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  #1  
Old 06-17-20, 12:07 AM
Drogheda98 Drogheda98 is offline
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the notion of up

this is for the pshycholoy geeks out there: A>B>C while Ac=Bc, kind of the equation of nuanced thought and a lot could be written about just that

however, I'd like to share with some of you some insights I've had, upon deep self reflection.

it's a matter of time, up is. while gardening would notice how the plants I planted into the ground would grow via time, kind of a "duh" moment, however not really,

I'd like you all to think along these lines with me, the amount of time anybody devotes to a particular anything. be it job, production, sharpening up a skill, relationships, hobies, whatever, the adage that Ben Franklin said is just what that notion of up is all about and I'll be frank, we don't want our time to be up for a while, I don't want mine to be up for a while

takers vs givers"

this is where I think the psychology of time and the notion of up is important, I've been trying to piece this notion of taking, like, who do we take from, ourselves, we take our own time from the future in the moment, when we take from ourselves we our making a promise to not only our future selves, but everybody I, and I would say all of you are around in the future. this occured to me, kind of like an invisible thought "taking a walk, but what do I take from" myself, and thus if you all take a walk you take from yourselves as well, we take time from ourselves, time is the only thing we actually have even though we flow through it like waves. when others are with us, thinking recipocously here, they are taking time away from themselves as well, thus, you all are taking time out of your lives reading my comment.

holy **** I need make my communication more accurate for both my sake and everybody elses who reads my posts. we take from ourselves, our future selves to give to others. that's what money is, a promise to our own individual future, and to others. I believe that some people actually have that concept wrong now, they take from others without that promise intact.

and this post might seem a bit weird, but I'm just now starting in these terms, a bit rusty at it.

this sentence has 5 words.

Last edited by Drogheda98; 06-17-20 at 12:32 AM..
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  #2  
Old 06-17-20, 09:51 PM
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Re: the notion of up

What is up? What is taking time? Both have dual meanings and various context. Very profound!
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Old 06-18-20, 01:33 AM
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Re: the notion of up

If Drogheda98 is standing on one side of the earth.

And mrzyphl is standing exactly on the other side of the earth.

If I asked both Drogheda98 and mrzphl to point “up”.

They would both be pointing in opposite directions.




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Old 06-18-20, 01:53 AM
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Re: the notion of up

If mrzyphl was siting on Drogheda89’s shoulders. (Or vice versa)

And I asked both of them to point “up”, they would both be pointing in the same general direction?




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Old 06-18-20, 07:45 PM
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Re: the notion of up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
If Drogheda98 is standing on one side of the earth.

And mrzyphl is standing exactly on the other side of the earth.

If I asked both Drogheda98 and mrzphl to point “up”.

They would both be pointing in opposite directions.




M
Your observation has a deep sense of gravity.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-20, 07:52 PM
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Re: the notion of up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
If mrzyphl was siting on Drogheda89’s shoulders. (Or vice versa)

And I asked both of them to point “up”, they would both be pointing in the same general direction?




M
Depends on what you mean by up. Could be 'up there', 'uptown' or 'up to something'. Hmmm. We must ponder this more deeply.
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Old 06-18-20, 09:28 PM
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Re: the notion of up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzyphl View Post
What is up? What is taking time? Both have dual meanings and various context. Very profound!
I think you are right to consider meanings and contexts.

To understand the notions of “up”, we have to consider meanings of “up”, the contexts and the relationship between the two?

Quote:
Quote:
Nobody is born with “attention.”

Like language or locomotion, being attentive is a skill we acquire.

As with all other skills, the conditions necessary for the development of attention have to be present.

It is not an isolated attribute of the child’s but the product of a relationship between the child and her environment.

“A skill is a characteristic neither of a person nor of a context, but of a person-in-context”, write the brain researches Kurt Fischer and Samuel Rose. (*3)

To understand what we call inattention, we have to consider the child, the context and the relationship between the two.

There can be no automatic expectation of owing or paying attention.

Attention is complex, the result of complex brain activity with multiple components.

The deficit of attention in ADD is not just a matter of some sluggish brain mechanism to be set in action by admonishments or rewards, or simply to be lubricated by this or that pharmaceutical product.


-Gabor Mate M.D., “Scattered, Chapter: Distractibility And Tuning Out”, P 122.





M
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  #8  
Old 06-19-20, 01:01 AM
Drogheda98 Drogheda98 is offline
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Re: the notion of up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzyphl View Post
Depends on what you mean by up. Could be 'up there', 'uptown' or 'up to something'. Hmmm. We must ponder this more deeply.
exactly, the term up always, and I've just not been listening to myself but others around me, past and present, the term "up" in a question is always a matter of time.

if you asked me, for instance, "yo drog, what's up with you" I would say well, today I've been doing a bit of gardening, glued to the internet way to much etc, I would tell you how I've been spending my time

reciprocally the same would happen if I asked what you have been up to.
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Old 06-19-20, 01:36 AM
Drogheda98 Drogheda98 is offline
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Re: the notion of up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
If mrzyphl was siting on Drogheda89’s shoulders. (Or vice versa)

And I asked both of them to point “up”, they would both be pointing in the same general direction?

M
and thats what it is, a sense of temporal dimensions, and that is probably the wrong word but whatever, nobodies perfect.

if you asked me to point up and the same for somebody else, externally we would point upwards to different places, but the answer to the question "what is up" is what we devote our time to and towards.

the inwardly connotation is this, and is the reason I posted the A>B>C Ac=Bc equation, and I'll post a bit about psychoanalytical theory as I understand it

position A that anybody is in "where A is our own individual ego either said withen or without" is what we want to do, position B is doing it(what we are doing) and position C is, for lack of a better word, reward the, equation is more than that but I digress.

on my end, I can think of what I want to do and in my mind I can, lets say driving from point a to c, I can watch myself do it like I was watching a movie of myself while I would be doing it. sort of like in my mind I can visualize myself as I would be doing in the future, and what we all pay attention to do and creates the micro-habits of attention and focus, thus I can imagine the future for me personally.

whoah

thus outwardly, yes we would be pointing at two different "ups" based on our relative position in the world as it is, however everybody's focus in the world is different based on world experience and personal history.

and that connection is what defines each of us, to know ourselves is to know others not that others are ourselves but each person in the world is a specific. I knew this before why am I... to respect ourselves is to respect others in that context I've figured because we all know how weak and powerful and courageous and foolheartedly each individual is. cause I gota tell ya all, managing my own existential crises has been grueling, and as I put a foot into my future I see the world around me crumbling it seems, I want to be part of the solution.

here I go, what's up with you all out there, you can't answer without some sort of time follow-through, or temporal dimension in which each of you spent time doing as well.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...014.00917/full
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  #10  
Old 06-19-20, 02:13 AM
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Re: the notion of up

"where A is our own individual ego either said withen or without"

sorry it's our own individualized ego in position of those variables. I could be wrong, and I accept that.
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Old 06-19-20, 02:18 AM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Re: the notion of up

Thank You Drogheda89

I am hooked, must read the article again tomorrow!

Interestingly, I was very recently wondering why, when I ride my stationary bike , my perception of time always seems to go much faster (?) when I read while cycling, verses, watchIng television while cycling?

I still do not know, but I think I might get a better idea if I work on understanding these topics, which I never really thought about before.

Lots to discuss, I hope you can help me, after I get a better understanding of the material.

It is very fascinating, when I read and bike for 20 minutes, it’s like I put my head down and start reading and look up and the 20 minutes is already over.

But if I ride the bike and watch television, the 20 minutes goes so slow, feels like an hour.

I have no idea why, looking forward to learning more, aswell as getting a better understanding of the brain systems involved.

(Edit maybe it has something partly to do with “passive attention mode”when watching tv, verses, “active attention mode” when reading?)

Thoughts?

How exciting!

Much appreciated!



M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 06-19-20 at 02:32 AM..
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Old 06-19-20, 02:49 AM
Drogheda98 Drogheda98 is offline
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Re: the notion of up

ya, no problem.

and I have the exact same experience, lets say, going to the gym and doing the treadmill was :boring" and time went so slow for me

however, when I walk outside around the neighborhood, or when I go exploring the great outdoors I'm in the zone, sometimes time stands still, sometimes time seems to speed up for me atleast.

so I think we are talking about the same phenominon, you with your bike and watching TV vs reading a book and me going to the gym which is so boring vs walking outside and doing stuff outside.

and this thought reminds me of the anxiety that people feel, and how time is perceived by them, when some people,e jump off a bunji jump there will be a clock, where the people on the ground can't read the numbers of the clock, but the bunji jumper can.

the C point, or, the reward vs not reward, the good vs meh and bad emotionally speaking. for you I would say, the reward for excersising + reading is the good and the the meh or the bad is the excersising +watching tv. so I think, we reinforce what we do (what we say to others when they say what's up to us) by the C position, or the reward vs non reward.

which, I think is the complex of ADHD, perceiving time and our emotions directed towards it is like, a sheer thought experiment for us
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Old 06-20-20, 05:35 PM
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Re: the notion of up

Focusing on origin of sense of time and “bottom up” Affective/Cognitive brain processing.

C = tertiary brain processing (id?) (temporal?)
B = secondary processing (Implicit learning and memories)
A = primary brain operating/processing systems (ego?)

(Some brain areas involved)

C = Prefrontal cortex
B = medial forebrain bundle
A = dopaminergic SEEKING general motivation system, (instinctual pacemaker) (originating in the midbrain/VTA)


Please leave room for error and learning, corrections/additions appreciated.





M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 06-20-20 at 06:03 PM..
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Old 06-20-20, 05:43 PM
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Re: the notion of up

Focusing on instinctual sense of time and “top down” Cognitive/Affective brain processing.

C = tertiary brain processing (id?) (temporal?)
B = secondary processing (explicit learning and memories)
A = primary brain operating/processing systems (ego?)

(Some brain areas involved)

C = Prefrontal cortex
B =
A = dopaminergic SEEKING general motivation system (instinctual pacemaker)(originating in the midbrain/VTA) and 6 other primary unconditioned emotional response systems.



Please leave room for error and learning, corrections/additions appreciated.




M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 06-20-20 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 06-20-20, 05:53 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Re: the notion of up

Quote:
Focusing on origin of instinctual sense of time and “bottom up” Affective/Cognitive brain processing.

C = tertiary brain processing (id?) (temporal?)
B = secondary processing (Implicit learning and memories)
A = primary brain operating/processing systems (ego?)

(Some brain areas involved)

C = Prefrontal cortex
B = medial forebrain bundle
A = dopaminergic SEEKING general motivation system (instinctual pacemaker)


Please leave room for error and learning, corrections/additions appreciated.

———————————————-***************—————————————-

Quote:
Focusing on subjective temporal(?) sense of time and “top down” Cognitive/Affective brain processing.

C = tertiary brain processing (id?) (temporal?)
B = secondary processing (explicit learning and memories)
A = primary brain operating/processing systems (ego?)

(Some brain areas involved)

C = Prefrontal cortex
B =
A = dopaminergic SEEKING general motivation system (instinctual pacemaker) and other 6 primary unconditioned emotional response systems.


Please leave room for error and learning, corrections/additions appreciated.
I feel/think we must have both, “bottom up“ and “top down” brain processing for working sense of time.




M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 06-20-20 at 06:10 PM..
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