ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > CO-EXISTING CONDITIONS > Other Co-Existing Conditions
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-03-17, 10:40 PM
peripatetic peripatetic is offline
 
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 21,410
Blog Entries: 12
Thanks: 33,032
Thanked 32,245 Times in 14,566 Posts
peripatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond repute
New research on intrusive thoughts

I struggle a lot with these for a couple of reasons/diagnoses and thought this article from the BBC about research done at Cambridge was interesting when I came across it earlier today: https://www.printfriendly.com/print?...rnyGu-ebiehada
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to peripatetic For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17), Fortune (11-04-17), Fuzzy12 (11-04-17), namazu (11-03-17)
  #2  
Old 11-04-17, 12:05 AM
Fortune's Avatar
Fortune Fortune is offline
I eat shades of red.
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Candy Kingdom, Land of Ooo
Posts: 12,330
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 11,877
Thanked 22,073 Times in 9,331 Posts
Fortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the link.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fortune For This Useful Post:
peripatetic (11-04-17)
  #3  
Old 11-04-17, 01:30 PM
Lunacie's Avatar
Lunacie Lunacie is online now
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south-central Kansas
Posts: 17,883
Thanks: 18,013
Thanked 23,965 Times in 11,088 Posts
Lunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

For me, "excessive worry or rumination" seems to be tied to anxiety.
Taking an antidepressant (Zoloft) was a big help.

Interesting to think there might be more than one reason for "excessive worry
or rumination."
.
__________________
ADD is not a problem of knowing what to do; it is a problem of doing what you know.
-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.


As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lunacie For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17), Fortune (11-04-17)
Sponsored Links
  #4  
Old 11-04-17, 07:23 PM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,415
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,553
Thanked 5,955 Times in 2,781 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

It goes well past clinically diagnosable anxiety- intrusive thoughts are the norm for most humans. I keep coming back to this talk, because it is so funny, and so true:

__________________
Science advances --one funeral at a time.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

both by:
Max Planck: Nobel Prize 1918 for inventing quantum physics.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-04-17, 07:31 PM
peripatetic peripatetic is offline
 
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 21,410
Blog Entries: 12
Thanks: 33,032
Thanked 32,245 Times in 14,566 Posts
peripatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

i'm not in the stability range to be watching videos...can you provide a synopsis?

i will say this though: it is not the case that the types of intrusive thoughts i have are the norm for most humans. they're more common than people admit, but either a lot more people would be medicated or suicidal because those are my choices as a result of them. or i'm just weak or something...who ******* knows.

sorry. i'm not having a great moment. too much esh on my mind and no more time.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to peripatetic For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17)
  #6  
Old 11-05-17, 06:38 AM
Fortune's Avatar
Fortune Fortune is offline
I eat shades of red.
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Candy Kingdom, Land of Ooo
Posts: 12,330
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 11,877
Thanked 22,073 Times in 9,331 Posts
Fortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond reputeFortune has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

I would say Peri that your intrusive thoughts are definitely not the norm for most humans (nor are mine, for that matter), and you are not weak. While it is possibly true that most people have intrusive thoughts, they're able to shut those thoughts down with relative ease, something you or I can't do.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Fortune For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17), Lunacie (11-05-17), peripatetic (11-05-17)
  #7  
Old 11-05-17, 10:03 PM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,415
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,553
Thanked 5,955 Times in 2,781 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
i'm not in the stability range to be watching videos...can you provide a synopsis?

i will say this though: it is not the case that the types of intrusive thoughts i have are the norm for most humans. they're more common than people admit, but either a lot more people would be medicated or suicidal because those are my choices as a result of them. or i'm just weak or something...who ******* knows.

sorry. i'm not having a great moment. too much esh on my mind and no more time.
As a very brief summary-
the most important thing is that intrusive thoughts of any kind are very common

The nature of the intrusive thoughts will be dictated by how we feel- because we store memories using their emotional key signature- which ranks them according to importance, threat, and context

Sometimes we feel one way for so long that we no longer really notice it

Ability to suppress unnecessary thoughts depends on the strength of your inhibitory controls (L frontal cortex)- which are decreased in ADHD, depression, intoxication or fatigue.

In reference to the paper you cited- I dont think there will be anything wrong with GABA production ability in the hippocampus. Its more likely that the frontal lobes are not pushing the hippocampus hard enough.


So for a longer discussion:

The video is talking about the reasons to take up meditating. He makes a couple of great points about the prevalence of intrusive thoughts of any kind ( and they can just as easily be positive ones as negative ones- or even a new piece of music that you can't get out of your head.).

ie "I can tell my little finger to lift and it lifts, but can I tell my mind to shut up and give me some peace for a while?" (paraphrase). He then goes on to talk about "what is normal" and likens the restless mind to a leaky tap- but everyone has the same problem but we don't know about it.

Now the core technique in the type of meditation really involves fixing on one object of meditation (the breath) and every time you get caught up in a thought, just noticing and going back to the original target. You don't fuss or beat yourself up over it- just keep coming back. After a while (and it seems that about 10-14 hours spread over 5 weeks is enough to produce measurable neuroplastic change) you have wired in the circuit well enough to be getting significant improvements.

Ive been pretty slack with my meditation lately, but I am certainly much better than before I ever tried it. Ive had a lot of serious losses, and had times of uncontrollable mind wandering.

What is not realised is that our attention is strongly directed by "bottom up factors" -- ie how we feel. If you feel the way you did when you last thought that recurring thought- then that will trigger the appropriate memory files in your hippocampus.- and off you go.

Feel bad--> think bad thoughts--> feel worse a feedback loop

Sometimes though we are so used to feeling a certain way that we no longer know that we are feeling it . Ive had a lot of trouble with persistent mid back pain (as my spine slowly straightens out), which has been getting much better fast lately.

Ive known that it was making a stress response (elevated heart rate, cold fingers) -and that stress response could cause break through of unhelpful thoughts any time I was tired. However I had a big breakthrough and got a huge drop in the response- and was amazed at how much better I felt- and how much calmer my mind was and that it is now throwing up less intrusive thoughts.

From what I know about the neurobiology of ADHD, having a state of permanent sympathetic dominance (overactive stress response not caused by an outside threat) is normal- because the frontal lobes DO NOT INHIBIT the midbrain. -- and we all know how important that central concept is.

Anyhow- in my case the stress response was being strongly re-enforced by the chronic pain.
__________________
Science advances --one funeral at a time.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

both by:
Max Planck: Nobel Prize 1918 for inventing quantum physics.

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kunga Dorji For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17), peripatetic (11-05-17)
  #8  
Old 11-05-17, 10:37 PM
peripatetic peripatetic is offline
 
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 21,410
Blog Entries: 12
Thanks: 33,032
Thanked 32,245 Times in 14,566 Posts
peripatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

i'm not so great at meditating, but i have found tai chi and qigong to be hugely helpful in the past.

my intrusive thoughts *do* respond well to medication. antipsychotics, specifically. i think part of me always has this lingering feeling that there must be something really wrong with me for my mind to conjure up these particular types of thoughts. they're so violent and always involve something vulnerable that i love. i'm gutted by them. so i think any research that points to a solution is welcome to me.

i think with medication, perhaps i should attempt meditation again. maybe it'd be more possible or have some other effect. xx

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets, added later to this post instead of as a new post
I was just thinking about your running. A lot of runners say they find their zen while running and its sort of like meditation for them. Do you experience this?

Last edited by namazu; 11-12-17 at 10:44 PM.. Reason: reverted edits to peri's original post, with sarah's reply added as a quote below
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-06-17, 10:09 AM
Lunacie's Avatar
Lunacie Lunacie is online now
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: south-central Kansas
Posts: 17,883
Thanks: 18,013
Thanked 23,965 Times in 11,088 Posts
Lunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond reputeLunacie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets
Quote:
Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
i'm not so great at meditating, but i have found tai chi and qigong to be hugely helpful in the past.
I was just thinking about your running. A lot of runners say they find their zen while running and its sort of like meditation for them. Do you experience this?
Meditation doesn't have to be sitting quietly counting your breaths.
There are several kinds of moving meditation, including walking and running.
I suspect that's why some people take very long showers.

For several years I found that mowing the yard could help me distance myself
from my thoughts and get some clarity. It was a very big yard and I didn't have
a riding mower.
__________________
ADD is not a problem of knowing what to do; it is a problem of doing what you know.
-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.


As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me

Last edited by namazu; 11-12-17 at 10:44 PM.. Reason: fixed quotes from above; no other edits.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lunacie For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17), peripatetic (11-06-17)
  #10  
Old 11-06-17, 10:42 AM
peripatetic peripatetic is offline
 
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 21,410
Blog Entries: 12
Thanks: 33,032
Thanked 32,245 Times in 14,566 Posts
peripatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond reputeperipatetic has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

I think sarah accidentally edited my post instead of quoting it...

Um, I don't remember exactly what I'd said, but it was to the effect that more active types of meditative practice suit me better.

And to thank you, KD for your explanation.

And to say that I think I'm concerned about this because for so long I felt these thoughts of mine, because of their graphic nature, would do me in or I'd do self in if I couldn't find a solution. So any research on the subject that can point to treatments is useful to me and welcome. Meds do work for me though. Definitely. But could I have them entirely gone? I do therapy and practice CBT and I've done exposure response prevention and acceptance and commitment therapy and all of it does nothing for me without medication blocking a significant portion of them from happening to begin with.

Running is something I've done since a preteen to clear my head. So in a way maybe it's akin to active meditation.

Oh, I remembered another thing I'd said: the reason I did so much therapy is because the nature of my thoughts, that my mind would even conjure them, created this feeling in me that I am truly "evil" or that I am an actual "bad person" and the fears that they would consume me. And I hid them as long as I could. Anyway, that there is something happening that's not a reflection of who and what I am as a person seems corroborated to some extent by the research and that gives me some comfort because I still doubt whether a decent person would have the thoughts I have and do the things I do as a result of what I hear and see and believe sometimes.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to peripatetic For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17)
  #11  
Old 11-07-17, 06:06 AM
sarahsweets's Avatar
sarahsweets sarahsweets is offline
Mod-A-holic
 

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: nj, usa
Posts: 25,294
Thanks: 5,560
Thanked 29,554 Times in 13,428 Posts
sarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond reputesarahsweets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

I think I did, sorry peri, its this bum hand. I meant to say that even though you said you had trouble meditating in the past, that your running could be meditative because of that zen that runners get into. At least for me, when I used to run(i need to start again) I pushed past the pain of that first mile and whether it was endorphines or what I dont know, but it was an odd sense of peace and mindfulness that I would feel working on the next mile and then the next one etc. Its been way too long since I ran and I am kinda afraid to start again because its so hard for me to work past that painful part. It took me like three months to like running even a little bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
I think sarah accidentally edited my post instead of quoting it...

Um, I don't remember exactly what I'd said, but it was to the effect that more active types of meditative practice suit me better.

And to thank you, KD for your explanation.

And to say that I think I'm concerned about this because for so long I felt these thoughts of mine, because of their graphic nature, would do me in or I'd do self in if I couldn't find a solution. So any research on the subject that can point to treatments is useful to me and welcome. Meds do work for me though. Definitely. But could I have them entirely gone? I do therapy and practice CBT and I've done exposure response prevention and acceptance and commitment therapy and all of it does nothing for me without medication blocking a significant portion of them from happening to begin with.

Running is something I've done since a preteen to clear my head. So in a way maybe it's akin to active meditation.

Oh, I remembered another thing I'd said: the reason I did so much therapy is because the nature of my thoughts, that my mind would even conjure them, created this feeling in me that I am truly "evil" or that I am an actual "bad person" and the fears that they would consume me. And I hid them as long as I could. Anyway, that there is something happening that's not a reflection of who and what I am as a person seems corroborated to some extent by the research and that gives me some comfort because I still doubt whether a decent person would have the thoughts I have and do the things I do as a result of what I hear and see and believe sometimes.
__________________
President of the No F's given society.

I carried a watermelon?

I've always been one of a kind. It just hasnt always been positive.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sarahsweets For This Useful Post:
peripatetic (11-07-17)
  #12  
Old 11-12-17, 10:31 PM
Kunga Dorji's Avatar
Kunga Dorji Kunga Dorji is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,415
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 1,553
Thanked 5,955 Times in 2,781 Posts
Kunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond reputeKunga Dorji has a reputation beyond repute
Re: New research on intrusive thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
I think sarah accidentally edited my post instead of quoting it...

Um, I don't remember exactly what I'd said, but it was to the effect that more active types of meditative practice suit me better.

And to thank you, KD for your explanation.

And to say that I think I'm concerned about this because for so long I felt these thoughts of mine, because of their graphic nature, would do me in or I'd do self in if I couldn't find a solution. So any research on the subject that can point to treatments is useful to me and welcome. Meds do work for me though. Definitely. But could I have them entirely gone? I do therapy and practice CBT and I've done exposure response prevention and acceptance and commitment therapy and all of it does nothing for me without medication blocking a significant portion of them from happening to begin with.

Running is something I've done since a preteen to clear my head. So in a way maybe it's akin to active meditation.

Oh, I remembered another thing I'd said: the reason I did so much therapy is because the nature of my thoughts, that my mind would even conjure them, created this feeling in me that I am truly "evil" or that I am an actual "bad person" and the fears that they would consume me. And I hid them as long as I could. Anyway, that there is something happening that's not a reflection of who and what I am as a person seems corroborated to some extent by the research and that gives me some comfort because I still doubt whether a decent person would have the thoughts I have and do the things I do as a result of what I hear and see and believe sometimes.
Peri, I think both kinds of meditation have their place. Ive done quite a bit of Tai Chi (need to resume it!) too. What has caught my attention has been a study done in a highly impulsive population (I think imprisoned drug addicts)- which had to use 5 minute doses of meditation because that was the longest they could sit.
However after 8 weeks- in which they managed to complete 10 hours (about 16 five minutes sessions a week) there were improvements in self reported outcomes and in fMRI brain activation patterns indicating a clear neuroplastic change.

The technique is not so much counting breath, as fixing attention on one physical aspect of the breath (ie sensation at nostrils, or sensation of tummy rising and falling) and simply noting lapses and bringing your attention back to the original target.

I think you would be surprised at the mixed up thoughts that all of us have sometimes though. Ive we are overaroused we the end to believe them and act on them if we are overaroused or our minds are otherwise clouded.

I well remember being hit very hard on the head by a barley sugar jar. The guy was confused post operatively and thought I was an assassin working for a drug cartel and I was concealing a gun under my white coat (which was folded over my arm). Actually it was a brown paper bag containing sandwiches and fruit. So yes- we all carry unusual ideas.
__________________
Science advances --one funeral at a time.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

both by:
Max Planck: Nobel Prize 1918 for inventing quantum physics.

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kunga Dorji For This Useful Post:
aeon (11-12-17), mildadhd (11-13-17)
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to stop intrusive thoughts or rumination?? Fuzzy12 General ADD Talk 37 04-15-16 12:18 PM
Intrusive thoughts Fuzzy12 General ADD Talk 24 02-14-16 05:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums