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  #1  
Old 11-18-07, 08:25 AM
Er Indoors Er Indoors is offline
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Cant even argue properly!

Iv'e just watched one of my fave programs on tv ..The Big Question, which if you havn't seen it is a weekly debate session on all sorts of morality issues. I have to concentrate so hard with debates to make sure I don't miss anything as I find that despite having a huge interest in social issues, I could never get involved in a debate and am a rubbish arguer even when i feel strongly about something because my listening skills are diabolical so i tend to lose the thread. Guess this is why some ADD/ADHD sufferers feel insecure in groups..i know i do. My love of 1-1 company is not because i need the attention, it's the only way i can be totally involed 100% in the conversation without feeling inferior.
Isn't it so frustrating when you can't even argue your point effectively AARRGGH!

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  #2  
Old 11-18-07, 12:18 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

In a group I try to concentrate on what everyones saying. With so many channels/points of view, theres no room left for me to think, it clouds what I wanted to say or its too late say it. Much easier one to one, unless they keep going on, then I loose track of what I wanted to say as the topic evolves.

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I thought I was just shy, but its more that I cant keep up, so say less.
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Old 11-18-07, 01:06 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

When I argue I start going off topic pretty frequently.
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Old 11-18-07, 01:13 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

I'm hopeless at debating! I can see both sides of an issue and they make sense to me, so I can't decide which side I'm on. Then I lose track of the topic altogether.
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Old 11-18-07, 01:13 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

And because you know you are going to lose the thread, you interupt to get your point in which doesn't always go down well. Makes you appear 'random' and not in control of your thoughts/mouth. God I wish i was normal
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Old 11-18-07, 07:49 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

I know this all too well..as said by others here I tend to see both sides of the debate and in the mist of the conversation I can go off track quickily as while I'm saying one thing I'm thinking of a different perspective on what is coming out of my mouth..*sigh*..not easy. I've tried to get better with interupting people when they are speaking, I've done this all my life and until reading up on ADD a year or so ago did I realize that there was a connection. I go with Er Indoors who put it best "God I wish i was normal", Oh how many times I've uttered those words...
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Old 11-18-07, 07:59 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

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I can see both sides of an issue and they make sense to me, so I can't decide which side I'm on.
Some people struggle enormously to be able to do this.. it's sort of nice not to have to

Quote:
Then I lose track of the topic altogether.
Until this happens and your credibility goes out the window, along with your point .
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Old 11-19-07, 07:59 AM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

It really depends on the subject matter for me. there are things that I am truly passionate about and have problems keeping things in perspective and not taking things personally. But I do like to debate with someone that have differnt opinions than my own to be able to learn more about things.
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Old 11-19-07, 06:31 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NonSequitur
I'm hopeless at debating! I can see both sides of an issue and they make sense to me, so I can't decide which side I'm on. Then I lose track of the topic altogether.
Hah I do the same. I'll listen to two people aruging - they ask "Do you wanna say anything?" I respond, "Well, you're both right in different ways..."
My mom claims I'm hiding from conflict because I always appear to be "on the fence" on so many issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headsamess
In a group I try to concentrate on what everyones saying. With so many channels/points of view, theres no room left for me to think, it clouds what I wanted to say or its too late say it. Much easier one to one, unless they keep going on, then I loose track of what I wanted to say as the topic evolves.

..
I thought I was just shy, but its more that I cant keep up, so say less.
Yep, I thought I was shy too, which I am to a point... but I loose track of what I wanted to say easily in these situations too - trying to focus on everyone is overstimulating and doesnt allow room for our thoughts!

Oh and I almost forgot!! During debates about religion with my dad - he will ask for my souces... of course I forgot them. Then he proceeds to accuse me of listening to the "wrong people" or unreliable sources. Uggh!
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Old 11-20-07, 03:49 AM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

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Isn't it so frustrating when you can't even argue your point effectively AARRGGH!
Ohh but I can argue my point very effectively - and I can even tell you how I learned.

On-line - where the exchange is not synchronous{not in real time} - on forums like this one I have all the time I need to think about what I want to say look up sources references ect .

It took some time but this eventually transfered over and increased my ability to debate face to face - because now I am used to challenges to my personal opinion it doesn't upset me like it used to so I do not loose my ability to think actually I have trained my self in such a manner I actually think better because it is stimuli and my brain knows what to do with stimuli - I do after all have ADD.

Plus doing debates on-line I have read literally hundreds of reports research and documents often I will already know the information when the topic comes up again in person.


Quote:
It really depends on the subject matter for me. there are things that I am truly passionate about and have problems keeping things in perspective and not taking things personally.
Debating for me is all about learning how to productively channel my energy so that feeling of being attacked is used productively - research hyper focus Now that "feeling" for me is almost like a rush but it is like a huge personal challenge - of self control the greater the charge the more focus I become but part of over coming is over coming self and maintaining control - not of the conversation but of myself The only way I see myself actually loosing a debate is to loose control of myself. {although one or two have actually given me a run for my money in the private debate area here - ADDers can be harder to debate than NTers}


Naturally an opposing opinion is going to feel like an attack because my opinions are personal to me but I have learned to channel that energy as the personal attack is only an illusion because my personal opinion is being challenged - well normally it is an illusion - I have missed a few post that were actually meant to be personal attacks and had to be told by other staff members {nope no ADD here at all} Okay some things I learn too well - {shrug} better than not learning at all. Usually my response is such many times reacting as a staff member instead of a peer would have been easier on the attacker and less embarrassing. {oops} Well I am the only staff member left that was asked to join staff because I could debate some pretty hard people without getting my knickers in a knot - and now I have just revealed how.
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Old 11-20-07, 05:35 AM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

Wow,,,after reading most of the posts here I feel like saying something silly like..............how can so many people at one time,,,,in one thread,,,be telling my story....... I'm a bit overwhelmed

Maybe I should wait until this feeling wears off before I post anymore. I have to 'unstick' the keys on my keyboard anyway.........
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Old 11-20-07, 06:18 AM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

I agree Meadd823 that it's much easier to debate effectively by writing (as opposed to actually discussing) but then it's going to be because you are not relying on memory and wit. You have time to absorb and study the facts as you say. But I'm not sure that even stimulating subject matter makes it any easier as Lunaslobo says. I mean at the moment I would love a debate with the Minister for education as i have some very strong views on his policies regarding 16-18 year olds and on a 1-1 basis i might just muddle through but if he said "yeah join the GROUP discussion I would run a mile!

Anyway the advice of transferring cyber debate skills into real-time sounds like a good idea so i will give it a try. Right, who's up for a debate??
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Old 11-21-07, 02:14 AM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

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Right, who's up for a debate??
I am almost always up for a debate - we have a private debate area here if you are interested in the pass word simply PM me. Because the area is private we do not have the topic bans on things such as religion and politics like there is else where on the forum.
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Old 11-21-07, 12:01 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

I think for me seeing both sides comes from practicing Tai Chi and reading about Taoism. Or maybe I've been that way all along and this makes it legitimate. If someone suggests I'm sitting on the fence, or I don't want to ger into a debate, I can just say something mystical like "what is the sound of one hand clapping?" and walk away and let them wonder.
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Old 11-21-07, 12:48 PM
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Re: Cant even argue properly!

Debating has never been one of my strong points either. People are just supposed to know that I am always right and shouldn't even attempt to argue with me...lol

I have awful comes back too. I'd like to think it's because I am just a kind hearted person and don't like to be mean to people. However I think it's more of an ADHD or processing thing instead!
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