Dopamine and Effort

[TygerSan]

I just came across this press release from May. Seems interesting, and bears mentioning (though my disclaimer is I haven't had time to read the original research yet. I trust the source, though).

http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=news_050112

Essentially, dopamine levels can correlate with amount of effort, but the direction of that correlation can change based on where in the brain you are. So high levels of dopamine don't always correspond to high levels of motivation.

[JOHNCG]

Originally Posted by TygerSan

I just came across this press release from May. Seems interesting, and bears mentioning (though my disclaimer is I haven't had time to read the original research yet. I trust the source, though).

http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=news_050112

Essentially, dopamine levels can correlate with amount of effort, but the direction of that correlation can change based on where in the brain you are. So high levels of dopamine don't always correspond to high levels of motivation.

That partly depends, I think, on what you mean by "motivation". In neuropsychology "motivation" refers (strictly speaking) to reward-based processes mediated by what are believed to be primarily dopaminergic tracts, like the mesolimbic tract and the mesocortical tract?? Alternatively, if you mean motivation in the sense of sustained effort, that can mediated, for example, by Executive Functions like working memory (THAT ARE responsible for cognitive control), some of which - the later, for instance - are believed to be associated with the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC) and to be mainly noradrenergic as opposed to dopaminergic (?)

[TygerSan]

I *believe* (and this is just a conjecture based on the blurb that I read) that they are talking specifically about effort-based processing, i.e. the amount of effort an individual is likely/able to put forth in order to achieve a desired outcome.

In this case, it was some sort of reward processing task that is not explained as well as it could be, but in which (and I quote from the press release) "Participants got to decide how hard they were willing to work depending on the odds of a payout and the amount of money they could win. Some accepted harder challenges for more money even against long odds, whereas less motivated subjects would forgo an attempt if it cost them too much effort".

Once the individuals had finished the task they were scanned using PET to determine basal levels of dopamine in various brain regions. The interesting result was that individuals who were less likely to sustain effort during the task had higher levels of dopamine in the insula, which is not a brain region that is often looked at in relationship to such processing.

The caveat is that the imaging of dopamine occurred after the individuals had finished the task. That means that the researchers don't know what's going on with dopamine during the task necessarily, just that individuals who had higher levels of dopamine in the insula to begin with did more poorly on the task.

[Peripheral]

See your doctor about starting or stopping your medications,'

Some medications are not suppose to be stopped cold turkey.

I am not a professional.



I have been doing an experiment.

If I am siting reading and I can't read.

I feel a lull.

If I get up and walk around ,

go for a walk outside,

then try and focus,

I got a little more focus.


This focus is not as intense as with medication,

but it is better,

than if I don't take a walk.

Even my depression gets just a little bit better.


But if I decide to walk like 8 km (5 miles)

and I come home and try to read,

I have even less focus.


Since I stopped working labor,

I have become more clumsy.

But my executive skills are all around better.




Macdonald's type food makes things the worst.

Walking this off also helps a bit.


Dopamine and movement?


Side Note: Emotionally I make much better decisions medicated with walks.


There is an "effort switch" to all these decisions.

That I need to turn on.

Some tasks like reading are easier to turn on medicated,

but some tasks like cleaning the house are easier to turn on unmedicated.

For me.

.



.

[TygerSan]

Geronimoo,

I had huge problems with that "motivation" switch on Adderall. It was a decent medication for me in many ways, but it gave me laser-like focus, and *not* necessarily laser focus on things that I wanted to pay attention to.

I was a great computer programmer, better than I ever could have imagined, on Adderall. But I could also spend 7 hours playing the same flash game compulsively and not realize I was doing so.

Having focus is wonderful. Being able to direct the focus to those tasks you need to complete is a different story all together.

[Peripheral]

Originally Posted by TygerSan

Geronimoo,

I had huge problems with that "motivation" switch on Adderall. It was a decent medication for me in many ways, but it gave me laser-like focus, and *not* necessarily laser focus on things that I wanted to pay attention to.

I was a great computer programmer, better than I ever could have imagined, on Adderall. But I could also spend 7 hours playing the same flash game compulsively and not realize I was doing so.

Having focus is wonderful. Being able to direct the focus to those tasks you need to complete is a different story all together.

TygerSan,

I know what you mean,

Ritalin works very well for me.



The last few months I have been trying more mg's of ritalin,

and I am reading and writing (focusing) better than ever before on those subjects.

But I find I am falling behind on other subjects in my life.

Even exercise.

So went back to my old amount of mg's.

I did notice that when I forget my medication,

I start cleaning and doing more work around the house.

(and less "executive type" stuff)


It seems that overall sometimes less is more.

And more is less?

The ADHD paradoxes?


Thanks for the thread.

[Amtram]

OTOH, there have also been studies (cited here in other threads, I believe, but I don't have the links in front of me) that excessive dopamine processing can also lead to reduced motivation. I don't think it's a simple "more is better" neurochemical.

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by Amtram

OTOH, there have also been studies (cited here in other threads, I believe, but I don't have the links in front of me) that excessive dopamine processing can also lead to reduced motivation. I don't think it's a simple "more is better" neurochemical.

If you're talking about this link: http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=news_050112
I still had the tab open in my browser and have yet to read it. LOL

[Amtram]

Very funny, Drewbacca. . .I was thinking of a different one. . .There are no emoticons here for whupping you in the head!