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Old 08-25-16, 06:06 AM
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article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27439337

Quote:
Our results suggest that women with ADHD are particularly vulnerable to early adversities, health and mental health problems.
This is the basic version of the study absract and not the whole thing but I meant to share it earlier and thought it would be a good doorway to open discussion.

I think it touches on the nature vs nurture thing as well.
I know for me- the above quote is totally true.
It also mentions some more broad stuff associated with adhd like smoking and sexual abuse.

Ive often wondered if women have issues like this and whether or not women with these issues are more likely to have adhd.
Im not saying this study is 100% right, just that its worth discussing.

BTW as guys are welcome to chime in, just be sensitive to the subject matter.

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Old 08-25-16, 06:55 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

I'd be curious to know how the study was conducted, and who the test group was. Too bad you have to pay to read it.

I think when you get down to "nature vs. nurture" in these issues you're going to come up with a lot of the same flaws and problems that breast feeding studies have.
You can't discount socioeconomic factors or genetics.

Chances are, not only do these women have ADHD, but their parents and grandparents and great grandparents and siblings and aunts and uncles may to.
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Old 08-25-16, 08:50 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

I'm glad they are doing studies on women. Studies have always been too focused on men in the past.

Sad us ADHDers suffer so much. I don't really see much on nature versus nurture though. Abuse would definitely be nurture (even if nature probably caused parents to have mental health issues)? But most of the other stuff could be caused by either.
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Old 08-25-16, 09:31 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

No one needs to share on this but how many of us have suffered abuse? I know I experienced physical, sexual and emotional abuse since I was a child. (the abuse trifecta!)
I wonder if the adhd influences our behavior so much that we are targets for abuse?
Or if its all coincidental?
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Old 08-25-16, 09:34 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

I always feel so guilty about this, but I have never suffered any type of abuse.
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Old 08-25-16, 11:23 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

I have no clue how the results come about.
I suspect it's a complicated web of both nature and nurture.

I do know that I've been affected by most, but not all, of the outcomes they mention.
The childhood abuse I experienced was sexual & emotional, but not physical.

Missy, don't feel guilty.
You've no reason to; you did nothing wrong.
Feel empathy if you can, but not guilt.
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Old 08-25-16, 11:28 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

It is easy to remember the trio of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse.

But we must not forget the most damaging abuse of them all: neglect.


Cheers,
Ian
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Old 08-25-16, 03:59 PM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

I think there's something to the "nurture" aspect?

Have been reading heavily on Borderline Personality Disorder - there were at least two and a half borderlines in my household (OK, fine, three, but I was enjoying the denial aspect until now).

Growing up with BPDs in the house made me hypersensitive to all those around me, which I have to think influenced early brain development and could have definitely contributed to ADHD, whether it is adaptive response or if it somehow permanently affected brain chemistry.

I would love to not be hypervigilant to others' emotions and responses, and am less so when properly medicated, but have a long ways to go.

With all my recent study on early dysfunction, I get these flashes of understanding of how ADHD totally makes sense in a brain developmental capacity, although the markers are also there for me getting it genetically, then adding a cherry on top with several head injuries through the lifetime.

Not sure there will ever be enough research on ADHD, and it's so complicated with comorbid disorders, it seems like we're just now starting to understand the big picture. Thanks sarahsweets for finding the article and sharing!
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Old 08-26-16, 04:16 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

I believe suffering the losses I did in my childhood as well as physical and emotional abuse definitely didn't do anything good for me psychologically. What didn't kill me didn't make me stronger, but it DID make me more anxious, depressed, fearful, avoidant, and whatever else it could. I have attachment problems, a propensity to want to self medicate, fear of everyone, self hatred, and by the time I graduated high school, a seething rage for my abuser underneath a very calm, polite exterior.
Although there is some genetics in there, too. My brother is anxious and depressed, and takes medicine for it. He is almost certainly undiagnosed adhd as well, and consumes a ridiculous amount of caffeine.
I think I was born prone to some psych issues, but a happier childhood would have probably made me a lot better than I am.
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Old 09-10-16, 11:52 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

Content warning: description of relationship abuse

Kids were mean to me and I didn't have a whole bunch of friends. I've always found myself to have 1 or 2 (usually 1) Good Friends at a time, and the rest was just me trying to fit in, or at least appear normal. It didn't usually work. I gave up trying to fit in early, in middle school, so even though I was isolated from the majority, it was kind of on my own accord and I made friends who were more similar to me (imagine the emo/goth crowd).

My very first relationship was at 13 and it was with an extremely abusive 14 year old boy. It lasted a year. I was initially interested in him because he had a lot of intellectual depth that other preteens and young teenagers don't have until they get a lot older, and sometimes..... Maybe never. I could never date someone superficially or date someone who was superficial. And of course, he ensnared me and pulled me in to the horrible cycle of emotional and mental abuse.

But even before then, I remember being in 4th grade and going through puberty and noticing these purple stretch marks on my hips and gaining weight around my face and even my fingers. I stopped eating lunch that year, partially because I always forgot my lunch and even though the cafeteria always had a Free option, it was a PPJ sandwich, and since I'm allergic to peanuts, it was just a jelly sandwich. So I didn't usually mind not eating that. I was also in ballet at the time still and I wasn't as thin and lanky as the other girls. I also remember never being able to fit in with any of them. I've always befriended the outsider crowd, and even that could/can be difficult for me.

I started self harming when I was 13 in hopes that my abuser would see and recognize that maybe he was causing it, since he enjoyed making me cry so many nights on the phone (and if I hung up, he'd incessantly call and even call the house number, waking my mom up in the process). It continued after the relationship ended because I think this is what really Kickstarted my depression, which was only made worse in high school because even though I've always loved education and learning (which is why I've always been mostly a successful student, save for my math deficiency), I just couldn't get my work in and it confused me. The thought of Studying made no sense to me until I started studying while cramming. I went to a private college prep school too so I was surrounded by brilliant kids, some definitely had ADHD though and I was friends with multiple of these students, but the majority were kids raised by helicopter parents who did everything they were supposed to on time and correctly. Which was not me, usually. Unless I really cared about a subject, but even then I had trouble.

I don't know when I developed anxiety but I may have always been prone to it. I definitely have it now! But I often wonder if the anxiety is a result of my racing and wandering thoughts that sometimes (often) lead to negative spaces and fears. I didn't let my mom see my depression/anxiety until senior year of high school but I know that it had been around at least since I was 13, but the social rejection may have caused it to start settling in sooner.

I remember even as a young child, I would typically bottle things up until a breaking point, usually when I was alone in my room, and I would just start crying but I usually felt better after. Idk if this is normal though. I feel it might be?? I never liked crying in front of my parents but I definitely stopped when I was a preteen, especially when my parents divorced. (Surprisingly, the divorce itself never upset me because even tho I was 12, I knew it was the best option for both of them)
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Old 09-10-16, 12:02 PM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

Genetically, I think my mom had been diagnosed with anxiety and situational depression, but I think she might have ADHD. It's hard to notice ADHD when you're surrounded by it and when you and your family of fun, quirky, brilliant, lackadaisical (I think that's the word I want), but often spacey people largely see the world as Us vs Them. Though I didn't realize until recently that Them often referred to neurotypical people, but perhaps everyone or a majority of people experience this same thing. Something to do with egocentricism, but I think I could be on to /something/.

She married a drug abuser with bipolar disorder and they had me and my brother. I think he was diagnosed with depression once, if not still. I think a lot of our diagnoses have been misrepresented and the ADHD has been overlooked because we lack the obvious signs of hyperactivity. My family is quite reserved. its funny though, because I am almost exclusively attracted to people with mental disorders and the drug use that often accompanies it. I guess the people who aren't like me are just too boring to deal with?? But then the drug abuse and mental illness (often in the form of abuse or emotional inavailability or Fear of Committment) get in the way and make it less fun. I almost stayed in a relationship with a narcissist and attributed it to my ADHD ("you're lucky I crave excitement"). But since I am too emotionally needy and attached, I need someone who can be there for me. But I'm never attracted to those people :/
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Old 09-10-16, 12:49 PM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julialouise View Post
Genetically, I think my mom had been diagnosed with anxiety and situational depression, but I think she might have ADHD. It's hard to notice ADHD when you're surrounded by it and when you and your family of fun, quirky, brilliant, lackadaisical (I think that's the word I want), but often spacey people largely see the world as Us vs Them. Though I didn't realize until recently that Them often referred to neurotypical people, but perhaps everyone or a majority of people experience this same thing. Something to do with egocentricism, but I think I could be on to /something/.

She married a drug abuser with bipolar disorder and they had me and my brother. I think he was diagnosed with depression once, if not still. I think a lot of our diagnoses have been misrepresented and the ADHD has been overlooked because we lack the obvious signs of hyperactivity. My family is quite reserved. its funny though, because I am almost exclusively attracted to people with mental disorders and the drug use that often accompanies it. I guess the people who aren't like me are just too boring to deal with?? But then the drug abuse and mental illness (often in the form of abuse or emotional inavailability or Fear of Committment) get in the way and make it less fun. I almost stayed in a relationship with a narcissist and attributed it to my ADHD ("you're lucky I crave excitement"). But since I am too emotionally needy and attached, I need someone who can be there for me. But I'm never attracted to those people :/
Have you ever been evaluated/diagnosed with anything like bipolar?
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Old 09-10-16, 02:11 PM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

....so far in this thread I am furious ....furious that people do these kinds of things to children ......srsly ....I am not a big oh kids are angels kind of person, and I knew that I shouldn't try to raise children myself .....but if you're going to have children, the very least you can do is treat them like actual humans ....not punching bags for your problems ....

...I had an idyllic childhood, and when I met with lots of people I went to grade school with a couple of years ago....turns out we all did for the most part ....happy well adjusted adults .....and we are all deeply grateful for those years .....we know as adults how lucky we were .....it was a white middle class neighborhood in the 1950s and early 60s....and that probably had a lot to do with it .....


...It wasn't until I hit college that I started to meet people who had troubled childhoods and I was shocked by some of the stories I heard about others childhoods and the treatment they got from their parents .....

.....But the stories I read about here are the saddest of all .....my heart breaks when I read statements like "the trifecta of abuse" ...what kind of monsters DO this to children .....any kind of abuse of children is unacceptable .....and the courage of the people who have this kind of childhood and go on to live successful lives is staggering .....

....Add in the problems with growing up with ADHD and it's a dam*** near miracle that they grow up at all ......


....There are some people in my family who are probably borderline ADHD, but as far as I know I am the only one who actually has it ....I suspect it has to do with a prolonged delivery, I was transverse, the story is that Mom was in labor with me for 3 days, and I was born black cause I wasn't breathing .....I was kept in the hospital for 3 days after I was born ....long enough so that the nurses there gave me my nickname of Sally, when my "real" name is Sarah .....that lack of oxygen during the delivery was enough to kick me over to ADHD


....IN the 1950s though, little if anything was known about ADHD ......but my saving grace was that I considered myself an artist from a very early age.....and so did the rest of the family ....artists having the reputations for strangeness that they do was what saved me ......we attributed my behavior and attitudes to that "artist" in me .....I grew up proud of being an artist and being different than other kids ......and I was smart enough to get by in my school work ...heard a lot about "not working up to my full potential" though ! and few demands were made on me by my folks, and I always had at least a couple of good friends even if I wasn't the poster child of popularity ....


...It wasn't till adulthood that those tendencies of mine started to really affect my abilities to cope with real life, out from under my parents care ......I struggled for decades trying to find a way to make a living for myself .....I don't do well in structured situations ...like working for big companies ....can't do that to save my life !

...I wasn't diagnosed until my 40s ..and oh my that was an eye-opener .....my very first thought was ..." well that explains a lot"

....While I went through some bad patches ....some lasting 10/20 years, underneath it all I am an good natured and happy person ....and while I remain leery of failure again ....I have bounced back from those unhappy black years to close to what I was before everything fell apart ......


....I can thank my diagnosis and medication for the past 20 some odd years .....it took a long time after my diagnosis to get my act together .....still kinda working on that .....

...BUt as difficult as I have found some of my life to have been, I haven't gone through the gut wrenching troubles that so many have .....like I say quite a lot .....I have been a very lucky person in so many ways ......compare me to a normal person and what they have accomplished and I fall quite short....ADHD is most probably the culprit there ....but compared to you folks who started life with abuse ....your starting line was way behind mine ...and I salute you for your lives ......you have done well .....

...I often wish for a magic wand .....one of the first things I would do is wave away the broken hearts of the people who started life with abusive people raising them .....and give them the security and wholesomeness that I enjoyed as a child .....


...Every child should have that ....not just the lucky ones .....
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Old 09-10-16, 11:38 PM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Have you ever been evaluated/diagnosed with anything like bipolar?
My psych suggested that I /could/ have a mild form of bipolar, but both I and my mother have not experienced me having a manic period or really anything close to it. I have looked into it before though. I've even looked into borderline personality disorder for myself, and even though I have some symptoms for that, I really don't think I have that either. In high school I leaned mostly toward potential dysthymia, but I'm a generally upbeat and optimistic/realistic person. But when I started looking at ADHD symptoms, (almost) everything made sense (particularly because I'm not outwardly hyperactive, though I think my test results would suggest the Combined type). I never fully identified with what I read about anxiety and depression, though of course symptoms vary person to person who have the same diagnosis.
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Old 09-11-16, 01:32 AM
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Re: article: women with adhd being vunerable to early adversities.

[From the link you posted]
Quote:
Women with ADHD had triple the prevalence of insomnia, chronic pain, suicidal ideation, childhood sexual abuse and generalized anxiety disorder and double the prevalence of substance abuse, current smoking, depressive disorders, severe poverty and childhood physical abuse in comparison with women without ADHD....
Out of that list, I have....
1. I've struggled with insomnia (although it's not so debilitating now that I go to sleep when my body tells me I should - even though that's often much later than for the average person.)
2. I have chronic pain
3. In the distant past I've had suicidal ideation
4. One therapist suspected I was sexually abused and another flat-out told me I had been sexually abused, I guess I never considered it as abuse because it wasn't in ways that lots of people think of as "usual" sexual abuse....now I see how it was abuse. Took time because I had to get out of the situation first before I could see what had happened
5. I have anxiety disorders (I'm anxious as a default state, even when I'm not actively thinking of something I'm anxious about I have free-floating anxiety)
6. I've struggled with low-grade depression (and sometimes bad depression but that is much rarer these days)
7. And I was physically abused as a child - young adult, but most of it happened when I was young and smaller than my parents.

I was also emotionally/mentally abused by my parents.

It didn't stop until I escaped the abuse and never looked back.

So yeah, I'd say I relate to a lot on that list!

I was definitely picked on way more than my brother, and it only got worse with age. He did go through some physical abuse when he was small, but then he became the "golden child" and could do no wrong.

And I wasn't a "bad kid" (I don't really like that term anyway) either - straight A student and didn't get in trouble at school very often and did my chores. Although sometimes I did struggle with meltdowns (I'd break things and rage) that were triggered by my parents being abusive jerks....and sometimes I would get stuck in my head and not hear when I was being told to do something. But I wasn't doing those things to be bad, it was mostly a reaction to the abuse. (Except for the not hearing things - I still have this issue and I think it is part of ADHD/autism)

But I was abused daily because....well, I was considered "weak" by them I guess. An easy target. I was a sensitive empathetic girl and that made me even more of a target.

Didn't help that my brother around when he was 15/16 started taking on my parents' traits, especially my mother's, and would manipulate them to get whatever he wanted. He was very spoiled. Whereas if I were to even bring up something like "oh hey can I please have...." I'd get severely abused for even asking. He also started treating me like he was superior to me towards the end, which is pretty sad. He'd talk down to me and be very disrespectful and rude. Think of Justin Bieber when he was a jerk and treated people like he was better than them - that's pretty much what my brother turned into towards the end. Not all the time, but enough of the time. (One of the very last hurtful things he said was that I was a "burden" - which is sad because I doubt he was the one who came up with that thought and probably got fed those words by my parents)

He was such a sweet kid, too. I guess his brain started to change and had the predisposition to become wired in the way my parents' brains were wired. I still have hope that he doesn't end up with those traits permanently.

Crossing my fingers that he doesn't end up miserable like them.

Sorry for going off on other topics....but yeah very enlightening thank you for posting Sarah.
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