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Old 09-23-03, 09:31 PM
xbootubex xbootubex is offline
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marijuana with Straterra

I have just been prescribed Straterra for my ADD. I really hope this will be the one that works. Adderall was the most amazing thing to happen to me until the good effects eventually went away and was replaced with anxiety and depression all throught the day. Adderall made me consious of my heart 24 hours a day and i was in fear of having panic attacks which I had never even come close to having in my past. Well Im starting Straterra tommorow morning and I am a daily marijuana smoker mostly nightime before bed. I often have trouble falling asleep and smoking always hits the spot. I wouldnt consider myself a pothead because I dont really enjoy the experience during the day with friends. It makes me paranoid and feel ackward socially, as well as give me anxiety. These are things I notice most of my friends do not experience at all and was wondering if Straterra would effect the marijuana high. If marijuana will interact with the medication I have no problem quitting the drug but it has been in my life for several years now and I am just curious about its effects with Straterra.
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Old 09-23-03, 10:07 PM
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Welcome to the forums Xboot...I haven't heard that question been asked yet here....and the first and last time I had any marijuana was -- well you probably weren't born yet

I cannot imagine the interaction could be terribly beneficial....what does your doctor think?
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Old 09-23-03, 10:17 PM
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I dont know about strata but it sure works well with dexedrine

I wont say it had any benifits as to helping my ADD and clearing my thinking process

But It certanly didnt hurt on the dreaming aspect of it

Seriously though I have been a user since I was 13 (now 49)
haventt used it much at all in last year and a half since I started medication for ADD. (Dexadrine)

I used it as a self medication all my life with out knowing I was medicating myself for anything

I would have to say with a reasonable degree of knowalge that
It would probally be like a negative and a positive

The good of the starta will be cancelled by the effect of the pot

so if you really want to help yourself and try to get a handle on the ADD (My Oppinion) would be that the pot has to go

That is my oppinion for what it is worth
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Old 09-24-03, 09:17 AM
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Pot has a low risk of interaction with other medications, however, it does have the potential to increase your anxiety level, which is probably already elevated by your meds and now by the thought of mixing meds with pot. Choose one or the other if for no other reason than to be able to judge if your meds are helping (no complicating factors involved).
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Old 09-24-03, 09:40 AM
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I would have to agree with Why. Though I am not advocating nor judging anyone regarding the use of pot, the fact remains that Strattera is a new medication, with side effects that vary from cotton mouth to significant drug-drug interaction with blood pressure meds. So my recommendation would be to stick with the Strattera, without the pot, for at least 2-3 weeks. Once you've determined the benefits/effects that it has on you, then you can experiment (if you choose) with mixing Strattera & pot.
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Old 09-24-03, 09:51 AM
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Re: marijuana with Straterra

Quote:
Originally posted by xbootubex
I have just been prescribed Straterra for my ADD. I really hope this will be the one that works.


[Pot] It makes me paranoid and feel ackward socially, as well as give me anxiety.


These are things I notice most of my friends do not experience at all...

Objectively, from your own mouth it sounds like your own appreciation of the effect of Pot is:

1) not good for you (causes anxiety)

2) different from others, so your technical request to compare with others experience might not knitt any more tightly than the lack of similarity of pot's impact on you compared to your friends.

Aside from other concerns, ANY drug can have rebound effects that make it hard to stop. Many prescription "tranquilizers" make the people who take them excessively un-tranquil whenthey try to STOP. Librium, valium, etc. have had this reputation.

Since pot is illegal, good information about the RATE of Occurance of similar experiences is hard to trust. But we might be able to assume that for some people, rather than just making them mellow, pot could also make them quite un-mellow as well.

the suggestion has already been made that you pick a drug and use it alone so you can tell its impact from any others.

My experience with adults who self medicate is that try as they might, there is categoricall no way for them to be objective. Those who continue to use report problems but do not take the actions they would propose for othes similarly faced. Those who pick abstenance are haunted about taking any drugs, and are severely bothered by any others who have also chosen to abstain when they are critical of any drug use for any reason. Such people care, but do not have an internal arrow of direction objective and independent from their personal experience of the drug state.

Al that is to say, you will end up takin both at once, or only taking one or the ohter, but the confidence you seek about which is really "right" will, within my experience, be impermanent and ellusively haunting.

You've already indicated your experience differes greatly form others, so i would suggest you not seek to compare your experienc eof drug combinations with others experience as a primary guide.

You've already indicated that pot use cause you, as you assess it, a problem or two you don't like enough to stop another drug that did that to you, so I'd suggest you consider stopping the pot that also causes it as well.

But that would only be you following your own advice as you laid it out in your original post.

i really haven't made any suggestions you didn't already state point blank in your own post.

Good luck and welcome to the area.

PS.

Though some here might have found "one thing that works" i think most of us have more modest hopes for things we do, plan, swallow... i think that most of us do not expect a magic bullet that will cure all our ADHD and related problems. But for this, check the wisdom of other posters.

Go in peace.
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Old 09-24-03, 10:02 AM
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If adderall gave you problem you can always try the two major constiutents alone... dexadrine and methyl phenidate. One at a time you might find what is hlpful and what is distrubing.
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Old 09-24-03, 08:30 PM
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wow, its only been one day and several people have replied already to my post. Well I took Straterra today 25 mg for the first time and i felt pretty uncomfortable through the first half of the day. I felt alot calmer but very dysphoric during school, i wasnt figgeting like usual and didnt talk at all in class, very much not like me. Its only the first day and im still optomistic that this will work. As far as pot I just want to clear up some things. I do not like to smoke pot during the day because of how self-consious and paranoid it makes me. The thing i am concerned about is giving up smoking at night before bed. When nighttime rolls around each night I crave pot. Its such a habit for me to smoke at night that if i dont I get very irritated and generally have a hard time going to sleep. The reason I asked if there were any known interactions was because I have had bad interactions in the past with other meds. The entire pot experience has changed forever for me ever since adderall. Before adderall I was generally in a stable state of mind but with notible signs of ADD for several years. My school work and grades was really the only problem in my life. As soon as i was started on adderall there was a huge improvement in grades and attitude. Eventually the rapid heart beat that the adderall produced turned into daily anxiety. This was the first time I had ever experienced anxiety in my life and it became debilitating after awhile to the point where I would have panic attacks until my arms went numb and couldnt goto school. I could also feel my heartbeat at any time during the day just by sitting there. This anxiety eventually got worse and worse and my parents didnt understand it. I was constantly repremanded and felt like it was my fault, this turned into depression and I was prescribed Wellbutrin. This didnt help at all as i still got panic attacks and had to leave school and take homeschooling. Eventaully after I was off the adderall my heart still raced throughout the day but it took about 2 weeks of being off aderall for it to go back to normal. My depression went away after being on wellbutrin for several months and then stopping it on my own because i did not like how it made me feel and I knew i was not depressed anymore and it was definatly caused by adderall. Smoking pot while on adderall made my heart pound over 200 bpm and skip several times a minute. After a whole 7 months on adderall I lost about 40 lbs which was mabye the only good thing that came out of it. From 160 to to 120 lbs I used to be chubby but now im very slim and have kept it off ever since. Along with adderall pot also was unpleasent with remeron, paxil, wellbutrin, etc. Now im back at square one and Im starting the Straterra, I dont know why i wrote all this but tonite Im gonna hit the bong and see what happens, ill keep posted.
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Old 09-24-03, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
I cannot imagine the interaction could be terribly beneficial....what does your doctor think?
My doctor thinks pot counteracts everything and anything, no exceptions. Most of the information that is taught about marijuana is not true at all and based on unconclusive research. Im not defending it, what do i know I could be wrong, but I dont like his know it all attitude when he doesnt know anything. Even with medications that he has prescribed me I find myself knowing more than him about them because I actually research them. I have heard of people being prescribed Wellbutrin and having serious reactions where they are sent to the hospital and then when they go back to the doctor he prescribes them Zyban, the same dam thing. So doctors I dont trust 100%, I trust what i read on online forums and reading as much as i can about something and then using my judgement. Before starting any medications I would smoke occasionally during school and find myself in class as high as can be actually sitting still doing my work and being totally absorbed in the lesson. I have tried ritalin adderall and concerta for add and they all have bad comedowns. Total bliss and euphoria with unimaginable ability concentration and motivation to do almost anything is great, but its not worth coming home and not having enough energy to stay up but not sleepy enough to goto sleep, no patience to hear a word from anybody and total dyphoria for the rest of the night until 3 am in the morning. SUCKS. dam i did alot of writing today im gonna go eat, Thanks for welcoming me to the forum I like how everyone helps eachother here. :-)
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Old 09-24-03, 11:46 PM
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I'm not going to pull any punches:

You recite the life of a person addicted, psychologically and perhaps physiologically to pot. You need to get clean and sober or your daily rebound will eat you up. That is the last i'll say about that.

it's your responsiblity to not make excuses that don't excuse, and do what it takes to take care of your REAL interests.

I trust you'll do it as soon as your are ready, and not an instant earlier. If all you needed was straight talk, you've had it, and i have served my obligation to bring it to your attention once.

Second, I worked on a literature research project that covered the available research on MJ and delta-9 THC over 200 years. The available information up to 1979 was primitive and almost useless.

There are many substances in MJ that are psychoactive, not just one, and many of them metabolize into other psychoactive drugs.

If you don't keep the weed in a refrigerator immediately after harvest and until consumption, the degradation of some of the most "important" components is all most complete within 36 hours, even at room temperature. (this is based on studies done with chromatigraphs.)

That being the case, and the weed usuallly spending considerable time in very hot modes of transportation for hours or days, its a wonder there is any effect left at all that is not "learned." With dozens of competeing effects it is a wonder that there is any agreement on the subjective effect of MJ at all.

That you report a requirement to hit the bong should tell you somehing about the nature of your relationship to it, master and slave. Whom is the master and whom the slave?

A word to the wise is sufficent.

That being said, keep coming back. You're among people of many experiences and differing opinions. Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Old 09-25-03, 11:19 AM
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David, it appears you've made some assumptions about cannabis that I would disagree with. Instead of starting some silly back n forth, I would merely like to post some information to serve as a "seccond opinion" on the issue.

Please keep in mind that I am posting only the information that I, myself find credible - whether anyone else finds this info credible is up to them. I am not preaching, nor am I seeking to win a debate - only to round out the discussion.
[list]

Recreational use

8.18 It is believed in some quarters that the current absolute prohibition on the recreational use of cannabis and its derivatives is not justified by the adverse consequences for the user and the public. On the evidence before us, we disagree. On the contrary, we endorse the Government's statement in Tackling Drugs: "The more evidence becomes available about the risks of...cannabis,...the more discredited the notion that [it is] harmless" (paragraph 6.16).

8.19 The harms must not be overstated: cannabis is neither poisonous (paragraph 4.3), nor highly addictive, and we do not believe that it can cause schizophrenia in a previously well user with no predisposition to develop the disease. However, we are satisfied that:

— It is intoxicating, enough to impair the ability to carry out safety-critical tasks (such as flying, driving or operating machinery) for several hours after taking (paragraphs 4.6-9);

— It can have adverse psychic effects ranging from temporary distress, through transient psychosis, to the exacerbation of pre-existing mental illness (paragraphs 4.10-12);

— Regular use can lead to psychological dependence (paragraphs 4.23-33); and, in some dependent individuals (perhaps 5-10 per cent of regular users), regular heavy use can produce a state of near continuous intoxication, making normal life impossible;

— Withdrawal may occasionally involve unpleasant symptoms (paragraphs 4.23-25);

— Cannabis impairs cognitive function during use (paragraph 4.6);

— It increases the heart rate and lowers the blood pressure, carrying risks to people with cardiovascular conditions, especially first-time users who have not developed tolerance to this effect (paragraph 4.4).

8.20 Moreover, it is possible, though not proved, that the effects of cannabis on driving etc. may last longer than a few hours after taking (paragraph 4.7); that the damage to cognitive function may endure after withdrawal (paragraph 4.13); and that cannabis has adverse effects on the immune system (paragraph 5.16) and on fertility and reproduction (paragraphs 4.15-16).

8.21 In addition, smoking cannabis carries similar risks of respiratory disorders to smoking tobacco. It is also possible, though not proved, that exposure to cannabis smoke increases the risk of cancers of the mouth, throat and lung (paragraphs 4.17-18).

8.22 Therefore, on the basis of the scientific evidence which we have collected, we recommend that cannabis and its derivatives should continue to be controlled drugs.


  • A link to a Canadian Senate Special Committee Report on Illegal Drugs: http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/Committ...s=1&comm_id=85 . Some excerpts from the summary:

    Conclusions of Chapter 7

    Acute effects of cannabis :

    ุ The immediate effects of cannabis are characterized by feelings of euphoria, relaxation and sociability; they are accompanied by impairment of short-term memory, concentration and some psychomotor skills.

    Distinctions between uses :

    ุ For purposes of public policy, the Committee does not feel that the traditional distinctions between acute and chronic effects are useful.

    ุ Similarly, the Committee does not feel the dichotomy of use and dependence is useful.

    ุ The research data does not allow for a clear distinction between use, at-risk use and heavy use.

    ุ The amount consumed is an indicator, but other factors, psychosocial factors and factors relating to the context of use and the quality of the substance, are equally determining in the passage from use to at-risk use and heavy use.

    At-risk use and heavy use in adults :

    ุ Nevertheless, the Committee feels that for people over the age of 16, at-risk use lies within the range of 0.1 to 1 gram per day; anything more than that is heavy use, which can have negative consequences on the physical, psychological and social well-being of the user.

    ุ According to this distinction, and in accordance with the epidemiological data available, there is reason to believe that approximately 100,000 Canadians could be at-risk users and approximately 80,000 could be heavy users.

    Any use in those under age 16 is high-risk use :

    ุ The Committee feels that, because of its potential effects on the endogenous cannabinoid system and cognitive and psychosocial functions, any use in those under age 16 is at-risk use;

    ุ Our estimation would suggest that approximately 50,000 youths fall in this category.

    ุ For those between the ages of 16 and 18, heavy use is not necessarily daily use but use in the morning, alone or during school activities;

    Consequences of heavy use :

    ุ Heavy use of smoked cannabis can have certain negative consequences for physical health, in particular for the respiratory system (chronic bronchitis, cancer of the upper respiratory tract).

    ุ Heavy use of cannabis can result in negative psychological consequences for users, in particular impaired concentration and learning and, in rare cases and with people already predisposed, psychotic and schizophrenic episodes.


    ุ Heavy use of cannabis can result in consequences for a user’s social well-being, in particular their occupational and social situation and their ability to perform tasks.

    ุ Heavy use of cannabis can result in dependence requiring treatment; however, dependence caused by cannabis is less severe and less frequent that dependence on other psychotropic substances, including alcohol and tobacco.

These studies lead the way to the current proposals in both UK and Canada to decriminalize cannabis.

Does nightly use of cannabis lead to a physical addiction? Unlikely. Does it lead to a psychological dependence? Possibly, but so may a Big Mac, golf or Half Life. Should one use pot nightly as a sleep aid? Well... is it ok to have a "nightcap", to take a a sleeping pill, have sex/masturbate, watch Letterman, listen to Bach...? If any of these activities become a necessity for you to live life then perhaps there is a problem. Is that problem - addiction? Unlikely.
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Old 09-25-03, 12:17 PM
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An excellent update!

Indeed if it were a more socially acceptable substance, some of the critism might be different.

But even "workaholics" who make good money, and have devistaed family lives have a problem.

successful peole who successfully balance (participate) in work and play do not have that as a problem.

My obserations come from his own post only, my conclusions are the ones that he alredy stated himself by his own report:

1) He is driven, in a non-voluntary way to it, every night.
2) He identifies that it causes some of the same "problems" he uses it to control.
3) He identifies that it participates in the failure of some of his other attempts to deal with potentially unrelated problems.
4) He identifies that it affects him differently than others he would use to judge objectively his own course of action, effectively eliminating that as an option without reported relacement of an objective frame.
5) He suggests that "he could stop" if he wanted to. [Isn't this on a poster?] Just to be clear, people who can stop after one drink, or two rarely think to actually SAY SO. And habits are not exactly equal to addictions in my lexicon.

I too believe that canabis should be "decriminalized" and regulated. That has, in my opinion, nothing to do with his situation with regard to:

1) the advisability of mixing drugs in an uncontroled and unsupervised environment in a person with already non-standard reactions to at least some of them. (He specifically asked about this)

2) the complicating role that the impact of "daily withdrawl" and the "down" it produces encouraging the appitite for the cure that in fact increases the perceived need. (He specifically brought up his trouble with interactions, other issues, etc. and described his profile of use.)

On another level...

I'm not sure what real help I am if I don't "accurately" reflect what I think I see, or if i sugar coat ramifications and implications that might be obscured from his view.

I was hoping, mostly to be an outside perspecitve of what he brought here to us, rather than an outside opinion (that might relfect some of my own feelings about the subject!)

In fact, by trying to keep my own "input" out of this, i was hoping to make it impossible to be perceived as material for an "arguement" or "convincing" engagement. If all i work with is what he gives me, the most he can do is "argue" with himself, which seems completely appropriate to me. And i am willing to stand in for him to give him the opportunity to spar against his own observations and conclusions to his own benefit (not mine!) by externalizing part of them while he choses what to retain and work with on "his side" and in the privacy of his own existance.

I really was only trying to make sure that, by rephrasing his own words, I could serve to give a clear voice to his own voice in a way he may himself have become accustomed to discounting out of hand before due consideration.

Do you think I made it, or that i'm kidding myself? (i'll politely take either answer, or another...)

Now, if you want MY opinions, just feel free to ask! (in a separate thread please!)

Last edited by Wheel1975; 09-25-03 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 09-25-03, 12:45 PM
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If it isn't too much trouble, please read my post carefully. Though the spelling sucks, some thought went into other parts.

For instance you my infer that i think mixing drugs in a person with uncommon reactions is inadvisble, but i really only posed the description in conjunction with the word "advisability" not "inadvisability." I did not there state an opinion, but simply restated what had already been stated.

Please try to make sure you don't credit me with INTENDING the inferences you draw from what I write. I appreciate the credit, but I don't deserve it. You can take credit for that yourself, gentle reader.

Thanks!
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Old 09-25-03, 02:19 PM
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David,

I don't think I frased my comment correctly. I had not intended it as a criticism or a rebutal. Your post is as you said it is, and mine unfortunately came out to be a bit paranoid and defensive. I guess I failed to be cognizant of the tone of my post nor the actual content of yours. My bad.
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Old 09-25-03, 02:53 PM
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Thank you. (For those in a 12 step recovery this would be an Excellent Step 10!)

But don't fall on your sword yet!

I really appreciate your comments, content and participation.

I have been held to account for my own mis-statements when my ACTUAL position had already been disclosed as well, and i am here to tell you that i will not eagerly hold you to ANYTHING you want to revise.

I'm interested in "knowing" your intent as well as possible. And I hold no truck with the practice of pinning people down to possitions or even off-hand comments that they wish rather to clarify or alter or change or rethink or state more strongly!

Geeze, too, i hope i didn't stomp on you! When i try to get vey clear (it is VERY HARD FOR ME) i some times come across very strongly... too strongly... it is a reflection of all the effort I am putting into self control, but it apparently leaks all over! i really have no ida how to prevent or diminish that yet.

Sorry!

I look forward to more of your comments!
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