Two very good sites for doing this are

The National Resource Center on AD/HD: A federally funded clearinghouse for science-based information about all aspects of attention-deficit/hyperactivity
disorder (AD/HD). http://www.help4adhd.org/

This is a transcript of a workshop by Barkely. It is dated 2000 but most of the data is still basically pretty good and a number of individuals have told me that it has given them a lot of insight into ADHD. I do warn however that Barkley is information dense and can be a bit of a struggle to work though. It is worth it in my opinion.
http://www.greatschools.net/pdfs/220...f?date=4-12-05

Take care and good luck on finding out what is giving you problems.

Dizfriz
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Old 10-08-08, 08:58 AM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

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Originally Posted by demo3210 View Post
Any ideas on how to talk to my doctor about it without sounding like a know-it-all or narrow-minded? Ie) What to say?
I have been on antidepressants and now I am taking Vyvanse, it was a long time before anyone even suggested that I might have ADD. I started to suspect it when I heard some of the drug commercials on TV and heard a list of the symptoms. "I would say hmmm, well I have some of those symptoms." Of course you can listen to a commercial for a heart drug describe the symptoms of a heart attack too and if you have ever had panic attacks you can say "Hmm I have had those symptoms or at least some of them." ADD is kind of a strange pickle sometimes in that not everyone has exactly the same symptoms all of the time and it can affect us all in different areas and in different ways. Back to the med subject though. You may (and probably will) find some side effects with just about any medication that you try, some less than others and some more. Antidepressants had helped me in the past when it hadn't even really entered into my mind that I may have ADD but when I began trying them recently (like over the past year or so) it seemed that all they were doing was making me sleep more and fogging up my thinking worse. The anti-depressants I had tried were Celexa, Lexapro and Paxil, I had also taken Prozac in the past to good effect before but not recently, just had fog.

I started taking Vyvanse 30 mg (small dose I know but I am just starting out, I am new at this stuff not an experienced ADDer like some of the folks around here, though I am finding that I am likely more experienced than I realized.) Now the Vyvanse is a horse of a different color entirely, it definately doesn't fog me up, I gain remarkable mental clarity on the medication and sometimes I gain additional boldness, and possibly a slight sense of power or empowerment which to some degree is good as long at it doesn't get to intense because it helpt to bolster confidence. However Vyvanse has not been without some side effects either, it has raised my bp some in the past though that is starting to not be as much of an issue now as it was previously, I was prescribed clonidine to take if the Vyvanse was raising my bp to much, mostly I just take it at night now, helps sleep too. I get really good focus on Vyvance but a nagging little headache sometimes too. I have only been on it about a week so some of these side effects, probably most of them will go away in time. I have said all of this just to basically say that it is a rare find when you find a psychiatric med that is completely free of side effects. The antidepressants fogged me up and made me want to sleep, the amphetamine (Vyvanse), sometimes keys me up a bit more than I want, has a kind of residual effect that lasts for a while after the drug effects should be worn off that will sometimes still keep me awake till 1 or 2 am sometimes (but I tend to be a night person anyway). Now the plus side of this is that the longer I am on Vyvanse so far (and it has only been a week or so) the fewer negative side effects I am having. Oh yeah and Vyvanse may decrease your appetite but I don't consider that a negative side effect at least not yet.

I think the best way to approach your doc is as a person looking for a solution, not a person looking for a substance. I am not trying to say that you are looking for drugs or anything but sometimes it is easy to come across that way and when we do I think that sometimes a doc can get a little suspicious and considering the amount of amphetamine abuse that has gone on in this country over recent years who can blame them really. Vyvanse is more difficult to abuse than a lot of amphetamines because you can't crush it, snort it or anything like that but it can still be abused orally. I suppose that it couldn't hurt to take in some drug ads for Vyvanse to show your doctor especially if he isn't very familiar with the drug.

With my doc I wasn't really looking for ADD meds or even considering ADD. I was already taking Klonopin for anxiety and I was questioning her about the possibility of increasing the Klonopin dosage because I was having difficulty with concentration and anxiety, just feeling kind of knotted up on the inside and some other things. She was the one who mentioned the possibility of ADD and taking my history into consideration she felt that it was likely. During the time I was in school you didn't hear to much about ADD or ADHD so even though I likely had it back then it would have been easy for me to not be diagnosed especially since mine is not that much of the hyperactive type.

If your doc is persistent on the antidepressants it might be a good idea to try one for a bit longer than a day, many times (just like with the Vyvanse the side effects will go away in a while 2-3 weeks a month or so, I know sounds like a long time to deal with side effects.) Welbutrin may be an antidepressant to look into as well because it has been used to treat both depression and ADD, and drowsiness is not usually one of its side effects though I think it can key you up a bit at times. I haven't taken it so I have no personal experience with it. As I am getting past the side effects of Vyvanse I am finding that I pretty much like the positive effects, it seems to do what I always wanted things like Klonopin to do but they never cut through the fog like Vyvanse does. However different drugs affect different people differently so you may or may not have the same experience as I have if your doc goes in this direction. Your Pharmacist is a good resource for talking about various meds and their side effects as well, pharmacists actually seem more knowledgable about how drugs are likely to affect you than some Dr.s are sometimes. Anyway I hope I have said something useful in my ramblings.

Charles
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Old 10-08-08, 01:41 PM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Actually, they do prescribe amphetamines for excessive fatigue. Look up "narcolepsy treatment".

Thank you for all the constructive input. I still don't know where to go with this or what I should say to the doctor. Maybe I should look into a psychologist. I'm really not that good at speaking my mind as what I want to say never seems to be able to come out (unless im on Vyvanse lol).

Any more input on what I should do with my GP appointment would be appreciated.

Thanks again.
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Old 10-08-08, 02:55 PM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

I probably shouldnīt say this because I donīt want to scare people from taking med they need, but on the other hand one should know:

So.

I got the brain shivers!!

Really scary.

But when I realized what it was, it was not so bad. I got them when I went off the drugs, and it lasted for some months, like came now and then, more and more seldom really really unpleasant, but only like 1/10 of a second duration.

My stupid doctor didnīt even realize what it was, so I had to find out on the Internet too.

For me the Effexor made my ADD a lot lot worse. Didnīt help at all, and made me REALLY inattentive. So maybe just as well you threw out the pills.

I had the fatigue too, and Ritalin took that away in no time. Got it back though...But not as bad as it was.
Iīd say go for amphetamines or ritalin.

Btw I just noticed itīs SWIM again. I met swim before. Just noticed since I never really read a whole post before I start writing:-)
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Old 10-08-08, 05:16 PM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

ADD can make you fatigued anyway, because your tired from concentrating, even if you don't know it. Your like a slug... whos moving fast in their mind,but not in the body... but everything seems hard and strenuous. okay i dont know if that was a good example,cuz slugs don't have overactive minds, I'm tired already from reading and may be a big drugged up lol....oh a good clue for an inattentive is like, feeling ansy in places where your "bored", you kinda fidget with your hands or feet. -Ugh the only thing that keeps me waiting, i much look hilarious especially when i randomly start tapping beats with my fingers lol! then in seconds i stop.

anyway, i think you already know this stuff, but like the symptoms of distractibility,daydreaming, fidgeting, or any other symptoms that stand out to you, may be a better way of showing you have a background, rather than just saying concentration problems. Write it down too or maybe just print out a detailed descrimination by a doctor about it and highlight how you can relate, I like the wikipedia one or Hallowell or Barkley http://www.russellbarkley.org/adhd-facts.htm <-- this one really intrigued me, he discusses the problems with regulating emotions and the "minds voice"/ internal language.if you don't, you're more likely to start coming up with new ideas in your head that go right out the window and forget the important part, leaving you speechless at the doctors because you don't have a set plan in mind..... I hope that helps!
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Old 10-08-08, 07:17 PM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Yeah, effexor scares the hell out of me.

I definitely fidget with my hands and feet and toes all the time. I hate watching T.V. as I get bored or lose the plot. Computer is the way to go for me as I can do a million things at once. And i totally agree that I feel tired all the time because of the amount of energy it takes for me to pay attention. That's my guess anyway.

Maybe I'm just a little ***** and can't handle things, but I need to figure out some way to talk to my doctor before Tuesday. I just get so nervous at the doctors office.

Thanks for all the help.
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Old 10-08-08, 09:02 PM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Sorry don't have time to read through all of this post, but noticed the user posted "swim," a common acronym on the forum bluelight dot ru (a site that discusses illicit drug use both prescription and non-prescription drug related).

Essentially, he said "someone who isn't me[swim] took lisdexamfetamine/L-lysine-d-amphetamine" to avoid legal troubles since he was not prescribed it, and said "well i know a friend but oh no trust me it's not me it was a FRIEND."

I don't mean to a ssume, but from your references to the illicit drug forum bluelight, and being that you have hinted at past illicit stimulant use, it seems as if you are attempting to "guide" your doctor into an stimulant amine based treatment for what's "wrong" with you. Best of luck, but I will not be commenting any further on this, I felt it was my duty to enlighten the forum goers here that you used a common aconym on an illicit drug use forum that is known for drug abuse (from the amines-to-xanax/alporazolam)
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Old 10-08-08, 09:19 PM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Valerian is a fairly strong herbal tranquilizer. If you were to go on some sort of vitamin regiment, try blue-green algae, green tea, and other uplifting herbs. From what I know about effexor from friends and my own trial is that it has a side affect of:

"abnormal vision, nervousness, insomnia, loss of appetite, constipation, confusion, agitation, tremors, yawning, palpitations, and increased cholesterol.

More serious side effects may include increased heart rate, extreme confusion, seizures, abnormal bleeding or bruising, sudden eye pain, eye redness, changes in vision, and mania or hypomania."

For some people this med works great, for other's you feel like you have landed on mars. Please be careful with this drug, I have know a lot of people who have experienced these extreme side effects.
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Old 10-09-08, 12:26 AM
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Re: Went to doctor...need advice....

Okay, I don't even know what site you are talking about, Ecu.

If you would have actually read my post instead of getting on your almighty high horse then you would have realized that I do exhibit signs and symptoms of adhd. I come here merely seeking advice as I am not good at expressing my feelings and symptoms to my doctor or anyone for that matter. Just suggest something that has worked for SWIM and that it might work for me too.

Maybe you're the one who is guiding since you have clearly been to this blue light site or w/e? I don't know why you would visit that site otherwise if it's for illicit use hmm?
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