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Old 09-24-09, 01:00 AM
Alle Alle is offline
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Do you see a Therapist for more then Diagnosis?

I am not sure how important it is for me to officially get diagnosed, and if I do, by whom. Is it best to find a psychiatrist or a neurologist, or are there some psychologists who diagnose? After you get diagnosed, is that it? Is it just for the sake of getting a stimulant prescription, or do you keep seeing the person to 'talk' about it?

I am not looking for a prescription anyways. I have so many anxiety disorders in addition to the ADD I am sure I have, any stimulants would just make those worse, and I don't like all the side effects of those things anyways. I just want to be sure that a professional confirms it for me, however that is very expensive just for a diagnosis if there is no therapy afterwards. I feel like I have to see so many professionals. I had been seeing cognitive behavioral therapists for my OCD and need to start up again, but they specialize in OCD so they don't know anything ADD. When I told my therapist that I have just as many problems in my life because of my ADD, he didn't even blink or inquire further about it. I don't want to see a different specialist for everything. I just am not sure where to go next. Thanks!
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Old 09-24-09, 02:11 AM
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Re: Do you see a Therapist for more then Diagnosis?

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Originally Posted by Alle View Post
I am not sure how important it is for me to officially get diagnosed, and if I do, by whom. Is it best to find a psychiatrist or a neurologist, or are there some psychologists who diagnose? After you get diagnosed, is that it? Is it just for the sake of getting a stimulant prescription, or do you keep seeing the person to 'talk' about it?

I am not looking for a prescription anyways. I have so many anxiety disorders in addition to the ADD I am sure I have, any stimulants would just make those worse, and I don't like all the side effects of those things anyways. I just want to be sure that a professional confirms it for me, however that is very expensive just for a diagnosis if there is no therapy afterwards. I feel like I have to see so many professionals. I had been seeing cognitive behavioral therapists for my OCD and need to start up again, but they specialize in OCD so they don't know anything ADD. When I told my therapist that I have just as many problems in my life because of my ADD, he didn't even blink or inquire further about it. I don't want to see a different specialist for everything. I just am not sure where to go next. Thanks!
You raise some great questions!

You will be satisfied to know that a number of PhDs in the phonebook that you would call, are also certified PsyDs. Finding a PhD who is also a PsyD is a great combination for these reasons:

A PhD is skilled in assertaining how we have come to the cognitive mental place that we are at, by our behaviours, and can give insight in how to "undo" some of those learned patterns (ie: psychotherapy.. EMDR.. CBT.. ect.

A PsyD specializes in moreso the 'science' of why we are ticking the way we are.. and would deal more specifically in neurological brain functions.. such as medications, vitamin suplimentation.. .. the whole "chemical" side of things.

Now.. both of these "schools" are extremely important in mental health.. if i can use the example of Chiropractic + Massage Therapy.. They work best together for a resolved and absolute treatment.

A PhD or a PsyD should be able to Diagnose.. Just ask them if you are able to perform a MPII-2 with them. If they can do an MPII-2, they should be able to Diagnose.. MPII-2 or not though.. nothings better than a good up front.. "hi.. this is whats going on.. what do you think?" phone talk.

NOW.. it should be important to note.. that certain Drs specialize in certain areas of mental health (ie: the Autism Spectrum), they should tell you straight up about that specialty.

If you're interested in getting an EEG for potential lobe seizure activity.. or a CAT or PET.. you're still going to want someone who is a liscenced PsyD.. so you can get a referal to a NeuroPsych. Likely the Neuro wont take you without a referral as its kinda like an Architect accepting a job from someone who has never seen a house before.. hes/she is gonna need some additional info that you (the patient) are not going to be able to give.

Now I need to stand by the PhD side of things.. and express how important theraputic sessions are. Its not just "talking about your Dad.." and all that sheep****. A PhD who is skilled in say.. Psychotherapy.. will be able to take the (and this is only an analogy) "broken house" that you present to him with confused shrugged shoulders... and he/she would be able to tell you..

"oh.. well you have a broken house."

.
.
LOL but then they'd be able to help you figure out "how" it got broken. And ways on repairing it.

Now .. i also have to stand by the PsyD side of things.. because the involvement of medication in any treatment (just like Chiro + Massage).. is invalubal.

Take for example Clinical Depression. CD is ESSENTIALLY.. the place we find ourselves in.. when our brain learns to habitually behave "that" way. In alot of cases.. no amount of "talking about it", or "happy thoughts".. or "LOLcat e-cards" are going to help.. because its not just a case of the humpday blues. Depression is a Mental Sickness. Sometimes talkin about it and all that does help.. but 9 times out of 10.. you would need a medication to help stabilize your neurochemistry an-

*sigh* its like needing to put the training wheels back on

Whatever, we use crutches when we have a broken leg, Antidepressants are no different.

So.. in summary.. most PhDs (the ones that want consistant work anyway) should be liscensed as a PsyD so they can cover all of these bases.. and if you need to be referred to a NeuroPsych, then you should be able to from someone who is liscened in your state (PhD or PsyD or otherwise)

But ya..

PhD = The "i learned to be this way" doctor
PsyD = The "chemical imbalance" doctor
NeuroPsych = The "brain engineer" or (as i like to call them "mmm joor teeking vhen joo shoult be tolking") doctor

Hope my little.. ragtag descriptions helped

I_DTour

You really should just flip open the phone book and call some drs up.. 90% of them (around here) give a free consultation on the phone.. ask them straight out.. "im worried that crazy i might be. a diagnosis from you i could have. Settle my worries... they will... "

its like Shopping.. minus the Yoda
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Old 09-24-09, 02:26 AM
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Re: Do you see a Therapist for more then Diagnosis?

I guess i could have stated it like this..

PhD = Physics
PsyD = Chemistry
Neuro = Biology

That would have been perfect.

Also on the Diagnosis.. it should be noted that alot of conditions are still subject to the art of "subjectivity". Not to say they dont exist..

But if a Dr is uncomfortable properly diagnosing you.. they'll tell you..

Seriously.. just rip open the phone book and start with some PhD/PsyDs

I_DTour
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Old 09-24-09, 02:41 AM
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Re: Do you see a Therapist for more then Diagnosis?

ugh i kinda feel bad. i shot my mouth off a bit before absorbing the fullness of the inquiry..

99% of thats stuff you already know.

Well.. understanding what the 3 different fields do is a good foundation.. because in the course of mental diagnosis and treatment.. all 3 of them might play a part.

Now.. again.. a PhD/PsyD is more than likely your best bet to a Diagnosis.. as you were inquiring about..

And as you probably already know.. there will be a treatment plan.. which might involve medication. a PhD/PsyD is your.. most efficient way of achieving this.

But when speaking about Anxiety disorders.. these are usually balanced with a medication.. and therapy is used to balance out the habits, until medication is not necissary (this is the ideal intent)

With Obsessive disorders, (im not a good person to ask, but the anxiety behind the OCD would be a medication issue.. along with therapy to reduce the intensity of the obsession)

With Learning Disorders (ADD) it might be a combination of both.. medication and therapy.. (with ADD.. a slew of ... hell its probably why you have some of your Anxiety disorders.. )

Im not sure if i am aware of anything more... encompassing than an PhD/PsyD.. because in the grand scheme of things, its going to come down to business potential unfortunately.. and you could pay.. what.. 2.. 300/ hour for a PhD/PsyD/Neuro. or have a PhD/Psyd... and a Neuro.. (if it was necissary) for probably much cheaper.

Im probably not making much more sense.

Epic fail DTour..

;8
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  #5  
Old 09-24-09, 04:25 AM
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Re: Do you see a Therapist for more then Diagnosis?

Thanks DTour! Wow, you're very generous with the information.

So, just to be clear, here are the questions I still have I guess. Or am still debating in my head.

1) How easy is it to find a combo PhD/PsyD who is skilled and experienced with diagnosing and treating both ADD, Depression and Anxiety Disorders?

2) How long does the diagnosis for ADD take roughly? How many sessions? I know it depends on the Dr., but just curious what other's experiences are. I don't need anything else diagnosed as they already have been, but I know the whole "intake process" whenever seeing someone new can go on for so long and cost so much before even getting to the actual therapy part. And yeah I know it can be very subjective. The first PhD I saw was terrible and gave me so many misdiagnosis's that were a total joke and not in the least bit thoroughly concluded - but she sucked.

3) What is the standard kind of "talk therapy" for ADD? I know with my OCD the golden standard is ERP (exposure response prevention) and it is very structured and dry and kind of mindless actually. Just curious what kind of methods and structures of therapy they have found useful for ADD.

I guess also part of my deli-ma and reluctance is that it is far easier just to go back to the office I knew - as it's long distance and has a sliding scale, so I can see an intern instead of the PhD I was paying $250 a session for. If I find a local PhD/PsyD, I will be back to paying the high rates again. Although maybe that will be o.k. just for the diagnosis and then stop - as long as it doesn't take too many sessions to get that. As far as the chemistry, I am aware of the importance of it, but I've done so much research and am prepared to experiment with diet, exercise and the right supplements. I'll see if it helps.

I guess the next step is to just start searching and calling around. I will make sure to repeat your Yoda script - I'm sure I'll get a prescription right over the phone that way! LOL!
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Old 09-24-09, 06:07 AM
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Re: Do you see a Therapist for more then Diagnosis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ally
1) How easy is it to find a combo PhD/PsyD who is skilled and experienced with diagnosing and treating both ADD, Depression and Anxiety Disorders?
Well around here most PhDs avertise that they also are PsyDs (IE: Dr Jane F Dickenson PhD/PsyD). As with most all Drs., It is common to display your focus's after your title. .. ie: Dr. Matthew Rogers D.O. MD. [ in this case for Medical Doctor with a focus on Ostheopathic (Doctor of Ostheopathic) Medicine)

Now.. the bonus with ADD.. is that its pretty much standard that ADD, Depression, and Anxiety disorders are standard. That is to say if you have ADD.. theres an 80% chance that you suffer from an anxiety disorder of some kind (ie: General Anxiety Disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder).. consiquently this can result in a clinical depression disorder (and who can blame?) So ADD, Anxiety, and Depression.. fit in the same catagory..

If not, that would be like finding a DJ, who didnt know about Track Selection, or Reading the Audience.

Its almost impossible to have ADD, and NOT have an Anxiety Disorder, or a Depression Disorder.

Baiscally what i mean is when you see a Dr for ADD.. the first 2 questions they will ask themselves are : "What kind of Anxiety, and Depression is this person experiencing?"

They are comorbid to ADD (when i say "Co-morbid", i mean they are conditions that can happen in conjunction "with" ADD. And these 2 are really super common (OCD too, which also includes Eating Disorders aswel.. ADD is really a Cesspool of Social/Personality Disorders, and any Dr. who deals with ADD will be very very aware of them in conjuction with ADD). So if you see someone for ADD.. then Anxiety and Depression are pretty much standard, in fact the most common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ally
2) How long does the diagnosis for ADD take roughly? How many sessions? I know it depends on the Dr., but just curious what other's experiences are. I don't need anything else diagnosed as they already have been, but I know the whole "intake process" whenever seeing someone new can go on for so long and cost so much before even getting to the actual therapy part. And yeah I know it can be very subjective. The first PhD I saw was terrible and gave me so many misdiagnosis's that were a total joke and not in the least bit thoroughly concluded - but she sucked.
A Diagnosis of ADD can at least 2 sessions (i would prepare for, one to take the results, one to inturpret the results.. you might be able to have it done in one 2 - 3 hour session *shrug* ive heard it more commonly done in 2.. 1 hour sessions). You see the complication is, because ADD is a "subjective" disorder (by that i mean there are no scientific, medical.. blood tests.. that are 100% approved).. Generally what they will do is spend a session with you asking you questions about habits, difficulties, possibly going into family history with alcohol and substance abuse, how things were growing up..

There are Indefinate symptoms of ADD, that are pretty hard to miss when you have the whole picture.. and you see thats the big part of Mental Health.. there is a "whole picture". Once a therapist has a "whole picture" to work from (who is even remotely compitant).. they can look at the image and say "hmm.. mmhmm.. mmmmmmmmhmm.... this looks like a general case of Hypochondria - there is no medical problem here.. but there is anxiety. OR.. MMMMMMmmmmmHHMMM..... definately Borderline Personality Disorder.. ... or.. Ye-.. yep.. *please stop inturrupting me?* Definately ADHD.)

However.. while this diagnosis "could" happen in one session.. (and the questionair they generally use is an MPII-2, this covers a multitude of Psychiatric Conditions).. Treating the disorder on a Psychiatric level 'could' mean perscribing a stimulant. This presents a difficulty, especially in this day and age, because medications for this are not only used in ADD, but also Narcolepsy, and Chronic Fatigue ect ect conditions, but are also Schedule 2 Drugs as far as the government is concerned. This becomes an Ethincs issue.. and a perscribing Dr may want to take an extra session or 2 to make absolutely sure that they are perscribing the right medication for the right disorder... for the right person. Savy?

Now.. i should tell you -from experience-.. that symptoms of ADD, can be exasperated by the wrong medication, the wrong diet, the wrong lifestyle.

Im totally expecting to get slapped for this.. but im going to say it anyway..

ADD.. is like Diabetes.. IN THE SENSE *ducks* that it definately does involve a Lifestyle Change. Certain chemicals that we put in our bodies.. (ie: the wrong vitamin combo.. caffien.. sugars.. even the wrong protiens..).. mixed with not enough excersize.. too much TV (you'll come across some interesting studies on Television/Computers and Beta/Theta brainwave patterns and ADD).. it is a lifestyle thing. We are sensitive to Stimuli.. in general. ADD is like "Neurological Diabetes". (someone's totally going to bury me for that one.. ;D )

All in the same.. alot of other conditions CAN exibit symptoms of ADHD, which is why its handy to not only attenuate your lifestyle (cause who doesnt want to live healthier anyway right? ;] ), but also make sure.. that your not experiencing a B-Vitamin deficiency, or some other -very simple and cheap!- to remedy imbalance that might have been taken for granted.. all the same its good to know that its not something more.

Comorbidly (theres my favorite word of the month again), any amount of self perpetuating "worry".. can lead to an anxiety disorder.. Its helpful to make sure that ADD is the actual cause. Because you dont want to be put on Stimulants, if your NOT ADD.. and have anxiety? That would be a whole Cluster***** of problems ;D You would just freak out all over the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addy
3) What is the standard kind of "talk therapy" for ADD? I know with my OCD the golden standard is ERP (exposure response prevention) and it is very structured and dry and kind of mindless actually. Just curious what kind of methods and structures of therapy they have found useful for ADD.
[riiopod - sorry.. had a spider crawling into my armpit... ehheh.. talk therapy for ADD..

You're probably looking more into Coaching. When it comes to ADD.. im finding personally that theres a VAST amount of Perspective differences to Life that are influenced by ADD. Alot of failure.. alot of Aspirations.. alot of .. why .. what am i doing .. how do i do this better? ADD is not a "lazy" disorder, or an "immoral" dissorder as once was thought. There is definately a motivation, aspiration, reasoning, and self control aspect of things.

If your looking for ADD "therapy".. i might direct you towards "ADD Coaching" instead. A Coach (who will almost always be ADD, or be directly relative to someone who is) will understand the "Psyche" that you are working with, and help you understand and work with 'tactics' on how to manage your life more efficiently.

ADD is something you live with, whether you treat it or not.. there is no getting over it. Exposure therapy is Awesome! .. for OCD.. and Anxiety.. and even PTSD (under specific conditions), but I would say that Behavioral Therapy would work better to learn how to circumvent the triggers before they.. trigger. Rather than Exposing yourself to a Nuke, and being disabled. (personal perspective)

Aswell.. a HUGE amount of conditions (as Anxiety, and especially PTSD) come along with ADD. Having someone going through exposure therapy.. (in the topic of Phobias.. i completely support Supervised Exposure Therapy), could be hazardous and .. well who knows what could happen (Im moreso speaking from a PTSD aspect of things.. alot of ADDrs have some measure of Post Traumatic Experience.. and Exposure Therapy is generally not a good mix for that.. its like Pandoras Box) . I feel a more touch and go approach is more suited to ADD/Anxiety/PTSD. Such as Cognitive BT, and EMDR, even Hypno.. Role Play is great.. How many of us DONT role play? LOL One thing ive learned about ADD is, I have to be not only commited, but more i... MOST importantly.. READY to engage in whatever activity im going to do.. if im not ready.. i get awashed with Apathy. Then the whole point of whatever therapy is gone. So more subtle therapies would "seem" to be more advantageous.

*this is all personal perspective.. my word means nothing.. outside of opinion*

Most useful ADD therapies outside of Medication, having a Nutritionist, or a Personal Trainer.. have been having someone available to "talk it out".. who is skilled in Anxiety and PTSD and related disorders.. (ie: a Psychotherapist.. [most every PhD is schooled in Psychotherapy.... Psychotherapy is like.. a cresent wrench to a toolkit in Psychology], my personal tidbit.. someone who is trained in EMDR (great for Anxiety.. how to manage Anxiety.. and how to learn how to intercept Anxiety - and most importanly how you "percieve" situations that normally trigger you)

OH..

And ADDForums.com. Great place to find advice and tidbits on

Quote:
Originally Posted by addy
instead of the PhD I was paying $250 a session for.
I wont lie to you.. having a Mental Health Evaluation done, can be a bit on the pricy side without insurance. I cannot give you an estimate.. because i dont know what the medical industry is like where your at in LA. It will involve a PhD/PsyD Evaluating you.. and inturpretting your results. This pricebench can vary.

I can promise you wont pay $5000.76 for it But it might be more than $5.00

Again.. call around. Start talking to people. Over the phone consultations are generally free, inconclusive maybe.. but free none the less

Quote:
Originally Posted by addy
I've done so much research and am prepared to experiment with diet, exercise and the right supplements. I'll see if it helps.
If you want tips on diet and excersize..

You might be interested in reading the book

"Healing ADD - The Breakthrough Program That Allows You to See and Heal the 6 Types of ADD" by Daniel G. Amen M.D.

Forwarning.. This book is FULL of very subjective psuedo-medical theories on "what" ADD actually is.. (ie: are there 6 types? or are there 3?) HOWEVER.. the Theories are fundimentally Great theories..

More importantly this book is loaded with insights on things that make ADD worse.. (ie: diet).

Again.. the theories in this book are not accepted as bar standard.. but there are a vast amount of relatable resources inside.

-Vitamin and Minerals: Get a good Mutlivitamin, and a *great* Super B-Vitamin complex (((( research B-Vitamin deficiencies.. and look at the symptoms for a deficiency in each B-Vitamin catagory.. you might be a bit shocked to see that the symptoms in almost Every B-Vitamin catagory are the same as a full on ADD episode), get an Omega 3. (Tip: Flax Seed has Omega 3 AND 6 AND 9.. so find a Flax Seed Oil based Omega supliment).

Diet is still touchy for me.. im still working on that one I dont want to get ridiculed on that one.. i know there are much more educated voices on this forum for Nutirution..

Persoanlly.. im into Veggies (dark.. workin the Vitamin K.. cook them as often as you can), Lean protiens like chicken and fish.. easy on the starches.. trying to stay away from processed canned foods (except for Tuna.. its an easy high lean protien lunch to have when you're not hungry)... oh.. Water.

So.. im done vomiting a plethora of text all over your thread.. LOL

You might want to hold off on the Yoda impression, lest they show up at your home with a bunch of men in white suits and a shot of Thorazine for you

I_DTour
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