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  #31  
Old 06-05-13, 05:28 AM
peripatetic peripatetic is offline
 
 

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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

psychosis isn't a one size fits all, however, and your blog entry has several points that make it understandable why your doctors would draw that conclusion.and that's not based on it seeming realistic or not. the other fact is that people do tend to notice someone having an episode and may well be talking more about things. just because people really are concerning selves with you more...your thought and perceptual processes can still qualify as psychotic.
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  #32  
Old 06-05-13, 03:18 PM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Quote:
psychosis isn't a one size fits all, however, and your blog entry has several points that make it understandable why your doctors would draw that conclusion.and that's not based on it seeming realistic or not. the other fact is that people do tend to notice someone having an episode and may well be talking more about things. just because people really are concerning selves with you more...your thought and perceptual processes can still qualify as psychotic.
Can you tell me more about why you think it's a psychosis?
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  #33  
Old 06-05-13, 07:53 PM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

yes i can and i'm willing to go point by point through and tell you why....but it's contingent upon this:

are you actually willing to consider it might be? taht you might've been presenting traits/behavoirs in line with psychosis?

if your mind is made up, please dno't have me take a lot of time trying to help you piece together something that you're not really open to considering.

and it's ok if you're not open to it and your mind is made up. i don't have some deep drive to convince you or anything...

i am more than willing to try to help you see how you might have an illness that is often shrouded in anosognosia by defniition and willing to do so because medication discontinuation is a problem of a magnitude that *IF* you do have it...you really...i would hope to help you find a way to spare yourself that if possible.

however...i need to konw that yo'ud truly consider and not jsut be looking to dismiss what points i might have to offer. i'm not asking you to say you'll agree with me... just that you aren't asking me to build you up a line of reasoning you have no desire to do anything but seek to dismantle.

if you are at that position of you NOT being psychotic is unfalsifiable...i.e. that there is NOTHING that would EVER persuade you or that you would even really fully consider...that's ok. maybe another day...maybe not...but please assure me that i'd not just be talking for you to have something to reject because you've already made up your mind.

hope that makes sense. x
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  #34  
Old 06-06-13, 03:18 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

I'm not ruling out the possibility of it being a psychosis, however I'm not convinced that it is a psychosis. But I do want to know the arguments of why you think it's a psychosis. That way you can persuade me more if it is a psychosis or not.
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  #35  
Old 06-06-13, 04:39 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

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Originally Posted by adhdpi View Post
The day I panicked I accidently took an overdose of dexedrine. I took 30 pills which is 150 mg (!!!!) dexedrine at once. I think I even took 60+ pills which is 300+ mg.
That is a grip of amphetamine. I won't ask how you "accidentally" take 30-60 pills. But there is this thing called stimulant psychosis, caused by taking high doses of stimulants. Consider that you were hospitalized the same day you took like a week or more worth of stimulants all at once. Are you sure there is no connection?


Also you mention "sensitization". There is an article on this, which I can post the link to, but I think you got it backwards. Sensitization works (theoretically) by taking dopamine antagonists, such as antipsychotics. These block the dopamine receptor, which theoretically causes the cells to produce more dopamine and/or dopamine receptors, to maintain homeostasis. Whereas taking dopamine agonists, such as amphtemine, would cause the reverse (desensitization), especially at high doses, leading to drug tolerance.

Caveat: I am not recommending starting or stopping any medication, or any other action, other than talking about this with your doctors.
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  #36  
Old 06-07-13, 03:41 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

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Originally Posted by adhdpi View Post
I'm not ruling out the possibility of it being a psychosis, however I'm not convinced that it is a psychosis. But I do want to know the arguments of why you think it's a psychosis. That way you can persuade me more if it is a psychosis or not.
ok. fair enough. i was just checking :-)

it might take me a bit of time to do a decent job of it, but i'll try to get to it sometime this weekend if not before.

in the meantime, take care and best to you. x

EDIT: oh...and if for some reason i wander and it slips my mind, please don't hesitate to send me a message reminding me :-) i do want to be helpful but i can forget things here and there. x
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  #37  
Old 06-07-13, 07:26 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Wow is explaining why you think I suffer from psychosis that complicated/ difficult?
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  #38  
Old 06-07-13, 09:22 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Maybe I can add in to this thread and help OP know why Peripheral believes you may have schizophrenia:

I found a good website that explains schizophrenia here:


http://www.camh.ca/en/hospital/health_information/a_z_mental_health_and_addiction_information/schizophrenia/Pages/Schizophrenia.aspx



They say “People with schizophrenia can have a range of symptoms including periods when they cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is imagined. Schizophrenia seriously disturbs the way people think, feel and relate to others.” They classify the symptoms of schizophrenia as “positive symptoms” and “negative symptoms”.

From reading your posts and the link you gave us, it does sound very much like you may have it and may not be aware of it and here’s why:

The positive symptoms are:

· delusions (fixed, false beliefs that are not consistent with the person's culture, and have no basis in fact)

· hallucinations (people hear, see, taste, smell or feel something that does not actually exist)

· disorganized thoughts (unconnected thoughts that make it impossible to communicate clearly with other people)

· disorganized mood (finding it hard to express feelings; feeling inappropriate or intense bursts of emotion; feeling empty of any emotions)

· disorganized behaviour (cannot complete everyday tasks such as bathing, dressing appropriately and preparing simple meals)

· changes in sensitivity (more sensitive and aware of other people; or withdrawn and seeming to pay no attention to others).

Negative symptoms:

· slowing of physical activity levels or, more rarely, overactivity

· reduced motivation, for example, problems finishing tasks or making long-term plans

· loss of interest in the feelings and lives of others

· less concern for personal appearance

How your account on that link/posts match up to schizophrenia:

You show signs of delusions (“Even the pentagon was discussing my cancer threatment protocol saying it had killed around 10000 cancer patients… “ It also raises red flags that when you studied flavinoids, posted it online and promoted it and then two cancer patients tried it and died dropping like they died from arsenic and then suddenly 10000 cancer patients died from it and the pentagon is out to get you. Flavinoids are found in many foods we eat and we could go into a lengthy discussion why this account sounds questionable. In fact, I've read many studies about flavinoids and other anti-oxidants components. There are a ton of studies into their benefits and possible treatments for cancer, although none are conclusive so far. )

You have experienced hallucinations- “I “saw” and felt them deploying seals to kill me.” “When I was residing in a hotel I suddenly heard “a voice.”” You then went into how the voice was your future and was actually a computer and you spoke to it through psy-waves and it told you how you were to die...

In your account there were times when there were disorganized thoughts were things that didn’t seem to make sense were together (For example, you went from talking about inattentive ADHD to about how you may have killed people with a cancer treatment to then discussing a treatment for your ADHD and then a paranoia about the hotel voice etc)

There are probably other points I’m missing but the fact that you thought a voice was your future, that the Pentagon was going to kill you and you ran away from home, being able to communicate with the voice with “phy-waves”, the computer voice could predict your futue and the blowing up the galaxy comments … all sound like schizophrenia.

I believe another symptom of schizophrenia is sometimes the patient is paranoid about the doctors and does not like the treatment and thinks they don’t need help.

Now what about your claim of ADHD?

It could be that you were diagnosed with ADHD as you have said because you do have a history of symptoms of ADHD. However, schizophrenia is something that comes to live in 1 in 100 people of the population usually in your mid-20s (it can be later in life, or teens etc). When you started showing these signs and had that panic when you overdosed on ADHD stimulants… the doctors need to go off of what they see and your history. Maybe you discussed the psychosis episode with them, and that showed clear signs to them.

Schizophrenia also causes disorganized mood, slowing of physical activity levels or, more rarely, over activity, disorganized behaviour, reduced motivation… which looks at lot at first glance like ADHD. But the things you’ve gone through is nothing like what we with ADHD go through. A lot of mental disorders at first glance look like ADHD.

Maybe you are right, you may have both ADHD and schizophrenia… or you really need to stop taking so much stimulant meds if you have just ADHD. The point is, you haven't told your doctors about the cause of the episode/ or what you did that may have triggered it. You didn't tell them about the concerta or the other drug. So all they see is the symptoms, without knowing any other underlying factors. They are trying to treat what they see that is obvious, you running and panicking and thinking the pentagon is after you... is what they saw.

Hope this helps some- schizophrenia happens to 1 in 100 people, it doesn't make you a bad person if you really have it.

Last edited by Canadian Mess; 06-07-13 at 09:35 AM.. Reason: I need to learn how to format things
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  #39  
Old 06-07-13, 09:43 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Originally Posted by adhdpi
The day I panicked I accidently took an overdose of dexedrine. I took 30 pills which is 150 mg (!!!!) dexedrine at once. I think I even took 60+ pills which is 300+ mg.

The post here says... the day you panicked (cause), you accidently took 30 pills and maybe 60+ pills (effect). That is a red flag bud, that something is wrong. Whether that be the mix of anti-physcotics and a stimulant (cause) or you had a physcotic episode unrelated to the stimulant (cause) and then took 30-60 pills of stimulant (effect).... all 3 possibilities point to something being very, very wrong and it makes a lot of sense that the doctors are concerned about you.
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  #40  
Old 06-07-13, 09:44 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

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Originally Posted by adhdpi View Post
Wow is explaining why you think I suffer from psychosis that complicated/ difficult?
For me on a good day? No. Not at all because its mapped out structurally crystal clearly in my head and I can outline it in detail point by point quite cleanly.

On a harder day? No. Not without extensive effort and even then probably an edit for clarity assist from someone who knows me well and can translate what I'm trying to say.

At the time I posted it wasn't a good day but another one will happen ;-)
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  #41  
Old 06-08-13, 10:04 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Quote:
There are probably other points I’m missing but the fact that you thought a voice was your future, that the Pentagon was going to kill you and you ran away from home, being able to communicate with the voice with “phy-waves”, the computer voice could predict your futue and the blowing up the galaxy comments … all sound like schizophrenia.
Why? Are these kind of stories common with schizophrenia?
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  #42  
Old 06-08-13, 11:31 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

yes, many points of your story are common with people who've been diagnosed with schizophrenia. that's what that guy who called me peripheral (don't worry, random new member, he's a good friend, so if you're going to mix me up with someone he's as good as any and our usernames are close now) was trying to map out in that long post eighths symptom types and matching your experiences to them. that's the entire reason i was going to post but no need to duplicate work already done.
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  #43  
Old 06-08-13, 05:33 PM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

I've been taking anti-psychotics for years. I've had just about everyone of them, and the best one that works for me is Saphris, it's sublingual and dissolves instantly under your tongue and kicks in fast. It's for extreme excitability and moodiness and also for schizophrenia. I've never had any bad side effects with it, and it's the best one I've ever tried. It controls my mood swings, and anxiety, and also helps with the crash from the Adderall.
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  #44  
Old 06-09-13, 01:42 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Actually I am not convinced that the event was fake, but I don't have the evidence that it was real either (I am in the process of trying to collect evidence).

The schizophrenia symptoms you are discussing are already known to me.

The "voices" I communicated with were intelligent. In no way did it seem fake. It really appeared that I was communicating with intelligent entities from the future. The entire happening did not seem fake.

And after all you can't be sure if it is fake or real. So I am still considering the possibility that it was real.

Regarding the sensitisation and the cancer treatment protocol (flavonoids): I can explain more about that but I only do that if you really want to know because they are more complex matters. Leave a message telling me to explain more about it if you want to know more.
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Old 06-10-13, 11:06 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by peripatetic View Post
yes, many points of your story are common with people who've been diagnosed with schizophrenia. that's what that guy who called me peripheral (don't worry, random new member, he's a good friend, so if you're going to mix me up with someone he's as good as any and our usernames are close now) was trying to map out in that long post eighths symptom types and matching your experiences to them. that's the entire reason i was going to post but no need to duplicate work already done.
Sorry, I have a really bad time with names so I usually mix people up really bad.
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