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  #16  
Old 01-10-17, 04:21 AM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

Yes I too researched body language, learned it's important to say hello and smile, learned to never answer the question "how are you?" with anything but fine.

it's actually very difficult to find information on unwritten social rules. i think it could be that NT's are not self aware of their behaviour and have no clue they do it, they just knkw when it's off, which aleays kinda ****** me off when they so smugly talk about our self awareness being lacking.

i've tried researching these social rules but it's slim pickins.

To this day I have trouble with facial expression except anger, disapproval, and happiness. Others could juat mean anything.
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Old 01-10-17, 04:40 AM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

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Originally Posted by ginniebean View Post
Yes I too researched body language, learned it's important to say hello and smile, learned to never answer the question "how are you?" with anything but fine.

it's actually very difficult to find information on unwritten social rules. i think it could be that NT's are not self aware of their behaviour and have no clue they do it, they just knkw when it's off, which aleays kinda ****** me off when they so smugly talk about our self awareness being lacking.

i've tried researching these social rules but it's slim pickins.

To this day I have trouble with facial expression except anger, disapproval, and happiness. Others could juat mean anything.
There is a thread somewhere on this forum that lists some social rules.

I totally get it about the facial expressions, even after all of that studying I still can't figure out what other peoples face expressions mean in real time. I don't have enough time to analyze, like I would a still picture of a facial expression. It leads to me asking questions like "are you angry". Because I really cannot tell at all. I've also noticed that when I ask if a person is displaying a certain facial expression, for some reason I'm always wrong. I think the only one I am OK with is that I know smiling is generally a good thing, but there can be fake smiles too so that throws me off.

You know what is also frustrating? Those social rules often differ depending on the type of people you are around, so after you learn one thing you can't even apply it to everybody you have to learn each and every person individually.

Let's just say I learned that the hard way and I still struggle because I often accidentally make generalizations and falsely apply them.

Sorry I didn't mean to go off topic, thank you for sharing your OP. I'm not 100% sure which parts I relate to and which parts I don't. I do know that I am very sensitive though in general.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-17, 12:52 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

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Originally Posted by Fraser_0762 View Post
Dr Barkley talks about emotional dysregulation and how it is often overlooked in people with ADHD.



It seems to be an issue that the DSM over looks and something that's certainly worth taking greater consideration over.
i just looked at this again. i had seen the video before but now in this new light It becomes a little different.
.I know when I have lost it, I cannot for my life suppress it. i know Barkley says things like count to ten and offers these sorts of ideas but the wash of emotional turmoil I feel overwhelma my reason. i can hear the thoughts saying all sorts of moderating things, i can even be telling myself don't do it, don't go there, but then one more thing is said or done and WHAM the horse is out of the barn and there is no running after it until it comes back exhaisted and ashamed as hell.

i think RSF explanation fits better in a sense tho they are talking about thr same thing. Barkley tries to be upbeat, he also believes consequences, immediate ones are what will help but I've had immediate consequnces and * could give a flying fig! If the horse is out and running I'm beyind any ability I can muster to deal with that situation.

I will note that it is generally not the one singular event that has me losing it but generally a series of often complex events over time and then all hell breaks loose into rage. i contrast this with a compliant, people pleasing "sweet" nature that many comment upon when meeting me. Lion/lamb kinda deal.

About 17 years ago I went thru some very brutal emotional stuff. i had never experienced the emotion of hatred before. i had used the word in reference to things but I had not experienced for myself that dark ugliness. i had homicidal ideation. i killed someone in my ssleep every night for months and months. i became sleep avoidant and ended up suffering from sleep deprivation on top of everything.

Since that time something changed in side me, I had never been one to fly off the handle, I remember i had a recurring dream from the time I was a child of being hunted by a killer, this dream terrified me. One night during this dark time I had this dream as I often did during those months and the thought, in my dream came to me that I could kill the killer. And in my dream I did just that.

There have been good things and bad things come out of this. i am not terrified of confrontation as I once was so that'a a positive. i can say, "no, I don't want to do that when before that was nearly impossible. i am not afraid to disappoint and in a sense got my life back to live as I please instead of trying to please others. The down side of this is when I feel pushed too far there is this unmanageable rage. It doesn't come all the time, but enough to cause me concern.

So, we have rwo guys one who says we can make efforts on our own to moderate our emotional reactions (Barkley) and one who says this is beyond such self help. (can't. Remember his name) and I'm inclined to believe this second person over Barkley because that is my experience of dealing with this untamable beast. i can't begin to say how determined I struggled with this. i am a bulldog in some ways. I realise now I've hurt myself trying and perhaps even broken myself at times needing years of healing with my dogged determination to fight the unfightable.

I apologise if that's TMI I am usually much more reticent to put out such personal things about myself but this subject is of such monumental interest to me because of my great struggles with it. if this beast could be killed I would have already.
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Old 01-10-17, 12:53 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

oh hey greyhound, thanks for fixing my typo. i thought I had been more careful but I guess I wasn't. Much appreciated
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Old 01-10-17, 01:02 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

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Originally Posted by BellaVita View Post
There is a thread somewhere on this forum that lists some social rules.

I totally get it about the facial expressions, even after all of that studying I still can't figure out what other peoples face expressions mean in real time. I don't have enough time to analyze, like I would a still picture of a facial expression. It leads to me asking questions like "are you angry". Because I really cannot tell at all. I've also noticed that when I ask if a person is displaying a certain facial expression, for some reason I'm always wrong. I think the only one I am OK with is that I know smiling is generally a good thing, but there can be fake smiles too so that throws me off.

You know what is also frustrating? Those social rules often differ depending on the type of people you are around, so after you learn one thing you can't even apply it to everybody you have to learn each and every person individually.

Let's just say I learned that the hard way and I still struggle because I often accidentally make generalizations and falsely apply them.

Sorry I didn't mean to go off topic, thank you for sharing your OP. I'm not 100% sure which parts I relate to and which parts I don't. I do know that I am very sensitive though in general.
have you noticed those still pictures are tough? i guess and then when I've looked at the answer and thought "huh, how is that what they say it is? Even still pictures elude me.
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Old 01-10-17, 02:05 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

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Originally Posted by ginniebean View Post
i just looked at this again. i had seen the video before but now in this new light It becomes a little different.
.I know when I have lost it, I cannot for my life suppress it. i know Barkley says things like count to ten and offers these sorts of ideas but the wash of emotional turmoil I feel overwhelma my reason. i can hear the thoughts saying all sorts of moderating things, i can even be telling myself don't do it, don't go there, but then one more thing is said or done and WHAM the horse is out of the barn and there is no running after it until it comes back exhaisted and ashamed as hell.

i think RSF explanation fits better in a sense tho they are talking about thr same thing. Barkley tries to be upbeat, he also believes consequences, immediate ones are what will help but I've had immediate consequnces and * could give a flying fig! If the horse is out and running I'm beyind any ability I can muster to deal with that situation.

I will note that it is generally not the one singular event that has me losing it but generally a series of often complex events over time and then all hell breaks loose into rage. i contrast this with a compliant, people pleasing "sweet" nature that many comment upon when meeting me. Lion/lamb kinda deal.

About 17 years ago I went thru some very brutal emotional stuff. i had never experienced the emotion of hatred before. i had used the word in reference to things but I had not experienced for myself that dark ugliness. i had homicidal ideation. i killed someone in my ssleep every night for months and months. i became sleep avoidant and ended up suffering from sleep deprivation on top of everything.

Since that time something changed in side me, I had never been one to fly off the handle, I remember i had a recurring dream from the time I was a child of being hunted by a killer, this dream terrified me. One night during this dark time I had this dream as I often did during those months and the thought, in my dream came to me that I could kill the killer. And in my dream I did just that.

There have been good things and bad things come out of this. i am not terrified of confrontation as I once was so that'a a positive. i can say, "no, I don't want to do that when before that was nearly impossible. i am not afraid to disappoint and in a sense got my life back to live as I please instead of trying to please others. The down side of this is when I feel pushed too far there is this unmanageable rage. It doesn't come all the time, but enough to cause me concern.

So, we have rwo guys one who says we can make efforts on our own to moderate our emotional reactions (Barkley) and one who says this is beyond such self help. (can't. Remember his name) and I'm inclined to believe this second person over Barkley because that is my experience of dealing with this untamable beast. i can't begin to say how determined I struggled with this. i am a bulldog in some ways. I realise now I've hurt myself trying and perhaps even broken myself at times needing years of healing with my dogged determination to fight the unfightable.

I apologise if that's TMI I am usually much more reticent to put out such personal things about myself but this subject is of such monumental interest to me because of my great struggles with it. if this beast could be killed I would have already.

(((ginnie)))

I am sorry that you had to experience such horrible situation.
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Old 01-10-17, 04:47 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

So... my therapist isn't terribly into the term. When I broached it he replaced it with narcissism. I do think that in fairness RSD isn't *exactly* an intrinsic part of ADHD. I mean, an awful lot of us get it (or whatever it is you want to call it) but people who don't ever struggle with ADHD but have something else holding them back during their formative years can absolutely exhibit many of the same symptoms and have something that is more or less identical to what we call RSD.

I'm not sure this is something that is easily medicate-able away either (sorry to the OP). This is usually the result of coping/defense mechanisms we came up with while everyone around us was telling us we were too lazy or too stupid to keep up, not a chemical imbalance. At most you might find some drug that will help alleviate some of the symptoms while you come up with better coping strategies (themselves based on your newly found reality as a person who has a learning disability) but I would not expect a panacea.

I also think that restricting things to the "people pleaser" and "avoidance" tropes is underselling what it does to folks. I mean, to *some* extent you can interpret those terms broadly but I'm not sure if that's helpful either. Some people take that ADHDness about themselves and push themselves super hard into being perfect at everything they try (so they never have to face the rejection). Some people keep very tight control over things in their life, which isn't avoiding things, it's actively trying to take them over yourself. Some people learn how to manipulate others into doing the things they don't feel comfortable doing themselves. And yes, of course some people just keep a portion of themselves emotionally locked up and try to please others. I feel like it's important to be empathetic here that just because the initial core concept of RSD applies to you doesn't mean that that's how it manifests in everyone.

FWIW I've had a pretty decent reaction to a relatively low dosage of Ritalin but this is still something I am working through. Right now I'm at the stage where I know that the thoughts that drive a lot of this stuff are irrational and don't make a lot of sense; I am not quite at the point of being able to kick them out of my mind.
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Old 01-10-17, 05:25 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

The still pictures presented as examples are mostly actors pretending to have a certain emotion. That's probably why you don't get those - you're able to spot the inconsistencies in the actor's fake expressions because of your more-specific method of observing.

Simply: Unlike the average person, you don't know which parts of the face you're expected to ignore. That confuses you, but also makes you hard to fool. Sort of.
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Old 01-10-17, 08:47 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

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Originally Posted by ginniebean View Post
have you noticed those still pictures are tough? i guess and then when I've looked at the answer and thought "huh, how is that what they say it is? Even still pictures elude me.
Yes, I made an embarrassing thread back in the day where I posted a bunch of still images of David Archuleta's facial expressions and I thought he was displaying fear based on what I have studied.

Well it turns out he wasn't.

In order for me to get close to having the right answer for a still image, I need like four multiple-choice options where one of those options is the correct answer, and then applying the things I have learned about facial expressions and have studied, I am a bit more likely to be right.

Like I try to think of OK are the eyebrows in this position, how open is the mouth, are the eyes a little bit wide or are they very wide, are the corners of the mouth turned up downward. And then I try to deduce which is the correct one based on the things I have memorized - to see which facial expression I am likely seeing displayed.

Paul Ekman's books are very helpful and help explain facial expressions in A detailed way. And there are pictures too. I suggest checking out his works and his books if you haven't already.
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Old 01-10-17, 11:51 PM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

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Originally Posted by Johnny Slick View Post
So... my therapist isn't terribly into the term. When I broached it he replaced it with narcissism. I do think that in fairness RSD isn't *exactly* an intrinsic part of ADHD. I mean, an awful lot of us get it (or whatever it is you want to call it) but people who don't ever struggle with ADHD but have something else holding them back during their formative years can absolutely exhibit many of the same symptoms and have something that is more or less identical to what we call RSD.

I'm not sure this is something that is easily medicate-able away either (sorry to the OP). This is usually the result of coping/defense mechanisms we came up with while everyone around us was telling us we were too lazy or too stupid to keep up, not a chemical imbalance. At most you might find some drug that will help alleviate some of the symptoms while you come up with better coping strategies (themselves based on your newly found reality as a person who has a learning disability) but I would not expect a panacea.

I also think that restricting things to the "people pleaser" and "avoidance" tropes is underselling what it does to folks. I mean, to *some* extent you can interpret those terms broadly but I'm not sure if that's helpful either. Some people take that ADHDness about themselves and push themselves super hard into being perfect at everything they try (so they never have to face the rejection). Some people keep very tight control over things in their life, which isn't avoiding things, it's actively trying to take them over yourself. Some people learn how to manipulate others into doing the things they don't feel comfortable doing themselves. And yes, of course some people just keep a portion of themselves emotionally locked up and try to please others. I feel like it's important to be empathetic here that just because the initial core concept of RSD applies to you doesn't mean that that's how it manifests in everyone.

FWIW I've had a pretty decent reaction to a relatively low dosage of Ritalin but this is still something I am working through. Right now I'm at the stage where I know that the thoughts that drive a lot of this stuff are irrational and don't make a lot of sense; I am not quite at the point of being able to kick them out of my mind.
I do not meet the criteria for narcissim and wow.. It would be the last time I'd see that therapist. All I know of this disorder or what ever it is comes from exactly one magazine article. I can't possibly comment on your objections.
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Old 01-11-17, 12:02 AM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

He's using the term not as an adjunct to NPD, which I agree would be horrible, but as a way of noting that I've been very inwardly directed. That in the end is the the crux of what we're calling RSD: we get bogged down in our own perceptions of things so much that it's hard for us to see objective reality, especially when (without a diagnosis) objective reality sure does suggest that we're giant flaming sacks of crap.

In the end, just because you think you hate yourself doesn't necessarily mean you're not behaving narcissistically, at least from the common English language usage and not the clinical meaning.

As for further reading, I will once again plug "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Crazy, or Stupid?". Chapter 3 talks about coping mechanism the undiagnosed use and how it affects us.
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Old 01-11-17, 12:09 AM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

sounds about like me

havent heard of the name, its some of what i put in my 'avoidant traits ' for a long time

but really, i dont care what its called but it describes me well
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Old 01-11-17, 12:10 AM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

FTR for years I had myself self diagnosed with Avoidant Personality Disorder, so please understand that to great extent I'm probably just splitting hairs above.
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Old 01-11-17, 12:11 AM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

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FTR for years I had myself self diagnosed with Avoidant Personality Disorder, so please understand that to great extent I'm probably just splitting hairs above.


is the avoidant thing a response to what i wrote

sorry if it was, my response was to the thread
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Old 01-11-17, 12:14 AM
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Re: Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria

Having a narcissistic thought doesn't make you a narcissist, just as having a bad day and saying "I hate people" doesn't make you a sociopath.
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Postmodernism, the school of 'thought' that proclaimed 'There are no truths, only interpretations' has largely played itself out in absurdity, but it has left behind a generation of academics in the humanities disabled by their distrust of the very idea of truth and their disrespect for evidence, settling for 'conversations' in which nobody is wrong and nothing can be confirmed, only asserted with whatever style you can muster.
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