Nothing works out for me

[Batman55]

Originally Posted by madmax988

it definitely works for everyone, in all other aspects of life too.
but being self confident/assertive/resilient and being potentially attractive are 2 different ballgames as far as my experience went. The former requires you to take charge and change for the best which is necessary.And ofcourse,it helps.

Is the assertion, self-confidence thing where you struggle then?

Obviously--I have tremendous struggle in that area, and a lot of it cannot be helped in my case. There are some improvements that could be made but I fear it's all too little, too late.. I'm in my 30s with more than a decade of social avoidance going.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Batman55

I have always said on this topic, I want to be wrong. I welcome being wrong on these things, but (at the same time) it's also very hard to be convinced as I am rigid and cynical as a rule. What I have personally seen shows that conventional avenues of success (good credentials or good income among them), tend to be associated with greater success in the dating/mating game; and, it must be said, the opposite appears linked with lack of romantic success. That's what I have seen, with my own eyes.

You say you welcome being wrong yet anytime someone tries to share with you that they think your view is skewed you counter with how its not.

[peripatetic]

Originally Posted by Batman55

I have always said on this topic, I want to be wrong. I welcome being wrong on these things, but (at the same time) it's also very hard to be convinced as I am rigid and cynical as a rule. What I have personally seen shows that conventional avenues of success (good credentials or good income among them), tend to be associated with greater success in the dating/mating game; and, it must be said, the opposite appears linked with lack of romantic success. That's what I have seen, with my own eyes.

That is, unless I am deceived. Yes, folks repeatedly tell me I am wrong or oversimplifying it. Maybe that it is the case. Maybe my limited life-experience might be too limited, or maybe I'm subconsciously drawing from the most obvious examples of success in real life, as well as being fooled by the fraudulence of media/social media about what constitutes a winner, and so on. Perhaps that's the case; I'd like it to be.

have you considered that your depiction of women as money grubbing and status seeking is demeaning and disrespectful? why would a self respecting woman want to be with someone who only sees her as a degrading stereotype?

[Batman55]

Nowhere on this site have I ever written this applies to "all women." I am speaking in generalities. I am not even aware of a broader political context to this--or anything else really--which nonetheless keeps being brought up anyway. I speak only from individual experience going by what I've seen in my own everyday life, what I've seen with my online dating experience, studies and other data available on the topic. Possibly all this is insufficient given I'm a social avoidant, and lack a solid grounding.

I'm aware some of it it could be seen as offensive, but have also said it's not a conscious effort to do so. I try to be honest about what I've seen, and in so doing, hope to challenge it as well. I feel as if some of the examples that have been given are helpful, whilst others are well-intended but probably don't reflect the plight of a lesser-abled kind of guy.

There could also be a problem with communication style. Maybe the idea is if a delicate topic is going to be addressed, there's a certain kind of abstract way to address the issue which is more palatable than the only way I know how, which is to speak directly about my own experience and observations.

And finally, maybe I am just a terrible and hateful person but not fully aware of it as yet; that's another possibility, which I'm saying without a hint of sarcasm. So maybe you lot are right. I think there are a lot of angles here.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Batman55

Nowhere on this site have I ever written this applies to "all women." I am speaking in generalities. I am not even aware of a broader political context to this--or anything else really--which nonetheless keeps being brought up anyway. I speak only from individual experience going by what I've seen in my own everyday life, what I've seen with my online dating experience, studies and other data available on the topic. Possibly all this is insufficient given I'm a social avoidant, and lack a solid grounding.

You say it doesnt apply to all women yet you still generalize and talk about "studies" and other data that backs up what you think yet you havent shared any of this info.

[OyVeyKitty]

Originally Posted by Batman55

Nowhere on this site have I ever written this applies to "all women." I am speaking in generalities. I am not even aware of a broader political context to this--or anything else really--which nonetheless keeps being brought up anyway. I speak only from individual experience going by what I've seen in my own everyday life, what I've seen with my online dating experience, studies and other data available on the topic. Possibly all this is insufficient given I'm a social avoidant, and lack a solid grounding.

I'm aware some of it it could be seen as offensive, but have also said it's not a conscious effort to do so. I try to be honest about what I've seen, and in so doing, hope to challenge it as well. I feel as if some of the examples that have been given are helpful, whilst others are well-intended but probably don't reflect the plight of a lesser-abled kind of guy.

There could also be a problem with communication style. Maybe the idea is if a delicate topic is going to be addressed, there's a certain kind of abstract way to address the issue which is more palatable than the only way I know how, which is to speak directly about my own experience and observations.

And finally, maybe I am just a terrible and hateful person but not fully aware of it as yet; that's another possibility, which I'm saying without a hint of sarcasm. So maybe you lot are right. I think there are a lot of angles here.

You don't come across as terrible and hateful at all, just hurt and (understandably) upset by it. I think the underlying problem here is that there's some cognitive bias and it's being reinforced by cultural memes and misinterpretation of available data. This is what I was trying to convey with my story, but it didn't come across very well apparently. :/ Studying something as complicated as human behavior requires a much deeper look than just quickly glancing over some numbers. Just like with any other science you have to compare your data with other data and ask why you are seeing what you are when there appear to be patterns.

So, let me give you an example. If you are looking at the statistics, you must really examine the wording and ask yourself what might have made someone respond one way or another. You can't have black and white thinking when interpreting human behavior! One of the more commonly misinterpreted statistics is "percent of women who find money to be very important in a relationship." This is based on a very poorly constructed question ("do you find money to be very important in a relationships?") which lends itself to easy misinterpretation. Personally, I answer the question with "yes, I absolutely do find money to be very important in a relationship," for example.

You are missing the "why" and "how" of these women. In my case, I have always answered it with a resounding yes, because I have no interest in dating someone who is careless with money. It's not about the amount of money, but how they handle the money they do have. This same question could be asked of men, but replace the word money with sex. Most humans do find sex important in relationships, but due to social biases, many would interpret the result as appalling and say that "generally speaking, men are perverts who are really only looking for sex."

If those questions were turned around and only statistics of "sex is important in relationships" were given for women and "money is important in relationships" were given for men, and the numbers were the exact same, would you interpret them to mean the same thing? I'm pretty sure the numbers really would look very similar from both sides, by the way, especially if the statisticians asking the questions were specific about what they really mean. This is a common problem with statistics based on self-reporting, you have to construct your questions very carefully or you will find your results strongly skewed. It's something frequently abused in politics, but in the case of this example from a common statistics site I think it's a genuine mistake by someone who didn't really know what they were doing.

Does this help you at all? Feel free to bring up any data you feel important in this discussion and we can discuss it and see what's going on with it. These forums have a pretty average spread of men and women so there's healthy input from both sides.

[userguide]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy12

Is arranged marriage an option at all? A few of my friends have arranged marriages and are really happy now. Two of my friends were really against it and wanted to find someone on their own but nothing worked out and they got so lonely and frustrated. One of them met someone through a sort of marriage website like shaadi.com I think and the other one met someone through their parents and they have both great marriages now and are really happy.

I hope this isn't offensive. I just mean even if that's not what tyou are looking for if the option exists it might not be the worst thing to Consider.

I wonder what's the secret here...

Do parents look for a different set of features?

Or they are more persistent and tolerant ?

Or maybe we are imprinted with social mating rules that turns out useless ?

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by userguide

I wonder what's the secret here...

Do parents look for a different set of features?

Or they are more persistent and tolerant ?

Or maybe we are imprinted with social mating rules that turns out useless ?

Just read yesterday about this:https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...use-texas.html

If both parties are accepting of arranged marriages that's fine but very often they are not.

[userguide]

Yeah, but I was thinking of someone like Fuzzy's friends who are happy (I assume they weren't poured over with hot oil to agree to their marriage)

[madmax988]

Originally Posted by userguide

I wonder what's the secret here...

Do parents look for a different set of features?

Or they are more persistent and tolerant ?

Or maybe we are imprinted with social mating rules that turns out useless ?

accurately speaking its more of a business deal. A game about compromises where cast/creed/race is heavily judged. Priority is given to the amount of money a guy makes, how well "qualified" (even if he might look like a roadkill) and for a girl its generally about the beauty and fairness,'character' and related attributes. These parameters have really,really strong roots at places where arranged marriage is a norm. So the final verdict has to come from the self-appointed judges(parents) who's approval seals the deal. In short,a sad circus full of egomaniac,entitled douches and approval seeking minions.

[acdc01]

Originally Posted by madmax988

. So the final verdict has to come from the self-appointed judges(parents) who's approval seals the deal. In short,a sad circus full of egomaniac,entitled douches and approval seeking minions.

I'm sorry but I think you are way too cynical on people.

First, there are plenty of parents that arent disapproving if their child doesn't pick someone with those standards.

Second, even if they do prefer what you call the normal parameters, that doesn't make them douches. Why wouldn't a parent want their child to be as financially secure as possible? people arent douches for wanting the best for their children. They are only douches if they hate on their childs partner and treat them poorly because they've determined them unfit on these parameters. And there aren't many parents that would do that. Be a little disappointed deep down, yes. But not giving their blessing and actively trying to separate a couple, no.

Also, can you really tell me if two girls were exactly the same except one was super hot and the other the opposite you wouldn't go for the hot girl? If not, then you are being hypocritical with your comment.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by madmax988

accurately speaking its more of a business deal. A game about compromises where cast/creed/race is heavily judged. Priority is given to the amount of money a guy makes, how well "qualified" (even if he might look like a roadkill) and for a girl its generally about the beauty and fairness,'character' and related attributes. These parameters have really,really strong roots at places where arranged marriage is a norm. So the final verdict has to come from the self-appointed judges(parents) who's approval seals the deal. In short,a sad circus full of egomaniac,entitled douches and approval seeking minions.

Do you feel similarly about conventional marriage?

[madmax988]

Originally Posted by acdc01

I'm sorry but I think you are way too cynical on people.

First, there are plenty of parents that arent disapproving if their child doesn't pick someone with those standards.

Second, even if they do prefer what you call the normal parameters, that doesn't make them douches. Why wouldn't a parent want their child to be as financially secure as possible? people arent douches for wanting the best for their children. They are only douches if they hate on their childs partner and treat them poorly because they've determined them unfit on these parameters. And there aren't many parents that would do that. Be a little disappointed deep down, yes. But not giving their blessing and actively trying to separate a couple, no.

Ive had relatives and friends going through arranged marriage route. regarding the former,there have been numerous instances where a perfectly normal 'eligible' individual (both concerned parties were in love) was flatly dismissed by parents just because his ethnicity/caste was slightly different. Having said that, there are families who're adjusting and supportive. Does it work for many? Sure,perfect.good for them.There are far too many complexities regarding this issue to just write about in a single post. But I strongly feel against this whole system,don't have a positive opinion and will stick with mine.

Also, can you really tell me if two girls were exactly the same except one was super hot and the other the opposite you wouldn't go for the hot girl? If not, then you are being hypocritical with your comment.

why even assume? Giving you a real life example here, Id once dated long back,a girl that can be conventionally attributed as VERY average looking, but because she was accepting and supportive to who I was as a person. Some mutual friends found it odd but I didnt care. We didn't have too much in common either.

[madmax988]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Do you feel similarly about conventional marriage?

arranged marriage is considered conventional or mainstream over here.
but to answer the question, no don't have issues with the other types. why would I?

[acdc01]

Originally Posted by madmax988

regarding the former,there have been numerous instances where a perfectly normal 'eligible' individual (both concerned parties were in love) was flatly dismissed by parents just because his ethnicity/caste was slightly different..

Oops, sorry. I didn't remember to read back on other posts and didn't realize you are from a very different culture than mine. I take back what I said cause I can't really know what it's like where you live.

I do have a question though. Do you think your lack of interest in marriage is a turn off? Cause I would think most women in most countries would want someone that can commit. There are some that don't but those are more rare.

Also, did you ask your female friends their opinion on why you can't find a partner?