ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > CO-EXISTING CONDITIONS > Bipolar
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-02-19, 11:39 PM
ballpointpen ballpointpen is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
ballpointpen is on a distinguished road
Bipolar and ADHD

I have been diagnosed with bipolar for 5+ years. Clear manic episodes and diagnosed by about 4 different psychs. However, I was referred to the adhd service in a neighbouring borough and after testing was found to have adhd inattentive subtype. My problem is, my adhd psych (who is separate from my normal psych) argues with me that I do not in fact have bipolar at all. She is an adhd specialist so Iím not sure she has the ability to undo the last 5+ years of my life but she says my bipolar is actually down to trauma I experienced as a child.

Can adhd and bipolar not coexist? The trauma I experienced as a child has been laid to rest but now she has me questioning my bipolar diagnosis and I loathe medication and am wondering whether to stop taking my bipolar meds if it is not truly bipolar. She tried to tread my adhd with atomoxetine which didnít work out so well (I became very withdrawn, lack of energy, motivation, low sec drive) and she claims this is because he atomoxetine forced me to focus but on the wrong things (my childhood). I didnít think about my childhood at all but she is insisting that she will not try another drug, only atomoxetine because I have a history of drug abuse (I have been clean now for 13 years). I refuse to take strattera again because of the negative experience so does that mean I just have to live with unmedicated adhd and bipolar which I apparently donít even have?

My life has been full of hospital admissions, manic psychosis, suicide attempts and now I just feel like my whole life is a lie. I have no idea what to do. So sorry this is so long, Iím still trying to get it straight in my head.

Any advice?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ballpointpen For This Useful Post:
namazu (11-04-19)
  #2  
Old 11-04-19, 06:24 AM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,847
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,637
Thanked 6,377 Times in 3,015 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballpointpen View Post
I have been diagnosed with bipolar for 5+ years. Clear manic episodes and diagnosed by about 4 different psychs. However, I was referred to the adhd service in a neighbouring borough and after testing was found to have adhd inattentive subtype. My problem is, my adhd psych (who is separate from my normal psych) argues with me that I do not in fact have bipolar at all. She is an adhd specialist so Iím not sure she has the ability to undo the last 5+ years of my life but she says my bipolar is actually down to trauma I experienced as a child.

Can adhd and bipolar not coexist? The trauma I experienced as a child has been laid to rest but now she has me questioning my bipolar diagnosis and I loathe medication and am wondering whether to stop taking my bipolar meds if it is not truly bipolar. She tried to tread my adhd with atomoxetine which didnít work out so well (I became very withdrawn, lack of energy, motivation, low sec drive) and she claims this is because he atomoxetine forced me to focus but on the wrong things (my childhood). I didnít think about my childhood at all but she is insisting that she will not try another drug, only atomoxetine because I have a history of drug abuse (I have been clean now for 13 years). I refuse to take strattera again because of the negative experience so does that mean I just have to live with unmedicated adhd and bipolar which I apparently donít even have?

My life has been full of hospital admissions, manic psychosis, suicide attempts and now I just feel like my whole life is a lie. I have no idea what to do. So sorry this is so long, Iím still trying to get it straight in my head.

Any advice?

With a history like that it seems hard to deny bipolar. Childhood trauma is also well recognised as causing or worsening PTSD.

See link:
https://journalbipolardisorders.spri...345-015-0042-0


However plenty of us have bipolar and ADHD.
I think nobody would advocate stimulants in active mania, but outside that period they are often co prescribed.


Im on Dexamphetamine 10mg BD
and slow release lithium 1350mg at night.

Many psychiatrists control against addiction by only allowing a weeks worth at a time to b e prescribed.

I know of very few ADHD individuals who have addiction problems with stimulants./.


They can be an issue in the upswing of mania- as you push your dose to keep it all together ( which doesnt work).
__________________

Whenever you see a crowd all rushing in the same direction on any one issue, run in the opposite direction.

There is neither fun nor profit to be had in polishing the brass knobs on a bandwagon.
Nicholas Nasseem Taleb.


Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kunga Dorji For This Useful Post:
BouCoupDinkyDau (12-20-19), namazu (11-04-19)
  #3  
Old 04-13-20, 11:39 AM
undopaminergic undopaminergic is offline
Newbie
 

Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: North Europe
Posts: 7
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
undopaminergic is on a distinguished road
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

It's bipolar I if you've had mania(*). What caused it, be it childhood trauma or genes, is irrelevant to the diagnosis.

Atomoxetine does not "force" you to focus.

(*) depending on the psychotic symptoms it could also be schizoaffective disorder.

-undopaminergic
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #4  
Old 04-14-20, 03:12 AM
sarahsweets's Avatar
sarahsweets sarahsweets is offline
Mod-A-holic
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: nj, usa
Posts: 28,833
Thanks: 5,816
Thanked 33,408 Times in 15,486 Posts
sarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/ho...rder-and-adhd/
Here is an excellent article I found and I encourage you to look at it beyond what I have quoted.

Quote:
In community samples, almost 60% of pediatric ADHD patients have been found to have an affective illness.1 On the other hand, nearly 10% of bipolar patients are found to have comorbid ADHD.2

Studies indicate bipolar disorder should be treated first. ADHD symptoms tend not to ideally respond unless comorbid bipolar disorder is first treated optimally.3
Quote:
In community samples, almost 60% of pediatric ADHD patients have been found to have an affective illness.1 On the other hand, nearly 10% of bipolar patients are found to have comorbid ADHD.2

Studies indicate bipolar disorder should be treated first. ADHD symptoms tend not to ideally respond unless comorbid bipolar disorder is first treated optimally.
Quote:
Treatment of ADHD and Comorbid Bipolar Disorder
Treat bipolar symptoms first and if ADHD symptoms persist, titrate ADHD medications carefully
It may be safe to use stimulants if bipolar symptoms respond well to a mood-stabilizing agent
Some evidence suggests that atomoxetine can be used safely and effectively in combination with mood stabilizers
Stimulant use requires ongoing monitoring as it may destabilize the mood disorder
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballpointpen View Post
I have been diagnosed with bipolar for 5+ years. Clear manic episodes and diagnosed by about 4 different psychs. However, I was referred to the adhd service in a neighbouring borough and after testing was found to have adhd inattentive subtype. My problem is, my adhd psych (who is separate from my normal psych) argues with me that I do not in fact have bipolar at all. She is an adhd specialist so I’m not sure she has the ability to undo the last 5+ years of my life but she says my bipolar is actually down to trauma I experienced as a child.
Are you on medication from the bipolar doc? Are you discussing medications for adhd?
Quote:
Can adhd and bipolar not coexist? The trauma I experienced as a child has been laid to rest but now she has me questioning my bipolar diagnosis and I loathe medication and am wondering whether to stop taking my bipolar meds if it is not truly bipolar. She tried to tread my adhd with atomoxetine which didn’t work out so well (I became very withdrawn, lack of energy, motivation, low sec drive) and she claims this is because he atomoxetine forced me to focus but on the wrong things (my childhood). I didn’t think about my childhood at all but she is insisting that she will not try another drug, only atomoxetine because I have a history of drug abuse (I have been clean now for 13 years). I refuse to take strattera again because of the negative experience so does that mean I just have to live with unmedicated adhd and bipolar which I apparently don’t even have?
You know hearing that you will not be considered for a stimulant due to past drug use really irritates me. Studies have shown over and over that treating adhd is actually better for someone with addiction issues because it targets executive function and decision making. It helps control impulsiveness and compulsive decisions. I am an alcoholic in recovery and I would never have gotten sober without medication.
__________________
President of the No F's given society.

I carried a watermelon?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sarahsweets For This Useful Post:
Little Missy (04-14-20), undopaminergic (05-11-20)
  #5  
Old 04-16-20, 03:46 PM
jmilly jmilly is offline
Jr Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sunnyvale
Posts: 24
Thanks: 4
Thanked 18 Times in 9 Posts
jmilly is on a distinguished road
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

Research studies show that about 70 percent of people with the bipolar also have ADHD, and that 20 percent of people with ADHD will develop Bipolar Disorder.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-18-20, 01:07 AM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,847
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,637
Thanked 6,377 Times in 3,015 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmilly View Post
Research studies show that about 70 percent of people with the bipolar also have ADHD, and that 20 percent of people with ADHD will develop Bipolar Disorder.

Further stats show that at least 10% of bipolar is secondary to head injury, and head injury is also a factor in many late onset cases of ADHD- later childhood.
__________________

Whenever you see a crowd all rushing in the same direction on any one issue, run in the opposite direction.

There is neither fun nor profit to be had in polishing the brass knobs on a bandwagon.
Nicholas Nasseem Taleb.


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-11-20, 10:27 PM
daveddd daveddd is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: May 2009
Location: cleveland
Posts: 9,201
Thanks: 10,960
Thanked 11,431 Times in 5,580 Posts
daveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond reputedaveddd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/ho...rder-and-adhd/
Here is an excellent article I found and I encourage you to look at it beyond what I have quoted.



Are you on medication from the bipolar doc? Are you discussing medications for adhd?

You know hearing that you will not be considered for a stimulant due to past drug use really irritates me. Studies have shown over and over that treating adhd is actually better for someone with addiction issues because it targets executive function and decision making. It helps control impulsiveness and compulsive decisions. I am an alcoholic in recovery and I would never have gotten sober without medication.
Still gotta be careful

All the studies are stimulants given to people with no addiction and the outcome being better

None about giving them to people with addiction already
__________________
now is the time ...for me to rise to my feet...wipe your spit from my face...wipe these tears from my eyes!!...hatebreed
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-12-20, 04:34 AM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,847
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,637
Thanked 6,377 Times in 3,015 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
Still gotta be careful

All the studies are stimulants given to people with no addiction and the outcome being better

None about giving them to people with addiction already
This is a very grey area.

Untreated ADHD is a major source of drug seeking behaviour.

No surprise- the untreated gravitate either to stimulants (which can be very helpful if they come with good advice and a commitment to using the drugs as medication to treat dysfunctional behaviour, rather than chasing a dysfunctional high; or they gravitate to downers (opioids especially) to reduce their happiness.


However that relationship is not recognized in the literature.

Aggregating the research to metanalyses is really hard here as it is hard to be sure we are all even talking about the same thing.

The diagnostic system of DSM is an awful mess and we need to clarify that mess before we go further.
__________________

Whenever you see a crowd all rushing in the same direction on any one issue, run in the opposite direction.

There is neither fun nor profit to be had in polishing the brass knobs on a bandwagon.
Nicholas Nasseem Taleb.


Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kunga Dorji For This Useful Post:
namazu (05-12-20)
  #9  
Old 05-13-20, 03:31 AM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,847
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,637
Thanked 6,377 Times in 3,015 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bipolar and ADHD

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
Still gotta be careful

All the studies are stimulants given to people with no addiction and the outcome being better

None about giving them to people with addiction already
This is why we have clinicians- to ensure individualised attention by skilled practitioners for all patients. We have to move past diagnoses and focus on the individuals.
__________________

Whenever you see a crowd all rushing in the same direction on any one issue, run in the opposite direction.

There is neither fun nor profit to be had in polishing the brass knobs on a bandwagon.
Nicholas Nasseem Taleb.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opinions on Dr. Daniel Amen's technique for adults with ADD? PinkPanther_04 Adult Diagnosis & Treatment 27 04-23-18 03:54 PM
DIAGNOSING BIPOLAR VS. ADHD Lafnalot Bipolar 26 12-07-15 03:06 PM
Article on the Rise of ADHD ccom5100 Children's Diagnosis & Treatment 20 12-06-13 02:47 PM
Adult and Child ADHD Assessment Centres in UK launter United Kingdom 27 12-20-10 09:05 AM
Bipolar Disorder Linked to ADHD in Children Andi AD/HD and Bipolar in Children 5 07-09-05 02:17 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums