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  #61  
Old 07-01-12, 11:57 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

On a side-note, a psychologist informed me that intelligence tests are moving towards more working memory-heavy measures. If that's true (not sure), I would rather not think what that means for ADHD-afflicted individuals.
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Old 07-02-12, 12:24 AM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

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Originally Posted by MentalNomad View Post
On a side-note, a psychologist informed me that intelligence tests are moving towards more working memory-heavy measures. If that's true (not sure), I would rather not think what that means for ADHD-afflicted individuals.
Wow. That would suck.
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  #63  
Old 07-02-12, 12:27 AM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
ive been reading about hypersensitive infants quite a bit lately

along with infants that switch from hypo to hyper sensitivity in their first year


it is interesting how many separate disorders (axis 1 and 2) are correlated with that infant temperament style

the disorders all have quite a bit in common , maybe other factors contribute to different defense styles that are the difference in the diagnosis
Davedd

I will need to look up the information thanks!

Never thought of the hyposensitive before.

Dr.Mate has a really good chapter called, Emotional Allergies.

In Scattered.

In my own words.

And If I understand it correctly Emotional Allergies are comoribidities.

Quote:
"Depression, anxiety, addiction would be the most common comorbidities"
-Dr.Mate
There is evidence that high exposure to cortisol,

during the third trimester can effect the sensitivity.

Prenatal Development of dopamine circuitry in the brain.

Can be interrupted by high levels of cortisol.

Especially in the third trimester,

and during the critical time of neurological brain development of the first three years of life.



.
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  #64  
Old 07-02-12, 12:40 AM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

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Originally Posted by MentalNomad View Post
On a side-note, a psychologist informed me that intelligence tests are moving towards more working memory-heavy measures. If that's true (not sure), I would rather not think what that means for ADHD-afflicted individuals.
It would likely be a good thing- more people with ADHD will be diagnosed. The current psychiatric methods of diagnosing ADHD are outdated and flawed. IQ tests are used primarily to diagnose learning disabilities and disorders like ADHD. The more that working memory is measured by an intelligence test, the better that test will be able to help detect ADHD.

The previous WAIS was fairly useless for assessing ADHD. The current test focuses more on working memory, and is also more useful for evaluating ADHD. Still, when a neuropsychologist uses the current WAIS to evaluate ADHD, they have to fiddle with the results a bit so that working memory is given even more importance.
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Old 07-02-12, 12:41 AM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

Quote:
Sensitive children come to be called "difficult" because adults have trouble understanding their temperament and because parenting methods that work with other children are frustratingly inadequate with this group.

Like the related phrase "terrible two's,"

"difficult child" shows grown-up bias.

In the child's experience,

it is the adult who is ornery.

Were children the arbiters of language,

we would hear of the "difficult parent" and the "terrible thirties."
Gabor Mate, M.D., Scattered, P60.
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  #66  
Old 07-02-12, 06:38 AM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimoo Back-Y-Rita View Post
Davedd

I will need to look up the information thanks!

Never thought of the hyposensitive before.

Dr.Mate has a really good chapter called, Emotional Allergies.

In Scattered.

In my own words.

And If I understand it correctly Emotional Allergies are comoribidities.



There is evidence that high exposure to cortisol,

during the third trimester can effect the sensitivity.

Prenatal Development of dopamine circuitry in the brain.

Can be interrupted by high levels of cortisol.

Especially in the third trimester,

and during the critical time of neurological brain development of the first three years of life.



.
Davedd,

I think I made a mistake above?

Maybe I should have said comorbidities might be the result of emotional allergies(ADHD),

exposed to certain environmental circumstances?

The severity of the Emotional Allergies(ADHD) can be the result of inherited sensitivity or abnormal exposure to physical and/or emotional stress,

(especially during the critical time of neurological brain development)?


There is evidence that high exposure to cortisol,

during the third trimester can effect the sensitivity.


Prenatal Development of dopamine circuitry in the brain.

Can be interrupted by high levels of cortisol.



Opinion?
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Last edited by mildadhd; 07-02-12 at 06:54 AM..
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  #67  
Old 07-02-12, 03:49 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

Ana's got a few good points about the problems related to ADHD with high IQ - anyone who knows you're smart will never waste an opportunity to make you feel like more of a failure for not performing. It makes it so you don't even need anyone else's help to feel bad for not "living up to your potential."

Which can cause depression and anxiety to be added to the mix, so who the heck can tell at that point what's causing the problems?
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  #68  
Old 07-02-12, 06:16 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

I hear it all the time. You're smart, you ask good questions, you're putting the pieces together. Then when I ask for an extra couple of days to get something done, "that wouldn't be fair to the other students." Yes, because I'm doing this to myself. ::head desk::
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  #69  
Old 07-03-12, 03:19 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

After reading a large portion of this article, it seems that working memory correlates very strongly with IQ, and that "it is very rare to find a correlation that strong".

This snippet seems particularly relevant to the ADHDer

Quote:
People who have a high working memory capacity may simply be better at ignoring distractions.

"[They] may not have more memory slots than other people," Luck said. They may just be better at keeping relevant information in memory and irrelevant information out."
Ignoring distractions, working memory, intelligence tests, ADHD, gee I wonder what the link there is?
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Old 07-03-12, 03:39 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalNomad View Post
After reading a large portion of this article, it seems that working memory correlates very strongly with IQ, and that "it is very rare to find a correlation that strong".

This snippet seems particularly relevant to the ADHDer



Ignoring distractions, working memory, intelligence tests, ADHD, gee I wonder what the link there is?

I don't know. All I can tell you is that when I took the Mensa Admissions Test it was not under the best conditions. I had to get up quite early on a Saturday morning to drive to Rochester, Minnesota where I had never been before (at least not driving myself). I had had a bad week of insomnia. It seemed like I had gotten the equivalent of one normal night's sleep only when you collectively added up the sleep I'd gotten over 4 or 5 nights. I was in that mode your body goes into when it's sleep-deprived - energy-saver mode, where you expend the least amount of energy you need to get through the day.

When I got to the testing site, the first part of the test involved listening to a story being read. I knew there would be questions asked about the story later so I concentrated really hard not only on listening, but on mentally visualizing everything that was described. The questions about the story did not come until the end, after the other, written part of the test was done, but I'm pretty sure I got most of them right, so the visualization must have worked.

I don't think the other questions required much in the way of working memory, though. Those I seemed to move really slowly through, jumping around like I tend to do, but never able to finish all the questions in a section, and sometimes not even managing to finish very many at all, it seemed to me. But I managed to score high enough to qualify for membership. But because of the insomnia the whole day is kind of a blur for me.
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Old 07-03-12, 03:51 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

Are you unconvinced that working memory impacts general IQ? I suppose there are exceptions, but I think the effect of working memory can be subtle enough even by the perspective of a person that utilizes it greatly (such as on spatial tests). Regardless of working memory, I can only say that my level of sleep profoundly effects my mental performance. Someone's definition of intelligence could be more aligned with mental fortitude, not much I can do about that, I guess. I've had years of extremely poor quality sleep, though.
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Old 07-03-12, 04:07 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

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Originally Posted by MentalNomad View Post
Are you unconvinced that working memory impacts general IQ? I suppose there are exceptions, but I think the effect of working memory can be subtle enough even by the perspective of a person that utilizes it greatly (such as on spatial tests). Regardless of working memory, I can only say that my level of sleep profoundly effects my mental performance. Someone's definition of intelligence could be more aligned with mental fortitude, not much I can do about that, I guess. I've had years of extremely poor quality sleep, though.
No, I'm not convinced one way or the other, I was just recounting my experience.

There ARE times when I have noticed that lack of sleep almost seems to make my mind clearer, as though the distractions are shut off, and I can concentrate only on what I need to do and the rest kind of goes away. But I'm sure that's not the norm, or a reliable result every time I'm sleep-deprived.

I assumed after learning that I had gotten a qualifying score on the test that I would have gotten a higher one if I had not been so sleep-deprived. That was kind of the silver lining I took away from it. I figured if I passed in that state, I could only assume I'd have done better in a normal state of mind, so at least I knew I wasn't just on the borderline of the IQ level required. Not that it really matters, I guess.
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Old 07-03-12, 06:03 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

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Originally Posted by Amtram View Post
Ana's got a few good points about the problems related to ADHD with high IQ - anyone who knows you're smart will never waste an opportunity to make you feel like more of a failure for not performing. It makes it so you don't even need anyone else's help to feel bad for not "living up to your potential."

Which can cause depression and anxiety to be added to the mix, so who the heck can tell at that point what's causing the problems?
For me, it's more that I feel someone's opinion would change of me if I don't measure up. I know someone with an IQ of 170 (took the RAPM, I think) who believes I am in the gifted range, and he's attempted to make flattering comparisons between the two of us. I know I could never live up to that, especially in the realm of visual processing.

I've had similar positive comments, but I can't help thinking "if they really knew me..." Even going off of one aspect of the Downing Effect, where those with a high IQ are better at estimating others overall, I still have my extreme doubts.
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Old 07-03-12, 07:07 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

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Originally Posted by MentalNomad View Post

I've had similar positive comments, but I can't help thinking "if they really knew me..." Even going off of one aspect of the Downing Effect, where those with a high IQ are better at estimating others overall, I still have my extreme doubts.
I've got this theory that after a certain IQ point level, people with very high IQ's seem to get more detached from "the rest of us," less in touch with "average" people. Some with genius level IQs seem to be LESS certain about things, less sure about what they believe and more confused.

I wouldn't be at all surprised though if you are in the gifted range, judging just by your posts.
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Old 07-03-12, 07:27 PM
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Re: ADHD and General Intelligence - the Biological Perspective

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I've got this theory that after a certain IQ point level, people with very high IQ's seem to get more detached from "the rest of us," less in touch with "average" people. Some with genius level IQs seem to be LESS certain about things, less sure about what they believe and more confused.

I wouldn't be at all surprised though if you are in the gifted range, judging just by your posts.
Well, one individual I used to interact with was more specific and suggested I was in the highly gifted range, a person who by all intents and measures is extremely intelligent (high IQ, physicist), and it's just one of those things where I'm more anxious due to the pressure.

Not to mention, I've had interactions online where others would vehemently attempt to impose their somewhat negative views of me onto me, but those were in the distant past. I think that's where the dissonance comes from, it's especially hard to erase failure even in the face of genuine compliments, they always feel like permanent stains.

Thanks for the compliment, though, and I'd be reciprocal, but it would be a redundant presenting of information you already know.
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