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Dexedrine/Dextrostat (dextroamphetamine)

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  #1  
Old 05-13-19, 11:55 AM
KoblinV3 KoblinV3 is offline
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Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

What is your guys' opinion on taking your meds everyday vs 5 days a week? I have a method where I can keep my tolerance nonexistent however it requires I take at least two days off a week.

This is great in that it's much more effective on the days I use it (like as effective and feels the same as the first time I took it) but it also has its downsides.

For example I may not develop a tolerance to the positive effects but I also don't develop a tolerance to the side effects either.

So my appetite is very suppressed and I have a hard time taking my full prescription as my last dose induces insomnia due to the lack of tolerance.

Like normally I could take my last dose at 6pm or just before and sleep fine. Using this method, however, I can't take it after 2-4pm (4 is really pushing it) and sleep normal.

I have read that although you develop a tolerance and get some downregulation in your other dopamine receptors, that you don't develop a tolerance in your D4 receptors. This what some guy (lol I think reddit?) said is the reason you don't develop a tolerance to the helpful focus/cognitive benefits of add meds.

I have no idea the validity of what he said but it would hypothetically make sense considering most people here claim that same phenomenon occurs but don't really have an explanation as to why. Ie. You develop a tolerance to the euphoria, motivation, mood, and stimulating aspects but the focus still remains the same.

I just am not sure what to do because I don't know if I should keep this up and keep my dose effective and low forever or if I would be better off taking more over time.

I mean in theory I can reset my tolerance pretty quickly whenever so even if I was on 90mg a day I could get it back to zero within a few weeks tops. Tbh even with that kind of tolerance I don't think more than a week would be necessary. Probably like 5 days is my guess.

So it's kind of like why not take it everyday and get full coverage and then in a month or two just reset it?

BTW I utilize the compensatory response to reset my tolerance. I can explain how to do it if anyone is interested. It's like magic in a way lol. Very quick and effective.

So yeah it's basically like do I just care less about the motivation/energy/mood loss and take it 7 days a week or do I keep doing it this way. The problem I guess is that I have ADD-PI so the increased motivation part is super helpful. Also because it's dexedrine and not adderall I get motivation but not anxiety. However once tolerance sets in it basically goes away unlike with adderall (or at least less so).
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Old 05-13-19, 12:39 PM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

I have ADHD-PI, severe presentation.

I take 60mg dextroamphetamine sulfate every day.

I've never had any issue with tolerance or lack of effectiveness. Similarly, side effects are present and do not lessen.

My 2¢.

Cheers,
Ian
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Old 05-13-19, 01:13 PM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

Yeah I wondered if a dose increase would resolve the need for that kind of stuff. Did you titrate right up to that dose? Just seems my pdoc is going to be stingy about a higher dose but I'm not sure.

That was what I needes to hear though. I hear people talking about tolerance and dose increases being necessary but I'm always wondering if their unintentionally chasing euphoria or something.

That's really good to hear. I guess if my pdoc is really difficult about it I can try being more assertive or get a new one if necessary. It's just I'm literally on the lowest dose for an adult (10mg) so it'd be a bit ridiculous if I couldn't get a dose increase.

I do notice if I take them all the time they lose some of their effectiveness but that could just be me needing a higher dose versus something that would happen on any given dose!
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Old 05-13-19, 02:23 PM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoblinV3 View Post
Did you titrate right up to that dose?
I started taking 3 x 15mg spansules and increased to 4 x 15mg spansules. I now take IR. I've been at 60mg for years.

Cheers,
Ian
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Old 05-14-19, 05:44 AM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

Can you explain your compensatory response a bit more? I'm interested
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Old 05-14-19, 02:59 PM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

Alright I will describe it but I want add a disclaimer. If you're going to do this do it at your own risk. It is possible to upregulate dopamine receptors in undesirable parts of your brain (ie. you'd experience symptoms like inability to sleep for more than 6 hours, things feeling too good that shouldn't in a distracting and unproductive way, uncontrollable movements, etc).

In theory this kind of upregulation to dopamine would take months but I don't think anybody knows the exact time frame. From what I've seen I'd say at the very least 3 weeks plus. It's kind of complicated as far as knowing you're doing it safely but I will describe how I can tell below.

The concept (read the reddit link for more details and better in depth explanation) is that when tolerance develops, it's because your brain is attempting to reach a state of homeostasis and to protect itself from the effects of the drug.

So you take dexedrine, it raises dopamine levels to a high level, and then your brain lowers dopamine levels to adjust. It remembers what the chemical does and then every time you take it thereafter it does the same thing it did before.

This is why the comedown exists because it's a continuation of the compensatory response. So you have an inadequate amount of dexedrine to compensate for the lowered dopamine levels your compensatory response is implementing. Thus you feel terrible because you have even lower dopamine levels than before you took the meds at all.

So what you're doing is taking very low doses to train your brain to feel its not necessary to decrease dopamine/norepinephrine so much in the presence of dexedrine. It adjusts the compensatory response based on the dosage.

So it's response is directly proportionate to the dose. So you might think of I have a tolerance it must be I have low dopamine levels compared to before. It's more that you have lowered dopamine levels in response to your dose of dexedrine due to your brain's defense mechanism against neurotoxicity.

With the compensatory response you take roughly 10% of your dose for at least one day and up to several. I haven't found more than a few days necessary but I have noticed it's more efficient the longer you do it for.

Now it would be safer as far as potentially unwanted dopamine upregulation for me to take say 2.5mg or 5mg of my 10mg dose to employ this method. However, I find it takes longer with those doses and I'm impatient so I take as little as I can to speed things up.

It is riskier in theory but from what I've read I believe at the very least I'd have to do this for several weeks for any upregulation to occur. I haven't noticed any signs of it whatsoever.

The most obvious way I can tell is my response to my medication. If my dopamine receptors were upregulated and my compensatory response extremely changed then my reaction to my meds would be extreme.

Basically my dexedrine would be stronger and longer lasting than when I first took it. I have not noticed anything like this at all. The effects have been just the same as when I first took it. No more for sure.

So anyway the way I do it that I find most efficious while still being safe is I take approx 1mg for a few days. I think the most I've done is 4 days. This method shouldn't require more than that for any tolerance level, no matter how extreme. I know it might seem to good to be true but it's not.

The other thing I do is instead of just doing 1mg a day I find it more effective to do 1mg every 6-8 hours or so. That way it gives the compensatory response more oppurtunities to work. It also works better if you don't have the med in your system from a previous therapeutic dose but I feel doing it the day after is still more effective than taking a day off.

I have been doing this for several months now and have not noticed anything remotely resembling dopamine upregulation. I've had periods where I haven't been on meds for a week or so and I've been my same hungry, "lazy"/unmotivated, sleepy/tired, unfocused, procrastination fueled, dopamine seeking (reddit, internet, tv/movies) ADD-PI self. Nothing indicative of any changes to dopamine.

I realize the half life of dexedrine is long (so you would think you're just raising the dexedrine in your bloodstream and making it less effective) however I've personally found this to work more quickly and effectively.

The upregulation part happens because when you take a very low dose of a given drug, it can have the opposite effects it normally would. For example amisulpride is an antipsychotic that reduces dopamine. However low dose amisulpride (50mg I believe) increases dopamine.


(study showing up regulation)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9885781/

(study showing downregulation from high doses.. The low dexedrine/adderall doses do the opposite of this)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10024013/

Info on the compensatory response can be found in the DrugNerds subReddit under "a short explanation on comedowns" and tolerance

Last edited by namazu; 05-14-19 at 03:20 PM.. Reason: No links to other forums. Please see ADDF guidelines.
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Old 05-14-19, 03:23 PM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

Thanks again Ian. I just took my extra dose even though I thought it would interfere with sleep. I've been afraid to because my sleep schedule has been off. I realized my dose is definitely too low.

I hadn't even considered that was a possibility until my third dose yesterday. I think the cumulative effects of my dexedrine lead to what felt like an increase in dose. I was much more productive and organized than I'd been in months. My anxiety actually lessened (another unexpected turn of events), huge increase in focus, my motivation increased a lot, I could think more clearly without nearly as much effort, and I had that sense of urgency to get things done I'd been missing for some time.

Im going to talk to my doctor and see if I can adjust my dosage. I forgot how well add meds work when the dosage is right (just got back on them a bit after the start of the year). I hadn't been on them for so long I forgot how much they helped me previously.
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Old 05-15-19, 07:59 AM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

The compensatory response is honestly quite interesting but scary at the same time since it's really not certain what happens if you do that over a long period of time >1 yr. I guess people that take meds >1 yr experience an increase in DAT density which is also not the best so maybe... YOLO
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Old 05-15-19, 12:24 PM
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Re: Dexedrine everyday vs. 5 days a week

Yeah I just found a study showing what you're talking about. I was unaware of that. I wonder if they do increase density in differing parts or not depending on low dosage vs. therapeutic dosage. If not that would be disconcerting but I imagine that is actually the case because otherwise we would see these types of side effects I listed popping up in add patients.

Yeah so I hear what you're saying but at the same time every case I've seen where someone has unintentionally sensitized their dopamine receptors (because of doing it for months) they're always extremely sensitive to their medication. Given I have noticed nothing like that (just typical effects and typical slightly lessened effects the following days) I really don't think that it's happening over time.

That is a good point to bring up to anyone considering doing this. Given how long it's been though, I really have to assume I would have noticed something by now if that was happening.
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