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Old 03-17-14, 05:17 PM
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A wish of owning my own mind. Warning, super long post :p

Hey there. This will be quite a large post but it will probably be the most important one I will ever post here so it is my hope that someone might plow through this essay and maybe shed some light upon my conundrum. I have so many questions, some might have the simplest answer, some may not ever be answered.

Anywho, 29 year old Swedish bloke. I got diagnosed with ADHD around 2 weeks ago. Finally, I thought to myself. Not an excuse, rather an explanation.

A little backstory;

Ever since I was a child, I've had major issues functioning. I was sent to doctors throughout the years doing tests. None came up with there being any real issues with me, warranting any sort of diagnosis.

I was always considered very intelligent, but then again, there were never any "challenges" in these tests. Basically; "Hey, that kid managed not to try and slam the circular block into the triangular hole, such a genius have no problems related to ADHD!".

Here's the list of problems.. I'll try to be as informative as I can. I might add that two or three times a year, lasting for just a few hours to maximum of a day, I used to feel a "clarity of mind and body". These days, I would draw for hours, I would write songs, and actually -do things-. These "moments" never had a trigger in routine, diet or excercise. They were totally random.

So;

1) Plagued by an incredible fatigue, mental and physical.

I always had to sleep way more than the other kids, I fell asleep whenever I was still basically.

In adult years, this manifests itself in me yawning constantly, unable to resist the urge for more than half a minute. Feeling that my body is made out of lead and every movement is an effort. My thought process is slow and I can not "access" that which I know I possess.

This is however paradoxal to the fact that I have NEVER been able to fall asleep when "it's time". No matter how utterly exhausted I am, from strenious work or whatever, I will lay in bed for 1-3 hours, thinking, thinking, thinking, being unable to shut it off, and being unable to sleep.

Being tired all the time pretty much makes you severely depressed and equals;

2) A -total- lack of motivation and drive.

I never feel inspired. I never feel lust in doing anything. I've always been "meh" about everything. I have always WANTED to be able to WANT, but I've never felt an urge to do things. This pains me every second and every hour because I can not force creativity, I can not force an interest. I have tried but the overwhelming apathy is one wall I've never been able to overcome. The agony lies in me being aware of my potential and the few talents I have, but the inability in being able to access them.

3) Hundreds of paralell thought-processes clogging up my mind, soaking up everything.

And I am powerless in controlling it. It's like trying to sail in the waters below a supercell. The problem is that every observation is acknowledged and fights for attention in me interpreting it and attempting to apply it, not only to the current situation, but to every single scenario in the past that I find that particular piece of information to be of relevance. It's useless stuff like noticing a slightly raised eyebrow from a person far back in the bar while that person is simultaneously drinking a lager beer at a rather fast pace. He's wearing this and that and his speaking pitch rose while addressing one of the bartenders while not the other, and not in the way typically adhering to what could be construed as simple discrepancies in phrasing melody. It was definitely outside of a pattern. His high pitch did not match his tall stature, exception to the rule maybe, but his voice did have a ring to it, his timbre suggesting vocal training. Etc etc bla bla.

All this happens simultaneously, not this first then that, as when written. This is just a fraction of the observations that happen in the blink of an eye. The thing is, everyone works like this I believe, but subconsciously. For me, it's all verbalized inside of my head wether I want it or not.

My psychiatrist told me that my mind is working so much that it is likely to produce the fatigue. I'd say I lack normal noradrenergic function. But hey, she's the educated one.

4) Lack of empathy and a not-so-lack in aggression.

I can't feel for people. If something sad happens I can react upon it, but it takes just such a tiny thing as the person in pain having a horrible nasal voice for me to feel nothing but anger and disdain for him/her. This trait is the one I'm the most ashamed off. A depressed person is, by default, less empathetic and more egocentric. Given. But to that extreme?

These are, on the top of my head, my biggest issues.

So, around half of the time during my teens, up until this day, I've been put on different SSRI's. One after one they failed to produce any effect other than lowering baseline while not cutting off the depth of the trenches. They effectively made it impossible for me to laugh, that's about all.

I was put on an SNRI about a year ago, Venlafaxine, in an attempt to counter my fatigue as well as elevating my mood, but I was not told of the hell people usually went through when coming off them. I did not benefit from them at all. I was on 300 for half a year and halved my dose in an instant and after a week I quit it entirely. I did not get any withdrawal symptoms, no brain zaps, no nothing. What's up with that?!

Here's chapter number two, The Amphetamines-period. The one thing that makes doctors show their own incompetence more than anything else, is their utter lack of knowledge regarding drugs, but the incredible amount of judgment they place on a person when they find out he's/she's been doing them.

Late 2012, I had a full time job at a coffe-bar, it drained me. I slept 12 hours a night and worked for 8 and had no energy for anything else. But it was working. I then found a band which I clicked with immediately and I quickly realized that I did not have near enough energy to work and then rehearse on only 12 hours a sleep at night. I was getting ineffective at the job and I fell asleep during rehearsals.

So I took three days where I read up on amphetamine (not meth, mind you xD), how it worked, what it did, when and why it did it. What differed between the isomers, how to counteract tolerance, how to reduce/avoid tremor, bruxism, mydriasis, how to best supplement to counteract the negatives etc etc...

And I decided to start with it, because, as I said above, the amount of hurt in knowing that you have an interest deep inside as well as the talent for it along with the potential to grow but allthewhile being unable to find any reason, happiness, lust or passion in doing it.. It's just unbearable...

So I started at a low enough dose not to feel a thing basically. I wanted to avoid the euphoria, but I wanted enough energy to last a day and enough motivation to do something...

What I did not know was that wow... My head became so tranquil... I had that clarity that I mentioned above. I could actually focus. I could actually LISTEN to others instead of talking endlessly et cetera.

So I took some speed daily for about a year. Every day the same dose in the morning. I purified it as best as I could with various "cleaning techniques", making sure I knew what I put in me. I never binged, I never stayed awake during nights, nor did I ever need sleeping aids to fall asleep - I actually fell asleep without a problem now, without these thoughts racing through my mind.

I accomplished more during 2013 than I had done in my entire life combined up til then - and there was quality to what I did.

However... There were drawbacks of course, I'm not one to romanticize and sell one-sided stories of things.

My mom has been an IV speed addict for 25 years. Whenever I see her, I would be disgusted by what I did myself and fear that I might end up where she had. Of course, we're totally different people in every respect, but my entire being just reacted to that; the delusions, the paranoia, the toothless mouth..

So after around half a year into it, I'd try to quit around once a week - silly me.

This is where my life went to utter and complete crap. And this is of importance because my future depends on what I can gather here from other people's knowledge.

I quit my job for legitimate reasons. We were 5 people on a staff of 7 who put in notice that same month.

So I had no job. But the band was doing really well, much better than any of us ever would have dreamed off. I also got myself a girlfriend, whom I came to love - I actually could feel for people now...

Without a job, I focused all my time on the band. I was unable to pay for our rehearsal studio but the guys were okay with that because of everything I did for the band outside of the studio.

However, my girlfriend lost all emotions for me in a matter of three days. It was such an odd feeling... She explained that she was bipolar and probably had gone into a depressive episode - she had no positive feelings at all, for anyone or anything - not just me. I decided I would reach into her and get her back to her old smiling and loving self - I would not leave her, like everyone else had always done when she fell..

How stupid I was believing I could do that... I stayed and fought for her and withstood such a tremendous amount of emotional blows until I broke down and couldn't handle it anymore and cut contact with her... I basically ruined myself, I gave all I had of my brains, wits and love to her in order to help her when no one else did. (her family renounced her with the words "where's not mentally deranged in this family")

So there I was, no job, broken heart, with only the band going.

I tried to quit the speed, as I said, once a week, which threw me in the most depressed I've ever been. I never had panic anxiety in my life, but I got it in late 2013, what a victory! I became such an ******* when "coming off", that I texted things to people that I still have not dared read because of how ashamed I am and how disconnected it was from my regular person - I always lacked empathy, but I was never evil, I never said things in an attempt to ruin and break those closest to me.

I did my best trying to isolate me from the outside world while coming off, but life doesn't pause and as we released our first single I was hosting the party. The sixth day off was always the worst.. But every damn time something appeared that I could not postpone.. So I was back on in order to function because the band was all that I had left.

However, the band grew tired of me not being emotionally stabile or realiable, and the tension grew unbearable as I took over more and more as the band had become, well, me... So finally while trying to come off the speed again, I got a text from a band member, and I was "the other me", so I basically tore him to pieces, insulting his every fibre in the most vile of ways...

Needless to say, I got the boot, well deserved.

So, now I had nothing except a habit I wanted to quit.

There were some things that happened around this time too that I have not mentioned, that were even more painful, but I just.. It's too demanding putting it down into words...

2013 was the happiest and most productive year of my life, as well as the worst hell I've ever been through.

When I mentioned to my doctor, that I had been using speed. She turned on me in an instant; "we can't help junkies and the problems they have due to it." I was like; "Ehm, I've had all these issues my entire life ma'am, I did not start speed at 3, I did so at 28...". The retort was as idiotic as her first response; "a junkie's lies, you must realize your problem and accept that the drugs are the cause, nothing else."

Good thing though, she quit for some unknown reason and I got a new doctor. This guy made no mention of the speed. Curious, I thought. He however said that I clearly had ADHD and he put an internal team on it. After a few sessions he said; "you will have to quit the speed in order to do this though, which means you'll have to pee in a cup". I replied; "You knew all this time?" And he responded; "Yes, but there was no need in bring it up as it was clear to me very quickly that you do not 'abuse' it, but rather attempted to use it therapeutically. You do not shake at all, you do not talk like a madman, you make sense and you clearly have problems enough around you to make sense of the depression, as well as, you know, 25 years of history in our journals."

So that's when I quit. That was soon 5 months ago. Since then I've basically been in bed, like a zombie, having the same lack of motivation or will to live as I've had my entire life. The diagnosis of ADHD came back and there was a consensus regarding it.

So.. (if anyone's gotten this far; seriously, neither do I write a compelling story nor is it that interesting really, but thanks ) the problem ahead is this;

I will be put on methylphenidate first. I am scared as hell since it's more anxiogenic than dextroamphetamine, which being as politically stigmatized as it is, is deemed the second choice.

WHAT DO I DO???

1) Even if I end up on d-amph, controlled and therapeutic doses, I will still build tolerance and the dips in the evening will bring me below my already depressed state.

2) Would Voxra work well as an antidepressant while on CS for the ADHD? It's structurally similar to speed, but they do vary vastly in many areas.

3) Why doesn't SSRI, do crap for meh? o_O

4) Will I simply require larger and larger doses to remain clear in thought until one day I'll find that I've lost my teeth, my skin complexion and my sanity?

5) Anything I should think of? Magnesium citrate, L-Tyrosine and other supplements seem to have yielded not even a marginal benefit in terms of countering tolerance, smoothening down the come-downs or anything other than eliminating the tremor and bruxism.

6) Anything helpful at all would be much appreciated..
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  #2  
Old 03-18-14, 07:18 AM
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Re: A wish of owning my own mind. Warning, super long post :p

You mention abusing speed yet you say you researched amphetamines, so was it adderall/dexedrine or illegal speed? regardless if it was a form of self medication, its seems you were abusing it, in which case that does make you an addict no matter how you slice it. You should get some drug treatment whether or not you take stimulants theraputically.








Quote:
WHAT DO I DO???

1) Even if I end up on d-amph, controlled and therapeutic doses, I will still build tolerance and the dips in the evening will bring me below my already depressed state.
Building tolerance is some what of a myth. People seem to think if they dont feel their meds that it automatically is tolerance. A real test for whether or not they are working is to see how it is when you stop them, If your symptoms come back and kick your as* then they work for you.

Quote:
3) Why doesn't SSRI, do crap for meh? o_O
because SSRI's dont work for some people.

Quote:
4) Will I simply require larger and larger doses to remain clear in thought until one day I'll find that I've lost my teeth, my skin complexion and my sanity?
If you need to take that much of prescribe stimulants then they wouldnt work for you because its smoking METH not pharmacuetical stimulants that make you lose your teeth

Quote:
5) Anything I should think of? Magnesium citrate, L-Tyrosine and other supplements seem to have yielded not even a marginal benefit in terms of countering tolerance, smoothening down the come-downs or anything other than eliminating the tremor and bruxism.
If you get hung up on tolerance and trying to work out ways to counter act it you will be wasting time worrying about something that may or may not be a problem-and wasting time. If you experience a harsh come down or other negative side effects then its too high of a dose.

Again whether or not you believe this, I encourage you to at least get a therapist to help you figure out why you abused speed because its not just self medication and honestly, your first doctor flipping out? Thats actually not uncommon because you WERE abusing something illegally and its her license and reputation on the line, not yours. You have a history and a genetic predisposition for abusing speed. You may tell yourself it was self medication and maybe it partly was, but there is always more to the story in these kinds of situations.
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Old 03-18-14, 07:32 AM
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Re: A wish of owning my own mind. Warning, super long post :p



Just make sure you gotta good doc

All this intricacy of treatment detracts from openings and momentum... grieve... yes.... slow yes..... accept yourself.... mostly... the inner self yes...

The above will get you further than any "best" medication...

What do you love?
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Old 03-18-14, 11:25 AM
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Re: A wish of owning my own mind. Warning, super long post :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
You mention abusing speed yet you say you researched amphetamines, so was it adderall/dexedrine or illegal speed? regardless if it was a form of self medication, its seems you were abusing it, in which case that does make you an addict no matter how you slice it. You should get some drug treatment whether or not you take stimulants theraputically.









Building tolerance is some what of a myth. People seem to think if they dont feel their meds that it automatically is tolerance. A real test for whether or not they are working is to see how it is when you stop them, If your symptoms come back and kick your as* then they work for you.


because SSRI's dont work for some people.


If you need to take that much of prescribe stimulants then they wouldnt work for you because its smoking METH not pharmacuetical stimulants that make you lose your teeth


If you get hung up on tolerance and trying to work out ways to counter act it you will be wasting time worrying about something that may or may not be a problem-and wasting time. If you experience a harsh come down or other negative side effects then its too high of a dose.

Again whether or not you believe this, I encourage you to at least get a therapist to help you figure out why you abused speed because its not just self medication and honestly, your first doctor flipping out? Thats actually not uncommon because you WERE abusing something illegally and its her license and reputation on the line, not yours. You have a history and a genetic predisposition for abusing speed. You may tell yourself it was self medication and maybe it partly was, but there is always more to the story in these kinds of situations.
Thanks for the reply..

Allow me to clarify; I did quit speed and have been clean for 4,5 months. This was illicit speed that I purified in order to make sure the dosage remained fairly the same as I was not particularly fond of "gambling" whenever you got a new batch.

Point is, I'm clean now and I am back to the person that I was and have been my entire life.

I never said I was not addicted. I pretty much wrote in my original post that I knowingly entered an addiction However, this is down to semantics. My doctor and the neuropsychiatrist team claim I was a user, not an -abuser-, simply because I wasn't interested in a kick, nor once strayed from my original dosage or plan which was to alleviate my symptoms and function as normal person, not to chase a high.

But addiction is addiction and you're right on there. But people are "addicted" to their SSRI's as well. Semantics. Tell someone on Effexor to cease their use and watch how pleasant the aftermath will be. Like I said, I never craved a high or longed for a rush - I just wanted to function. The same reason that I tried every SSRI in the book... So please, don't make such quick judgments =) By your rationale I need drug treatment when on d-amph as well seeing as my doctor said I should expect the same results from it and that it's my inherent depression and the fact that life collapsed on top of me that caused the severity of the depression moreso than the actual cessation of the drug. (even though it, of course enhanced it, but so would methylphenidate in an even greater manner apparently o_O)

Regarding tolerance; when quitting a drug such as this, you will go below baseline for a while - your symptoms WILL be back with a vengeance. That is due to the much decreased dopaminergic activity in frontal and dorsal striatum primarily.. I think of tolerance more like... If I get the desired effect and function for a few months, but slowly notice a decline in the positive effects of the drug - not from external factors, but rather from within. Then I have built tolerance. This is something I attempted to counter by supplementing with magnesium with high bioavailability. Not sure it worked or not, since I have not done speed without added magnesium

Regarding "METH", actually, not, it's not smoking meth that makes you lose your smile - Amphetamines and it's noradrenergic component makes your salivary glands "work less". In small doses you do produce less saliva, but it's more noticable the higher the dosage is. My mother lost her teeth in her mid 30's after having used regular speed intravenously for 10 years at high doses. Add to that the fact that people tend to forget to hydrate and drink lemonade instead as well as skipping brushing their teeth et cetera...

And to your last argument; I've been seeing shrinks my entire life. I've seen 37 different ones over the years because my depression was resistant to -everything-. I must say that I find you to be rude when you say that I did not use speed in order to clear the fog in my head and to get the energy to be able to function normally.

There is no "genetic disposition to abuse speed". What is hereditary however, is being more prone to succumb to addictions in general. But here's what separates me from my mother; whenever she has, she takes. She would prantz around the livingroom hanging up painting in the middle of the night - with an imaginary hammer, nail and painting. Then she would stair out the window for hours because she saw a shadow in the bush...

This horrible year proved to me that despite being at my life's lowest - I had the character and discipline not to "indulge". People are different - there is no set pattern or some homogenous denominator that effectively makes us all the same. I have a genetic predisposition for developing thin hair and well-pronounced MPB (male pattern baldness) in the 20's, yet I have no receding hairline, no hair loss and extremely thick hair. Goes to show that you can not "predict people".

Sorry for getting defensive, but I felt that you totally misread my entire post basically =p Either way, thanks for the reply, no hard feelings :>

Someothertime; I love music - when I am "me". But when I am the muddled and sluggish Patrik that is 99% of my time, then I love nothing. Not my family, no interests, no will to live - at all.

That is what makes it all scary. When I am down (which is my norm), I do not have a survival instinct at all. The only thing that has kept me alive is the fear of failure :/
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