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Old 08-09-17, 09:10 AM
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Working Memory

I take dexamphetamine male early 20's. When having a conversation i donít feel like i have anxiety, the capacity/processing work memory is poor, its very difficult building a narrative around a conversation, so i know where Iíve been and where its going which makes me unable to contribute to the conversation. Iím left being confused and frustrated, because Iím not understanding parts of the conversation (my mind is clouded).when i read/write its nearly the same. It is only a little better because i can go back and read infinite times which i do and/or correct my own understanding/response to that.

All this, has made me to develop anti-social behaviour and poor self esteem. i feel like i am being held back by this from potentially learning knowledge and experiencing social/non-social life. It is possible to see that it has made others think Iím stupid/slow and they lose interest as a result. Iíve failed having potentially new and old friends, jobs, social activities, self-esteem

i canít move on in life and have become quite down and limbo for quite a while now. and that is because of this short term memory issue. this has been going on for a few years i just wanted to see how i went with dexamphetaine since 2015.

when i read/write its nearly the same. It is only a little better because i can go back and read infinite times which i do and/or correct my own understanding/response to that.

Iíve done online tests (digit & spatial memory test) on this websites and Iím ok with these http://www.memorylosstest.com/free-w...-tests-online/

i know its handy to keep notes but it is still difficult an such an issue because i feel like i need to be writing notes in my notepad 24/7. and that just doesnít work. if there was medication to help improve that (if it exists). would it help a lot with finding my interests, learning as well as social behaviour? Thank-you.
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Old 08-09-17, 09:21 AM
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Re: Working Memory

Welcome to the board!

I, too, struggle with working memory but mine manifests with some similarities to yours and some differences. Auditory is definitely more of a struggle for me. I do all right with written insofar as learning and generating my own content (I like to write, blog, etc.) - but I can't multitask or deal with interruptions that break my train of thought.

Reading your post, I can't help but wonder if there is more going on - I'm from the United States, so I don't know what your healthcare system is like, but is it possible to push for a more in-depth evaluation, possibly neurological?

And in the immediate, is the medication you're on possibly interfering with your sleep? I've read several places that for people with ADD, sleep disorders are often common, and we seem to have the deck stacked against us for being able to get quality sleep anyway - difficulty shutting our brains off, etc.

Good luck to you - hope you find some answers! We're here to help!
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Old 08-10-17, 12:26 AM
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Re: Working Memory

For me the trick is being intellectually gifted, that takes care of all the worst stuff. Be gifted is my advice.

The extra processing power is a boon, for sure

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Old 08-10-17, 07:53 AM
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Re: Working Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhLookABunny View Post
Welcome to the board!

I, too, struggle with working memory but mine manifests with some similarities to yours and some differences. Auditory is definitely more of a struggle for me. I do all right with written insofar as learning and generating my own content (I like to write, blog, etc.) - but I can't multitask or deal with interruptions that break my train of thought.

Reading your post, I can't help but wonder if there is more going on - I'm from the United States, so I don't know what your healthcare system is like, but is it possible to push for a more in-depth evaluation, possibly neurological?

And in the immediate, is the medication you're on possibly interfering with your sleep? I've read several places that for people with ADD, sleep disorders are often common, and we seem to have the deck stacked against us for being able to get quality sleep anyway - difficulty shutting our brains off, etc.

Good luck to you - hope you find some answers! We're here to help!
In 2015 i have done 2 technetium HMPAO nuclear scans for both concentrating and resting cerebral perfusion. i have a test result in written description/interpretation which supports the clinical suspicion of ADD.
this has been my life since i can remember, its still continues to effect me. after the test i have add/adhd then i was priscribed. and here we are, still not coping this same issue. thanks OhLookABunny
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Old 09-23-17, 12:00 AM
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Re: Working Memory

I hear you loud and clear. I'm 45, when I was in elementary school, I don't think ADD/ADHD was recognized. I was always "Mr. chatterbox", and a disruption. Teacher couldn't seem to put 2 and 2 together. In later grades I just fell behind because of a lack of organizational skills. Studying didn't help, because whatever I read, I forgot almost instantly, and I didn't bother doing my homework. Unfortunately, there weren't any resources for people like me, so I slipped through the cracks. I felt/feel stupid. This is still an issue for me today in my work life, I have an extremely difficult time learning new things, anything, for that matter. They get frustrated, I get frustrated, it's not a good time for anyone. Not many people are understanding of this, they just think I have a bad attitude. So yeah, you're preaching to the choir. How much does it cost to get assessed? I'm a cheapskate to boot so...
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Old 09-24-17, 08:45 AM
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Re: Working Memory

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Originally Posted by Robert P View Post
I hear you loud and clear. I'm 45, when I was in elementary school, I don't think ADD/ADHD was recognized. I was always "Mr. chatterbox", and a disruption. Teacher couldn't seem to put 2 and 2 together. In later grades I just fell behind because of a lack of organizational skills. Studying didn't help, because whatever I read, I forgot almost instantly, and I didn't bother doing my homework. Unfortunately, there weren't any resources for people like me, so I slipped through the cracks. I felt/feel stupid. This is still an issue for me today in my work life, I have an extremely difficult time learning new things, anything, for that matter. They get frustrated, I get frustrated, it's not a good time for anyone. Not many people are understanding of this, they just think I have a bad attitude. So yeah, you're preaching to the choir. How much does it cost to get assessed? I'm a cheapskate to boot so...
You would want to see a psychiatirst and it would depend on their fees and your insurance. If you meet with one that wants to "test " you with all these expensive out of pocket tests run the other way cause there are no tests for adhd. There are some tests to rule out other learning disabilities but no brain scans or mechanisms or machines to test for adhd no matter what some doctors will say.
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Old 09-25-17, 02:05 AM
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Re: Working Memory

I feel I am a bit better at remembering conversations than what you describe, but that's likely because I do experience anxiety.

The main issue for me is that my thoughts go to some other (related) place mid-conversation, and I miss large chunks of what is said. Is it the same for you?

Meds have helped a lot, as well as mindfulness (for quieting down the mind a bit in general) and therapy (for reducing some anxiety-related intrusive thoughts).
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Old 09-25-17, 03:02 AM
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Re: Working Memory

Irrespective of the topic, it's almost impossible for me to remember what someone has said during a conversation. I hope stimulants can help me in this regard because my working memory is so appalling that it is preventing me from getting to know anyone.
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Old 09-26-17, 08:54 AM
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Re: Working Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeboo View Post
I take dexamphetamine male early 20's. When having a conversation i don’t feel like i have anxiety, the capacity/processing work memory is poor, its very difficult building a narrative around a conversation, so i know where I’ve been and where its going which makes me unable to contribute to the conversation. I’m left being confused and frustrated, because I’m not understanding parts of the conversation (my mind is clouded).when i read/write its nearly the same. It is only a little better because i can go back and read infinite times which i do and/or correct my own understanding/response to that.

All this, has made me to develop anti-social behaviour and poor self esteem. i feel like i am being held back by this from potentially learning knowledge and experiencing social/non-social life. It is possible to see that it has made others think I’m stupid/slow and they lose interest as a result. I’ve failed having potentially new and old friends, jobs, social activities, self-esteem

i can’t move on in life and have become quite down and limbo for quite a while now. and that is because of this short term memory issue. this has been going on for a few years i just wanted to see how i went with dexamphetaine since 2015.

when i read/write its nearly the same. It is only a little better because i can go back and read infinite times which i do and/or correct my own understanding/response to that.

I’ve done online tests (digit & spatial memory test) on this websites and I’m ok with these http://www.memorylosstest.com/free-w...-tests-online/

i know its handy to keep notes but it is still difficult an such an issue because i feel like i need to be writing notes in my notepad 24/7. and that just doesn’t work. if there was medication to help improve that (if it exists). would it help a lot with finding my interests, learning as well as social behaviour? Thank-you.

I just want to say that reading your post alone was in a way relieving for me because I feel the exact same way. I can't listen to people, I can't find the words to explain my thoughts sometimes and I get side tracked so often that it's a challenge to have even a simple conversation. I've been diagnosed since 23 (27 now) and notice this more often, but being able to catch myself being sidetracked causes me to feel frustrated at my self and embarrassed, and then I can't remember where I was and have to ask the person where I was so I can rewind and try and explain it again. I'm 27 and hate that I have to ask people to remind me what I was just saying and all of these negative feelings just from talking alone have made me try and just keep to myself. Learning about ADHD was great, it makes sense and it's nice to know I'm not just a lazy moron, but at the same time has made things "worse" because I get mad at myself when I catch things that I do, but cant ever prevent it from the start.

This post may not be of any help, but I wanted to share because it's nice to know it's not just me that feels that short term (or working?) memory is one of the biggest internal frustrations.

I feel like I can't do anything because I can't keep it in my mind long enough to absorb any of the info. I can't think about just ONE thing for more than a second or two before my mind goes wild. Even writing this post, I've stopped to try and remind myself what the actual post was and became negative and frustrated at myself for thinking I'm probably just ranting on and side tracked and will have no importance to the OP. If that was the case, I'm sorry. I feel crazy and malfunctioning when I try and explain things, but it's easier when writing like this.

Also, sometimes I explain this to friends/family that it's like when you're listening to somebody talk. You need to put so much effort into trying to force focus and remember what is said that you miss 85% of it. Picture the words coming out of their mouth towards you when they speak, and you're trying to grab as many of them as you can with your hands to "absorb" them, and in doing so, miss even more. Feelings of being overwhelmed, frustrated and embarrassment then sink in as your turn in the conversation is about to begin.
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Old 10-01-17, 08:33 PM
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Re: Working Memory

I have a similar problem, but its more about the complexity of my thoughts. My thoughts are too complex, are carrying too much information and disappear too quicly. If I want even only one of my thoughts to be written down, it takes a tremedous amount of effort. I have to reproduce it constantly; recreate it as soon as my working memory loses it only to be able to make sure that every aspect of it is on paper (which is never true, I always lose a good amount of it). Also, the structure of the resulting explanation is chaotic, it takes even more effort to rebuid the Idea from that puzzle. So when I can write, it takes an increadible amount of time and effort to be able to produce a text that can clearly explain about 60% of the thought I had created in about 0.1 second. When I can't write, it is nearly impossible to communicate any new thoughts. So the majority of what happens in my mind simply can't be shared in everyday life. Which made me kind of socially anxious and distant, how can you build any relation while knowing that the majority of who you are is simply unaccessible to others.
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Old 10-01-17, 09:39 PM
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Re: Working Memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbrady1 View Post
Irrespective of the topic, it's almost impossible for me to remember what someone has said during a conversation. I hope stimulants can help me in this regard because my working memory is so appalling that it is preventing me from getting to know anyone.
So what do you think is de-railing your listening?
It could be a number of different mechanisms- and the picture is complicated by the fact that in those of us who have these issues, they have been going on so long that we are no longer aware of them.

If in a noisy environment- sensory integration/sensory processing disorder could be part of it. ie Overload of working memory due to too muh information (caused by an inability to integrate sensory data).

If there is something causing a stress response (and it need not be an interpersonal problem) the stress response could be causing the difficulty listening (it is hard to listen when your body is telling you to run away.
That would cause a deficit of working memory.

Now the other area of interest is the underlying neurological issues.
We know for instance that internalised thought evolved through the internalising of planning movement- so thought and movement are closely related.

It has been proposed that there is an underlying problem with balance and coordination driving many of the symptoms in ADHD. This was first proposed by a US psychiatrist Harold Levinson, but initially ignored. At around the time European researchers began describing a more troublesome form of ADHD called deficits of attention, motor control, and perception.

I have been following this for some time, and I have found that most ADHD individuals have subtle impairments of balance and coordination- which we have had for years, so we are largely unaware of them. However it is possible to show them on examination, along with other subtle signs like poor coordination of eye movements.

I personally had an experience recently when on a 3 day boat trip up the Yangtze river in China- where I got very mild motion sickness, and my working memory went to hell- and I got very disorganised, and even a couple of double doses of my stimulant made no difference.

However, last week I came across this paper:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215422/

Disrupted functional connectivity of the default mode network due to acute vestibular deficit

Now while this particular paper focusses on a short term problem (vestibular neuronitis) the proposed mechanisms will apply just as much to the subtle vestibulo- cerebellar problems seen in ADHD:

[quote]
We demonstrate an initially disturbed connectedness of the DMN after vestibular neuritis. We hypothesize that the disturbed connectivity between the default mode network and particular parts of the task-positive network might be related to a sustained utilization of processing capacity by diverging sensory information. [quote]
So this is describing an apparent deficit in working memory caused by inefficient processing of incoming sensory data. We need to remember that our brains receive multiple streams of sensory data , and fuse them together to produce our perception of the world, and that in that act, they discard most of the incoming input from conscious awareness.

If that system breaks down one consequence is that our brains struggle to know which information to discard.

The nett consequence is not a deficiency of working memory, it is a deficiency of unconscious processing of information, leading to "Too Much Information Syndrome".

I find that a promising analysis as it gets me away from the idea that I am missing in some abstract property called working memory.So- what to do about it?
I note that Dr John Ratey, a professor of psychiatry who has ADHD and has worked in the areas of ADHD and exercise as a treatment for ADHD emphasises the importance of exercise and particularly stresses exercises that are heavy on fine coordination- such as martial arts.

We do know that the kinds of exercises that demand high coordination will especially involve neural loops that go through the cerebellum, and that it now seems that regrowth can occur in the cerebellum through this sort of exercise.

The question is really "What sorts of exercise count most"?

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Old 10-01-17, 11:42 PM
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Re: Working Memory

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Originally Posted by Kunga Dorji View Post
If there is something causing a stress response (and it need not be an interpersonal problem) the stress response could be causing the difficulty listening (it is hard to listen when your body is telling you to run away.
That would cause a deficit of working memory.
I find it interesting however that stimulants, let's say caffeine in this instance, are going to help with things like working memory and more efficient sensory processing, attending to the task at hand, and so on. I'm talking about the cortisol-release, the "fight or flight" mechanism, of these activating drugs.

So artificially producing the stress response, the same thing that you imply should be avoided, is the very same thing that helps.

It does for me, anyway, I find caffeine to be invaluable (and highly addictive, but it is what it is).

A bit tangential, but I thought I'd write this down anyway.
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