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Old 10-10-08, 07:48 PM
Dizfriz Dizfriz is offline
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Time sense in ADHD children

ADHD AND TIME SENSE IN CHILDREN

This is my version of something I picked up from a Russell Barkley workshop a number of years ago. It has been quite useful in helping parents understand some age appropriate behaviors and why their child does some of the things he or she does.

The ages and abilities are to be considered as "Rules of Thumb". There is a good bit of variation among individuals but most will fall somewhere in these general categories.


TIME SENSE IN CHILDREN

Some theory first: The ability to sense and use time is a developmental issue. As our brain grows we begin to see farther into the future, foresight if you would. Adults sometimes plan decades into the future, the four year old none. The frontal part of the brain that pretty much controls this continues to develop to around age thirty. You can see then that kids and teenagers are not as good at this as their parents. If you are over thirty, think about what you can do now that you couldn't do when you were twenty-brain development. If you are under thirty be aware that you will likely get better at it in the coming years.

Now on to how this effects kids in general.

A normal three or four year old child lives pretty much in the moment, in the "now". He reacts to what is in front in him and the moment is forever. That is why when young children are hurt, they cry so fully and piteously. To them the pain in going to go on forever. This also holds true for being happy which is a much more enjoyable experience for the parents. The world is going to be what it is now forever. There is no future, only now. As Dennis the Menace said in one wonderful cartoon "Isn't it always now?".

When children get to around age six or so they can usually see out somewhere around twelve to sixteen hours in the future. That is why, no matter when he was told, he will tell you the night before "Oh by the way, I need cupcakes in the morning for school."-twelve to sixteen hours.

The young adolescent (twelve, thirteen, fourteen) is somewhere around three days. Your kid can get a book report assignment and while you nag, remind, fuss, complain, and warn; about three days before it is due, he will begin to think about needing to do the report. Trying to get him to think about it much earlier is probably an exercise in futility. You can try to get him to see further ahead but don't expect a lot of success. Note that I said think about it not do it. Starting to read the book the night before is not particular unusual especially with ADHD kids. It is however almost guaranteed to drive parents into a state of abject frustration.

I estimate that college freshman, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, to be about a week to ten days which explains cram sessions, all nighters etc-Time Sense.

Those who go back to school later in life tend to do spread sheets detailing what they need to be doing at any given moment and often cannot understand why their kids could not do this. Now you know why.

Now on to how this effects ADHD kids.

Event Horizon-This is important for understanding how time effects those with ADHD

When an event comes into our perceptual field (event horizon) we began to think about and perhaps begin to make preparations for handling it.

An example: We have a visual event horizon in which threats (large nasty looking big dog) may be out there but until it can cross our visual event horizon, we will do nothing in anticipation for that event. When it does cross it is "Good grief, look at that really big dog running at me!" and began to look for steps to handle it.

Now some people have a deficit in seeing at a distance (near sightedness or Myopia). They will not react to something until it gets much nearer than someone with normal vision. They wait until that very big nasty looking dog is right on them before they start to react. This is due it coming into their visual field and therefore their event horizon, only when very close.

There is also a temporal event horizon in which the person will began to react to an event in time where it reaches a point where the event comes into their temporal awareness field. Before that one might be vaguely aware of its existence but it is not close enough in time to cause a response.

Child normally cannot see far ahead in the framework of time, see that this event is coming and something needs to be done. They do not have "foresight". What is one of the descriptions of kids? "Children don't show much foresight".

Now, ADHD can really disrupt the time sense in a significant way. It can cause a very real and sometimes major defect in the ability to sense time but but more importantly in the ability to use time. What you see is, if you would, "Temporal Myopia": time nearsightedness-a deficit in seeing into the future and responding to upcoming events. These individuals will not react until the event is very close in time often moving into action only when the event has arrived. This helps explain why many adult ADHD'ers are always doing things at the last moment, why always late, why always in a rush. Their lives may bounce from crisis to crises due to the lack of seeing into the future (foresight) and heading off problems. They may tend to react to events only as they arrive-recipe for chaos.

Parents ask their kids "Couldn't you see that coming?" and the answer is probably not. I think the 30% rule (read here) probably applies. These kids use time much like someone about 30% younger. In other words a ten year old probably has the foresight of someone around seven. Kids are not real good at foresight anyway and ADHD can make it much worse.

Another aspect of a lack of time awareness: An ADHD child will be doing his homework and an hour has gone past and nothing much was done. The parent gets upset.

What often happens is that the kid does not have anything resembling an accurate sense of time passage. As far as he is concerned only a short amount of time has passed. This is not willful but a function of ADHD. They have little internal time sense. The trick is to "Make Time Visible". Put a clock on the desk or wherever the homework is done, use alarms to mark time points. At random intervals ask the kid what he is doing right now, focusing or something else.


Some more ideas.

Be aware of where the kid is and not where you would like him to be. Developmentally appropriate expectations is the key.

Treat the kid like someone younger. In the case of a twelve year old kid with a book report. Have him read a short section a day, make notes and write a short paragraph or so on the content. When the time comes near he then can write the report from his notes. This is something you might do for a non ADHD eight year old.

Use visual reminders. Work out a schedule with him and post it on a calender and have him initial it each day.

Have small treats when he successfully completes a particular part of an assignment.

These are just examples. You have to be creative and change often.
___________________________________

Technical point so someone won't correct me: I used the term "Event Horizon" to mean the point where we become aware of an event to a degree where we begin preparation for it in some way. I am aware of other definitions.

Also note that the deficits of ADHD are not consistent but will vary with individuals. Some will not show this but many do and with for those, the problem can be severe.

I use male pronouns as a writing convenience. This applies equally to girls.

Be aware that I am a terrible proofreader. Please be kind and overlook any grammatical or spelling errors.

Dizfriz
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Old 10-10-08, 08:17 PM
mctavish23 mctavish23 is offline
 

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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

I'd thank you twice, if I could

(or maybe I just did...lol)

Great subject matter

Truly horrific impairment

"Time blindness" hurts me personally (along with underproductivity) more than anything else.

The most important point I can make about this excellent thread subject is for parents to use this as a true wake up call to learn more about the intrinsic relationship between ADHD & the Executive Functions

I can't stress that enough

"Time blindness" means that ADHD will literally destroy the ability to track time;including future goal directed planning

THAT's why your child will NEVER know when something is due until it's either too late or, most often, remembers it the night before

The KEY points are these:

If I hit you with a spitball, I'm happy because I meant to throw it (to be purposely disruptive).

-mctavish23

BUT

If I can't get my daily work done in class in a timely manner

OR

I don't make a deadline on time

OR

I'm not prepared for class

OR

I do my work and either lose it or forget to hand it in


Those are ALL (100%) due to ADHD related Excutive Function impairments ( i.e., Executive Dysfunction)

In other words, they are NOT "choices," they're due to "invisible " brain mechanisms (EF's)

That's why ADHD is a "Reason and Not an Excuse."

There's much more to this but this is a great start.


Thanks again

tc

mctavish23

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Old 10-10-08, 09:59 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

Thank you for posting that!!!

I've been wondering about the same issues my son is having and you have somewhat confirmed some of my thoughts I had (but had not seen or heard anyone explain it to me before).

My 15 yr old has posted up a large desk calendar on the wall to remind him of important dates he doesn't want to forget and has used post-its to move medium prioritized things around to adjust. It doesn't work smoothly for him yet, but I'm glad he's taking the initiative.

It has been on my mind for a while about how he takes care of issues after the fire started.
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Old 10-10-08, 10:05 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

I used to complain about being "stuck in the now" and being a "prisoner of the moment", then someone pointed out to me that a lot of people wish they could "live for the moment"... Well okay.. I do that all the time.....LOL as if I had a choice...

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Old 10-10-08, 11:20 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

My son definitely has issues with time. He just isn't able to grasp the concept. It's almost as though he's at the same stage of development as my near 5 yo when it comes to determining time i.e. days, weeks, months, etc - but has almost bizarre recollection of things that happened when he was 3!!!
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Old 10-11-08, 01:33 AM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

It could explain why my son had a fixation of clocks. It was probably the only way he could make sense of the day. I don't find he's as bad as he use to. He's 8 now.. and funny enough, he's the one that's always reminding ME of upcoming events

ie: "mom, don't forget goodie day tomorrow." "mom, don't forget to mail the cards for so-and-so's birthday". I'm thinking my deficit has helped him be more conscientious of his.

thanks for the post. i did read that about the 30% rule and have applied it as well - not with just my son but with my students as well. i have 2 in the class that are severe ADD. a visual clock has helped one .. but the other, the bugger, can't keep his hands off it! LOL defeats the purpose of "staying on task"
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Old 10-11-08, 03:52 AM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

AMEN!! This all fits my son to a tee. It is so good too see a group with some people that truly know.

First time I have heard of the 30% rule. I'll have to share that with my wife and his teacher. His teacher, mainly. She is not grasping what ADHD truly is.
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Old 10-11-08, 04:11 AM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

Canīt the brain develop after 30?

I am still stuck in the time zone of a three year old:-(

These descriptions fit me to a tee.

I try to compensate by reading all that litterature, knowing everything about it, Russel Barkley and all the others.

"He reacts to what is in front of him and the moment is forever."

Yes!!

"There is no future only now."

Yes!!

Now here comes the strange thing.

Since I started medication last year, I have noticed that sometimes, unfortunately not very often, since my medication is not working very well for me, and I am still looking for something else, my time horizon almost litterally lits up. I get these amazing aha moments wherre I can "see" the future, get a sense of time. Immediately plans for tomorrow, ideas about how to do it etc start running in my head. The sad thing is that the effect will only last for like a couple of hours, and when it is gone, I am left in the misty mumble jumble land again.

I still feel that this is important because

1. Now I know or have some sense of feeling of what people are thinking when they say things like: Whatīs your plan for tomorrow. Where do you want to be in five years?
When I answer these questions it is always with a very strange feeling in my stomach, like dizziness or seasickness, because my brain is not really getting the concept, I am just answering because I know I have to answer, and I feel so strongly in these moments that something is wrong.

2. I know the difference. Even if I canīt think like that, I can reflect and say to myself that the reason you are feeling so confused, upset, whatever, is that your brain is reacting as if there was no future. Isnīt it amazing that I am able to talk to myself like that when the time sense is still not there?

3. Since I did have those moments, it cannot be purely developmental. It must be chemical for a large part. So it means if I can turn on the curcuits that are inhibited or sleeping at the moment, I will have a chance to develop time thinking. Needless to say I am trying to do that.
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Old 10-13-08, 12:33 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

Man oh man, this is great stuff. My DH can only see my oldest DS as L-A-Z-Y (ugh!) - he's quiet, moody and huffs & puffs about anything requiring effort. And believe me, I've tried diligently educating him on the 30% rule. The problem is my youngest DS is ADD and takes initiative, likes to help and gets things done right away (it's his personality). He's primarily hyper but, not inattentive - so the comparisons fly in the face of the #1 parenting rule: don't compare your kids. We argue about this constantly (alone) and it's gotten to the point that I've thrown out there "maybe you should talk to a professional about how you feel" - but it gets disregarded with I'm being a protective mama bear. Lack of sense of time in my 13yo DS is that thorn in his side too. Sorry to combine the issues.

Dizfriz- thanks for the wisdom.
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Old 10-13-08, 01:25 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

BillyDeal

I am trying to work on a post on motivation and discipline with ADHD kids and this may take a while but perhaps I can give you quickly a couple of ideas that may be of help.

A good way of thinking about ADHD is that it is a deficit in self regulation/self control. In other words they cannot self motivate or self regulate well (often not much at all). Not wanting to do something that has no immediate payoff is a characteristic of these kids. If you expect your son to do something just because he was told, it is not likely to happen. To a good extent this is a function of the disorder.

Now if he has some consequences to hang behavior regulation on then he is much more likely to take and do. By consequence, I do not mean punitive but something like this: On routine jobs if he doesn't have it done by an acceptable time then he gets another job also and no privileges until both are finished. No TV, computer/video games, etc. Tell him to take all the time he wants because it is his decision to miss the privileges, not yours. Put the responsibility back on him. Do not warn (much), nag, fuss, complain, or get angry. He decided not to do the jobs, he decided the consequences. His problem.

At times have a positive pay off. This is not a bribe or reward for doing the job. It is in recognition that it was hard for him to self motivate. It is not promised before hand. Think of it as a "tip" rewarded for attitude and good work.

There is a lot more involved but this may give you some ideas.


Keep in mind what I posted above:

As far as dad goes, continue to help him focus on where the kid is and not where he would like him to be. Developmentally appropriate expectations is the key. I have never found a good way to deal with parents who feel their experiences and feelings are somehow universal imperatives. Good luck and don't quit trying though. Sometimes the message gets through.

Dizfriz

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Old 10-13-08, 01:27 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

Girls have ADHD as well you know.
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Old 10-13-08, 02:10 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarey View Post
Girls have ADHD as well you know.
I agree. I am not sure who you were responding to here. As far as myself, I made the note in my original post that "I use male pronouns as a writing convenience. This applies equally to girls."

In my response to Billydeel (sorry about misspelling your name), as I understood it, the discussion was about the DS (dear son).

Good point though. Never hurts to remind as girls so often get left behind in the ADHD shuffle.

Dizfriz
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Old 10-13-08, 06:11 PM
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Re: Time sense in ADHD children

Your information was SO well-timed as DS had to stay after today to make up work that he didn't finish as homework in a teacher requested session called IPOD. Instead of lecturing (which is painful for both of us and what I so badly wanted to do and normally do), I told him that his regular after school priveledges were on hold until he helps out around the house with a few things over and above his regular responsibilities. His response, "I guess I owe you that for slacking off on my end." Dang. I think I almost crashed the vehicle (kidding). Lecture lost. Hallelujah. Although, it might not always be such a breeze. And, he also expressed his feelings which are far more unusual. "You know mom, sometimes I just want a breather and I know I shouldn't have ignored my work. But, I was having a bad day."

Thanks for info that equips me.
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