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  #46  
Old 10-13-14, 10:59 AM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

Also we've a neat tie in to the whole metabolic story of ketosis/fat supporting neural rearrangement rather than carb/protein ... ... ie that we're allowed to see how a distress free environment 'd normalize appetite regulation to ketosis resulting in increased neural sensitivity through forcing neural network rather than neural 'tower' structure formation.

So ... ... sensitivity would be evolutionarily favoured ie increased survival prospects - but it goes well beyond that
- because we're literally jumping from increased likelihood of survival through increased sensitivity to just enjoying the sensitivity (information) ie to having the sensitivity as a feed-in to a reward mechanism.

That's pretty neat; it;s a total paradigm shift - and we can now draw a line under genetic/epigenetic evolution continuing - and just see a fair society - distress-free as conducive to a certain pattern of neural network formation which equates to quality - personal quality in whichever 'avenue' one happens to train one's neural network.

Lots of standard areas for development of this facility - but it looks as though one of the facilities we can develop may be of telepathic transfer of information.
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  #47  
Old 10-13-14, 11:09 AM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

Summarising

Blood glucose elevation (pleasure/pain) -> Ketosis preferring (ADDer) (quality centric)

see HDAC inhibitor info on reducing growth / promoting neural rearrangement (valproic acid (=HDACi = the same in effect as ketone body) model of neural rearrangement to complexity)

ADDer = Highly sensitive <- evolutionarily selected and observed in animal kingdom also - so makes sense

Blood glucose elevation -> associated with genome evolution
Ketosis -> associated with neural rearrangement required in generation of internal quality sensing neural machinery
Problem - Highly stressed easily distressed in this world - stress relief = blood glucose elevation - big problems -> diabesity epidemic.

So - general point we're observing the emergence of a sensory quality sensing type in the middle of a materialistic paradigm - resulting in disease disorder to emotional dyregylation, dysautonomia, endocrine system resistance syndromes

- all that's required is a fair society for people to live in - thereby all downstream consequences of our new sensitivity (ie the adverse ones) will be lost - allowing the positive ones - ie to develop personal/species quality to shine forth.

-*-

Society needs to facilitate instead of impede personal human development towards quality; simply possible by introducing global voluntaryism ie you only do when it brings it you personal reward so to do.
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  #48  
Old 10-13-14, 09:46 PM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unmanagable View Post
I'll likely go around my a** to get to my elbow in trying to express my thoughts here, so please be patient and kind as I roll with it.

One of the most mind blowing things I've learned in my adventures in pursuing overall wellness, and trying to figure my own brain and body out, is that we function in basically two modes, fight or flight (fear driven) and/or rest and digest (awareness minus impulsive reaction/mindful response). Gives a whole new meaning, in my mind, to the saying I often hear that kids have two speeds, wide open and off.

Prolonged and repetitive internal worry about things creates a constant fight or flight state, and all of our bodily functions are most definitely affected during the time we are stuck in that cycle. But we are so used to our bodies just taking care of stuff we fail to notice little details and often shun our own instincts in favor of the opinion of another, or if there's no immediate physical consequence, we assume there's no problem.

I've been working hard at undoing a lifetime of living in fight or flight mode. Deep breathing to invite more oxygen into my system, stillness, recognizing and allowing emotions then letting them go, mindful eating of nurturing and living whole foods, exercising on purpose for fun, sunshine and nature, and finally learning the critical importance of learning to love myself has finally given me a chance to learn how the rest and digest mode feels. What a much more pleasant experience, although I still struggle big time at times, it feels like a healthier struggle, if that makes any sense.

The way it was explained to me makes me envision the amygdala as sort of a bird on the look out....constantly in flight and scanning it's environment, on guard for any possible threat, ready to pounce, constant re-evaluation of everything, and can easily get stuck in one spot or break a wing, making it damn near impossible to get back out of a big rut.

Combine that constant brain activity with an overwhelming and unhealthy intake of mostly synthetically processed artificial foods and beverages, artificial lighting, cyclic negative thinking, no fresh air, little to no purposeful movement or play, very limited/no meaningful outlets to feel necessary relaxation, side effects of multiple meds to attempt to address the issues, repeatedly having our self-worth squashed, continual depleted nutrients, etc., etc. and yikes!

Regardless of what all we think we know based on the words, stats, and studies of others, all of that chaos is going on behind the scenes inside of our bodies constantly, and it kicks the whole fight or flight into turbo repeatedly, and our innards continue to be run ragged while we keep trying to figure out what the heck could be wrong. And the worry continues............

Your post keeps reminding me of this video called, "The Divided Brain", by Iain McGilchrist.





P
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  #49  
Old 10-13-14, 11:31 PM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

Quote:
Sensory (-SB_UK)
I think I agree that experiences, "epigenetically shape" the BrainMind/MindBrain by way of sensory systems.

But I think that an affective emotional, homeostatic and sensory hypersensitive temperament originates primarily in the midbrain area.

(Focusing on emotional affects and psychological development)

Possible slight impairment due to emotional distress, occurring primarily during the early implicit (automatic) stage of brain development, before the age of 4. (Specifics depend on individual circumstances and temperament).

I think we are focusing on different levels of control.



P
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  #50  
Old 10-14-14, 07:02 AM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peripheral View Post
Your post keeps reminding me of this video called, "The Divided Brain", by Iain McGilchrist.





P
Will never get tired of that form of presentation.

Wonderful.
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  #51  
Old 10-14-14, 07:39 AM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peripheral View Post
I think I agree that experiences, "epigenetically shape" the BrainMind/MindBrain by way of sensory systems.

But I think that an affective emotional, homeostatic and sensory hypersensitive temperament originates primarily in the midbrain area.

(Focusing on emotional affects and psychological development)

Possible slight impairment due to emotional distress, occurring primarily during the early implicit (automatic) stage of brain development, before the age of 4. (Specifics depend on individual circumstances and temperament).

I think we are focusing on different levels of control.



P

Sensitivity arises in mid-brain.

The limbic system includes the hippocampal formation, amygdala, septal nuclei, cingulate cortex, entorhinal cortex, perirhinal cortex, and parahippocampal cortex.

-*-

Many neurons in the anterior cingulate gyrus (ACCg) respond both when monkeys choose a drink for themselves and when they choose to give a drink to another monkey," Platt said. "One might view these as sort of mirror neurons for the reward system." The region is active as an animal merely watches another animal receiving a reward without having one themselves.

-*-

So ... ...

reward at the level of the anterior cingulate cortex as the basis to ADHD ie feeling good when we're behaving in a moral (making other people happy) manner.

<- core basis to ADHD

and the (naturally) mechanism of emergence of an enforcedly social organism.
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  #52  
Old 10-14-14, 07:43 AM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

That idea is certainly in keeping with my experience of reward.

it's impossible to feel reward when one selfishly wins something - a certificate, race, skill ... ... there's only reward in helping other people.

So - no reward from doing nothing to help other people -> anterior cingulate cortex -> PAG -> distress -> dysutonomia/messed up endocrine system to resistance syndromes -> broken immune system -> loss of appetite regulation and affinity for stress-busting foods -> the path to an early death is sculpted.

ADHD as explained away through ascendancy of a reward mechanism which is only activated when other people are happy.

That's a kick in the teeth in this world - where other people are happy when they're kicking you in the teeth.

So the ADHD reward system in dumbo world is to lie on the floor and allow all passing people to kick you in the face without them so much as missing a step.

That's nice.
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  #53  
Old 10-14-14, 07:55 AM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

So - ADDers 'can't get no satisfaction' in a world which is fundamentally hateful ie you're in competition over everything from house prices to jobs, from grant renewals to races
- and

no satisfaction -> leads to no reward
absence of reward -> stress

stress -> dysautonomia and cortiosl resistance

stress -> reactive stress relief

eg

Quote:
Keith Richards reveals all about drugs, sex
but none of that alleviates the stress it just makes it worse.
Quote:
Now the drugs don't work. They just make you worse.
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  #54  
Old 10-14-14, 07:57 AM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

Summarising

Evolutionary emergence of a type which obtains reward only when other peoples' reward systems are being activated - therefore incentivizing engagement in halping to shape a better world.

Absence of reward (ie in a horrible world where everybody's miserable) and reactive stress.

Mid-braina basis to ADHD ?
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  #55  
Old 10-14-14, 08:34 AM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

So ... ...

if we accept that stress results whenever we do anything which isn't rewarding and the flipside that doing rewarding tasks result in a stress-less state
- then we have to ask what is rewarding.
If reward is felt when other people are (in effect) happy ... ... then one's trajectory for living life is set.

To assist in making the world a better place - and to feel a sense of reward from the happiness which people who inabit that world which you've helped to shape - feel.

So - that's neat - because I can't find anything worth achieving (ie this dumbo world's preoccupation with building one's CV) - anything worth achieving which is rewarding.

Take the onus off self and we're away.
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  #56  
Old 10-15-14, 12:13 AM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

I am unsure how to discuss the differences between..

-Epigenetic inheritance (transgenerational emotional experiences) that may result in a inherited, more emotionally sensitive temperament?

-Epigenetic prenatal and early post natal emotional experiences that may result in a more emotionally sensitive temperament and/or impairment?

-Epigenetic early emotional experiences that may result in impairment?


The PAG and VTA are located in the midbrain, below the limbic system.

I don't disagree that the limbic system is involved in "top down" emotional memory and learning, but I am thinking an inherited emotionally hypersensitive temperament from the "bottom up" would precede chronic emotional distressful experiences that may result in impairment?




P
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  #57  
Old 07-05-17, 07:04 PM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

In my own personal and purely subjective experience (though I'd bet my dog I'm not unique) apathy, ennui, and procrastination cripple me until Very Bad things on the horizon become immanent doom in my front yard; and, thus, transfigure into something concretely real.
This is what I call THE FEAR, and for a short time, my feeble Briggs and Stratton brain performs like a blown hemi burning nitromethane. The problem is that one can't live like that all the time. The fear cannot be faked, but stimulant medication is helps immensely without the crashing gear changes.
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  #58  
Old 07-06-17, 04:37 PM
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Re: Where does the FEAR response system originate in the brain?

I do not deny individual learned subjective emotional environmental experiences must also be involved.

It is interesting because objectively, I cannot live without a FEAR system, in my brain.

Without a primary FEAR system, i would never have learned to feel scared of predators and other types dangers, and would not have survived til now.

Feeling bad scared/anxious all the time is not healthy, but feeling bad scared/anxious when appropriate for survival is healthy.



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