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  #1  
Old 05-08-06, 09:59 AM
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A clean slate and straight talk.

ADD... ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER. I can't think of a worse name for what we have. Holloway refers to it as an "Interest based central nervous system" and that is a FAR better description.

Doctors insist on describing ADD itself as a "Disorder" inspite of mounting evidence that nothing is, in fact, broken about us. Clearly we have great functional difficulties, but it's not because we're broken anymore than a fish out of water is broken. It's because we tend to occupy one side of the curve of "normal" human nuerological variation. Society, as we know it, is an artificial construct. Based primarily on evolving culture. Culture changes far more rapidly than biology can hope to keep up with. It does tend, at least to a degree, to mirror biological possibilities but you might think of it as democratic. What works culturally for most may not work for all. Modern society has been around in roughly it's present form for about six thousand years. It's completely artificial and arbitrary in nature. What I'm getting at here, is that modern society is effectively an alien environment for humans. We started as hunter gatherers in small groups. Whether you believe we were created that way, or evolved that way is immaterial. Our instincts, emotional responses, and ways of looking at things are all optimized for an environment that no longer even exists. Most of humanity has one degree or another of difficulty with this. Such things as xenophobia (the root of modern racism, and general "us" vs "Them" mentalities), Jealousy, and even self righteousness are all highly destructive in this environment and have no real purpose enhancing our survival here. In the ancestral environment they were functional. If "normal" people have difficulties with this arbitrary construct we call society, so much the worse for us. It's even harder on those it isn't even moderately optimized for. Hence we look broken, when we aren't.

Growing up in an environment geared to people who think and function in fundamentally different ways is a recipe for misunderstanding, mistreatment, and abysmally low self esteem. Many of us end up thinking of ourselves as incompetent, incapable of managing without help and stupid. This is, in fact, where the nastiest part of of ADD really is. Rising to a challenge even with the right tools and real hope of change is exceedingly difficult when you literally don't know how to succeed. Who wants to be constantly reminded they are a loser, after all?

My point here, of course, is that we aren't losers. When I say we are different NOT broken I am not being politically correct. I'm being quite literal. For all the things we are bad at there are just as many we excell at. Often these qualities are underappreciated, or unnoticed amidst our failures at things "EVERYONE IS GOOD AT". If the majority of the population were ADD and only a small portion were what we now think of as "Normal" (Normal, for the record, is a pretty subjective term) they would likely be medically recognized as having a disorder, even though you know as well as I do there is nothing pathological at all about their "Condition". They would simply be a poor fit in a society that catered to people llike us, just as we are a poor fit in this society.

All the medication, therapy, and other remedies in the world can't help any of us until we learn for ourselves as individuals that we really aren't broken, that there really is a place for us out there, that we really aren't worthless. Medicating the ADD won't fix the baggage folks. It can help us fix ourselves though.

I am glad to be associated with everyone here. All of you are courageous in my eyes. Why? Because instead of giving up and crawling into some hidey hole you are here, actively trying to "Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome". So, let's give ourselves some credit. PUHLEEZE!!!!! :-)

Also, as nice as it is for us to have our own little community for support, etc. Keep in mind that most "Normal" people are A) not out to get us. B) niether better or worse than us and C) should be cut a little slack about not understanding because it's very difficult for someone who doesn't have ADD to conceptualize it. Just as it's very difficult for those who don't have anxiety disorders to know what they're like. Often it's more a question of ignorance than genuine malevolent intent. Knowing how difficult it is for folks without ADD to place themselves in our shoes can make it a lot easier not to take them too seriously when they hurt us. Telling them we have it isn't always an option, so this is a small comfort to have (I mean primarily, employers, by this). As for loved ones, most are willing to at least talk to a doctor or counselor and learn about it. If they are doing that, then they are trying. Try not to take their frustration personally. Involving them in the "brainstorming" process for constructive solutions can be a big help. They see you making real effort, they are involved in a way that let's them know they can do something to help and when you find things that really work they can see there really is more to ADD than an "Excuse".

Sometimes no matter how hard you try, how noble your quest, or how right you are, the Dragon wins. By this I mean, we can't always save the life we have now. Divorce is common, as is job loss. Even when we are doing the right things to move forward. HOWEVER, some matches are just plain bad matches. Whether it be a job or a spouse. We have to know ourselves folks. We have to know what we want, where we fit, and what our limitations and gifts are. When we know these things we can work towards putting ourselves there. Where we are now may not be where we need to be. Lord knows I'm not where I need to be yet. I'm gonna get there though. So, don't kick yourself over what you can't control. Work on what you can. Have faith in yourself. Be prepared to be suprised by what you find. :-) Pleasantly suprised.

Okay I'm done now.
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Old 05-08-06, 10:23 AM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

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Great to see you back E-boy ... "tabula rasa II" (-This time it's personal-) ... :-)
Remember 'Amen' ... Amen to that ... :-) ...

And that about sums it up ( i.e. that mind is 'personal') ... we each have our own mind, an internal representation of our own reality, which is our everything.

ADD, xenophobia, Lord, jealousy, normality, functionality and purpose ... all words stolen from your text above, can be explained with a model for mind.
Perhaps even the one that I have in mind.

The mind is all that matters.
We are at a point in the history of development of man, where we can solve mind.
The solution isn't mysterious, and is, in fact simple ...

The consequences though ...

ADD,
xenophobia,
Lord,
jealousy,
normality,
functionality
and purpose

-is understood
-collapses
-is seen for what it represents
-is placed firmly within the box of legacy 'gifts' offered by our evolution
-gains a definition which satisfies
-is understood
-is gleaned

... all respectively :-)

SB.

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Old 05-08-06, 11:35 AM
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Quote:

Many of us end up thinking of ourselves as incompetent, incapable of managing without help and stupid.
What an intuitive statement… I just posted in another thread people do not have a clue to what I believe when it comes to the ADD=out look except I refuse to lay down and play disordered.

Your statement is why I refuse to do so… I have done my “time” in social prison! I have stated this before


Quote:
This is, in fact, where the nastiest part of ADD really is
I was labeled retarded but few realize how many years of productivity that took away from me. ADD didn’t hinder me nearly as much as the statements made by educational “experts”! NOW the emergence behind my sever doubts in “experts”, and my adamant opposition to their categorizations!


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Medicating the ADD won't fix the baggage folks.
Nope but finding out what your “packing” goes a long way to insight…..years of missed insight and knowledge!



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It can help us fix ourselves though.
We can fit into their society and keep “our abilities”! If ya work it just right you can be ADD or non-ADD like depending on mood situations ect… normal people can’t do that!

Although to medicate or not to medicate personal decision I respect!


Quote:
"Normal" people are A) not out to get us. B) neither better or worse than us and C) should be cut a little slack about not understanding because it's very difficult for someone who doesn't have ADD to conceptualize it.
Different…but different aint always wrong, incorrect or inferior! Normal folks have fewer pharmacy bills!


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Just as it's very difficult for those who don't have anxiety disorders to know what they're like.
Correct! I have had a few anxiety issues which I did not like I bet a life time of this could really suck severely!


Quote:
Often it's more a question of ignorance than genuine malevolent intent.
Is the ignorance willful?

Besides understanding isn’t a requirement for decent treatment period!


Quote:
Knowing how difficult it is for folks without ADD to place themselves in our shoes can make it a lot easier not to take them too seriously when they hurt us.
My personal boundaries are just that boundaries for my person I will divert to avoid, adjust, notify ,reason negotiate, warn, then go straight off the deep end, with out personal prejustice! Sorry I am “programmed” to eat only some much feces!


Quote:
We have to know ourselves folks. We have to know what we want, where we fit, and what our limitations and gifts are. When we know these things we can work towards putting ourselves there.
Haven’t said it better my self but I have said this often. .educate your self about how ADD affects you as a person!


Quote:
So, don't kick yourself over what you can't control. Work on what you can. Have faith in yourself. Be prepared to be surprised by what you find. :-) Pleasantly surprised.
AMEN!!!! My presence here was one of the steps in my journey! It was here among all these really smart folks, I discovered I had a brain! Honestly I didn’t realize this until recently…… in the past two years (to the month) Although I have known sense 1993 I had ADHD!


Nice post!!!!
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  #4  
Old 05-08-06, 12:42 PM
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On the right dose of the right med (providing there is one out there that works for you) doesn't have to be a trade off of losing your good stuff to gain the ability to fit in.

In fact, I urge those who have real issues with medication results to try all available meds before you resign yourself to being "Zombified" as a necessary evil.

Sometimes things as simple as diet and exercise do the job nicely, and there are a variety of other means of dealing with symptomology that work quite well for many people without medication.

The Navy's lack of flexibility in how they do business necessitates meds for me. However, I've been fortunate in that they do provide substantial improvement without me giving up being me. My plan for when I get to the place I need to be is to be off meds. When I'm where I belong, using my gifts, I won't need to be something I'm not. I'm willing to accept that socially, some people won't like me for who I am. That's a universal truth anyway, so I might as well be liked and disliked for who and what I am.

Also, there are those out there who are disingenuous, willfully ignorant, and generally hateful. I have no use for them, but I make a distinction between honest misunderstanding (even when it hurts) and cruelty that often crops up from some people when they feel they can get away with it. Yes they make me angry, but oddly enough I pity them. How rotten does your life have to be before you take joy in inflicting suffering on others? I don't let the pity stop me from making them look stupid when they publically spout nonsense about ADD. Well, in fairness they make themselves look stupid, I just take a little enjoyment out of providing verifiable facts in counterpoint to their non-sense. I mean, when you have to depend on scientology to back up your argument the only ones who'll take you seriously are scientologists... Cheers Tom Cruise!
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Old 05-08-06, 07:12 PM
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On the right dose of the right med (providing there is one out there that works for you) doesn't have to be a trade off of losing your good stuff to gain the ability to fit in.
Oh I have been on Adderall for a long time, ten years! There are times I feel the meds are “necessary” other times optional (or forgotten) and then there are the “I want to be hyper active ADD”! I have a wide range of medication effectiveness options and after ten years “I know how to use them”!

Between dabbling in medical science and party animal when it comes to chemicals I know myself intimately!



Quote:
The Navy's lack of flexibility in how they do business necessitates meds for me
You must have already been in the Navy before you began taking medications because they sure won’t let some one in if they are already on medications!



Quote:
However, I've been fortunate in that they do provide substantial improvement without me giving up being me
I don’t give up being me either. .but I can behave as if I do not have ADD with the help of medication. I did not mean to imply I gave up being me. My children are grown I can be a lot more flexible with my environment and my life! Besides I am smart enough to avoid sit down shut up jobs!



Quote:
Also, there are those out there who are disingenuous, willfully ignorant, and generally hateful. I have no use for them, but I make a distinction between honest misunderstanding (even when it hurts)
Ditto…… I have no use for the hateful either! I generally try to avoid unproductive conflict but some people insist on not allowing me to do so… well for a while any way…..one the advantages that come with being hyperactive ADD…. Is that if I want some one to leave me alone I can make it where they want to leave me alone very rapidly! I am not big and bad either I am a fairly small female. I am just “creative” and imaginative in more ways than several, when necessary!



Quote:
How rotten does your life have to be before you take joy in inflicting suffering on others?
Pretty bloody rotten, and I too came to this conclusion many years ago! This above sentiment was how I was able to finally let go and forgive some one who had hurt me very badly when I was a teen! I concluded he had to hurt really bad to do such ugly things to me! Thus ending the negative influence of resentment and loathing…… I could finally let him go!

It is way cool that you should mention this....


Quote:
Well, in fairness they make themselves look stupid, I just take a little enjoyment out of providing verifiable facts in counterpoint to their non-sense.
The few times I have run into trouble I will let them go on a bit while I generate some eeenergy and my mind begins churning out all these approaches … as I co-worker described it right before I stood up to another co=worker who tend to be more than a tad emotionally over baring “Tammy I knew when I heard you take that deep breath you were going to rip her argument to shreds!



Quote:
I mean, when you have to depend on scientology to back up your argument the only ones who'll take you seriously are scientologists... Cheers Tom Cruise!
OMG NOT the TC word!!! Scuro can smell his and Dr. Breggins name a mile away… they are his “favorite punching bags”!

Admittedly they are idiots especially Tom boy! I have always been of the opinion my ADD doctor doesn’t waste my time trying to act I would prefer actors would not waste my time trying to be doctors! Some doctors should waste their time trying to be doctors!


You are pretty much is tune with my ADDitude!


Way cool… I can see you have been a member a while looks like you might have taken a bit of a break….. glad you decided to return! We need all the positive “chi” we can get. Some folks around here really have a rough time with the ADD and life thing. I know it can be hard and I hate to see people beat them selves up, put them selves down, and hate a portion of who they are…. Heck that is what all those jerks out there are for (sort of sad smile) I did that inferior me thing for so long I know what it can do to your soul….. I feel sad that things are so hard for other members!
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Old 05-09-06, 10:51 AM
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They are still very much hard for me too Tammy. It hurts to meet people you really like and watch as they slowly come to reject your differences. I often, these days, try to discourage folks getting to close by just being overly candid about who and what I am. TMI, generally gets the job done and I avoid later disappointments. Healthy? I think not. :-) I'm working on it though.
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Old 05-09-06, 11:00 AM
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I do the same thing Dan -
"Hi! *VOMIT* There's all my issues, still like me?"
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Old 05-09-06, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chameleon
I do the same thing Dan -
"Hi! *VOMIT* There's all my issues, still like me?"
HAHAHA, had to keep from laughing out loud when I read this. I really have to keep from doing the same thing. Partly because I am relatively newly dx'd and I want to tell everyone.

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Old 05-09-06, 04:03 PM
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Ho ... in the good 'ole days TC was Top Cat ... ... ...

'the morally defensible' Top Cat,
who lived on proletarian Street
and had big feet ...
and lived out of a dustbin on half-eaten sweets

...Hmmm... I may have made a number of errors recalling the exact lyrics to the theme tune ... but all things considered, will somebody please tell me 'why' ... he has such beliefs?
Or more broadly why anyone with 'everything', and a lifetime understanding society's morality (the currency of film) ... could reconcile all of that against the views of scientology?

Why doesn't he make a film about scientology?
Even a kinda' metaphorical 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' style of film.
And why doesn't he begin to believe that the alien life forms are not real, after never having seen them?
Or perhaps they're a metaphor.
And do all of the other 'cults' bear some similarity to scientology?
But if we were to locate this similarity, where should we look ... the mind perhaps?

We can treat the non-cartoon and yet comic TC as a football, and kick the airin and out of his bladder ... but after a while that becomes kinda' boring ... and we're overtaken kinda' with a need to know why.
Aren't we?

He must believe that he knows something that we don't.
And whatever that is *must* be hugolargimundo, because he lives in our world, and has some big names who sit alongside him (Travolta,Alley,Hayes) ... and yet despite all of this, their shared reality, frequent interviews and meetings with non-scientologists ...and well pretty much everything really ... all of these experiences do not appear to serve to overturn their views on scientology.

What could be so powerful? ...to keep these guys from seeing that scientology is fluff?

We're going to need something real big, fundamental, powerful ... for sure.
Some aspect of mind.

Come on guys, help me out ...
...what do they see which we do not?
...what is their goal in forming part of an exclusive group, with exclusivity seemingly built into its structure?
...what might break either TC (and his feline sick fellow fops) association with scientology (or, to be fair to either side, our antagonism against scientology)?

I believe the answer lies in the mechanism which is described, by the nomenclature authority on this subject ... as the 'social impulse'.

The social impulse is a fundamental drive in man, and represents the current incarnation of whatever mechanism supported the first nucleotide (DNA) molecule to replicate.
The social impulse then is derivative from our most fundamental ancestral origin, bears the same 'goals' though to anthropomorpholog'ize is a mistake ... and is simply our experiential perspective of the following train (viewed from an evolutionary pespective) ...

Stressing that my expression is taking on an anthropomorphological pespective in order to assist in idea ingestion and digestion ... words kinda' like 'motivation', 'drive' ... in their usual context ... *fail* here.

Drive for DNA to divide seen through our eyes (incorrectly) as the drive for DNA to survive, replicate,... translated with evolution into survival of species ... unfortunately concomitantly with destruction of competing species (evolutionarily understood as competition for limited resources) ... translated into formation of group, social group, society ... ... ...

To be clear, what could be more powerful than the 'drive' which pushed the first molecule to replicate, fast forwarding a 'coupla''million :-) years ... into present day man ... driven by the same forces, albeit in different form, since we are man and not a free floating chain of Gs, As, Ts and Cs ... and we can express what we are feeling, where what we're feeling is this ... of course, our legacy ... and of course the big guacamole of drives ... looking at the development of wo/man, through wo/mans' eyes.

The social impulse is that important.
The social impulse drives the formation of social groups.
The social impulse can be seen in the animal kingdom.
The social impulse serves a purpose which is also served by alternative approaches ... rendering the form of social impulse which pushes TC into scientology, as readily understandable ... and in this model, as a behaviour which is a legacy of our evolution, no longer required, and I'd hope ... when TC reads these words ... also ... his passage to freedom.

Rum Tommy run ... and Hayes, dude, I miss yer'chocolate salty balls in mi'ears ... man ... yowzer!!!

SB.
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