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  #1  
Old 05-30-13, 05:50 AM
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Exclamation Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

I am being forced to take antipsychotics because I panicked on the street and the docters think I am suffering from schizophrenia. I took antipsychotics for a year now and even thought I never panicked again I am against it. The worst thing about antipsychotics is that I believe that they block the concerta I am taking (they took me off concerta as well thinking it may worsen schizophrenia, but I found another doctor who secretly put me back on). Since taking antipsychotics (xeplion injection) I believe the concerta is working less effectively. Since antipsychotics block dopamine I am also afraid it may make my ADHD worse, is that true?

I want to be off antipsychotics but the doctor keeps convincing me I should be on and tells me again and again that my life's problems (concentration problems as well) are due to schizophrenia. They don't even want to listen to my explenation that my problems could be due to the ADD instead. I also do not think I have schizophrenia. I read everything about it and do not think I have it.

It's a difficult situation since they keep me on antipsychotics and they solely focus on schizophrenia and the doctor seems not to care about ADD. Maybe it's because my doctor treats schizophrenia, but not ADD.

I am afraid the antipsychotics kill my dopamine neurons or make them function worse (I read about this possibility) and worsen ADHD on the long term, which is really bad!

I accidently pressed submit button twice since the page was frozen for a long time.
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Old 05-30-13, 06:08 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

my first question is why are you continuing to see a doctor you dont agree with? Are you court ordered to take antipsychotics? If you feel the diagnosis is inaccurate you should be seeing a different doctor for a second opinion. 1 episode of panic should not constitute a schizophrenia diagnosis. However "secretly" getting a stimulant from a different doctor can cause its own problems and make you seem dishonest. If your country has any type of prescription drug monitoring the doctors can see what you are taking and who is prescribing it.
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Old 05-30-13, 06:15 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

I was court ordered to take antipsychotics. Basically I panicked and they quickly decided that I might be dangerous to myself or others even thought I am not. Then (this was a year ago) I was hospitalized.

A couple of doctors have decided I had schizophrenia.

Now the ACT team is monitoring my medication and it's quite difficult to quit seeing the doctor. I asked for a doctor specialised in ADHD instead but they did not listen to me.

Today I am forcing them to lower my antipsychotic medication xeplion (75 mg to 50 mg). Later I might try to force them to stop medicating me if ofcourse I don't panick in the meanwhile and get hospitalized and court ordered again.
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Old 05-30-13, 06:50 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

They do basically the opposite thing ADHD meds do, so I think the answer is yes. But I don't know the details.
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Old 05-30-13, 08:19 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

I had an appointment today. They told me I am free to lower my dosage or to stop antipsychotics even though it's against their advice. I asked them to lower my xeplion dosage and they agreed even though it wasn't adviced to do so.

However, they tell me that no doctor will ever prescribe me stimulants as they worsen schizophrenia and they tell me that stimulants will really, really mess me up.

But they are completely wrong about that: I took concerta 54/72 mg for about half a year now and it never has caused any problems!

They also told me that I cannot have ADD and I have schizophrenia instead and that this is a fact. They tell me that multiple doctors think I do not suffer from ADD, but schizophrenia instead. They tell me the concentration problems are a result of negative symptoms of schizophrenia.

How can they be so sure? I was officially diagnosed with ADD some time ago and I have used concerta with success (even though it did not normalize my concentration problems, but concerta is not a miracle cure). They tell me that stimulants did not work or even worked countraproductive and that this indicates that I do not suffer from ADD. However, that is not true. I did have some success with stimulants even though it didn't normalize my concentration difficulties. I mean I still have problems with concentration with add meds even though it does seem to work a bit. The shrink does not seem to believe me.

Last edited by adhdpi; 05-30-13 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 05-31-13, 02:18 PM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

unsure i can get to all of your concerns/points, so saying at the outset:

when you say you "panicked on the street"...i believe you. what you're not saying is what you DID when you panicked. because you don't end up with a schizophrenia diagnosis and on depot injections after being hospitalized because you just panicked internally. there were some actions/behaviors taken/exhibited and therein lies the key to why they're diagnosing you with schizophrenia.

you don't have to post here, or anywhere, more detail on what happened, but if you want to really understand why you have that diagnosis...taking a good hard look at what actions/behaviors you exhibited and what you migth've said or done...THAT is why you got that diagnosis. i can appreciate why you don't want to divulge what happened here, but please examine that for yourself and get a better understanding of why you got that diagnosis before you discontinue/discount it because...

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Originally Posted by adhdpi View Post
I had an appointment today. They told me I am free to lower my dosage or to stop antipsychotics even though it's against their advice. I asked them to lower my xeplion dosage and they agreed even though it wasn't adviced to do so.
you are playing with fire.

Quote:
However, they tell me that no doctor will ever prescribe me stimulants as they worsen schizophrenia and they tell me that stimulants will really, really mess me up.
this is true and untrue, from what i've seen/known. yes, you can have both and get prescribed stimulants, but it's kinda like lithium/other mood stabilizers for bipolar 1: you have to be stabilized FIRST with respect to mood/psychosis, and ONLY AFTER THAT would you add stimulant medication.

and let's be frank: negative symptoms of schizophrenia look a whole ******* lot like depression; cognitive symptoms look a lot like ADHD, paranoia and certain traits look a lot like OCD/anxiety...there's a reason it can often serve as a trump card diagnosis of sorts.

but the fact is, IF you are prone to psychotic breaks *without* any medication at all...i.e. if you had a break when not on any meds...then simply discontinuing antipsychotics will set you up to have another. and another. and another. if you were to stop antipsychotics AND continue stimulant medication....you WILL **** YOURSELF UP.

and as much as you might think adhd symptoms are tough on your life/difficult to manage...that is nothing compared to repeated hospitalizations/breaks and the toll that will take on your life, your health, and frankly your "life outcome."

i fully recognize the difficulty in accepting diagnosis and there's a thing called anosognisia whereby you really don't believe you're ill...but IF you have the wherewithal to think twice about this is strongly encourage you to not make this decision to discontinue injections lightly because much like a hardboiled egg, you can't uncrack that shell and repeated cracks will take a toll you can't even imagine from your vantage point.

Quote:
But they are completely wrong about that: I took concerta 54/72 mg for about half a year now and it never has caused any problems!
um...except the whole panicking in teh street thing...yeah?

Quote:
They also told me that I cannot have ADD and I have schizophrenia instead and that this is a fact. They tell me that multiple doctors think I do not suffer from ADD, but schizophrenia instead. They tell me the concentration problems are a result of negative symptoms of schizophrenia.
well...that's not corroborated by everyone's experience, but you can perhaps get a second opinion. lying to them about having a second practitioner prescribing you medication is NOT the way to navigate this.

in my opinion you need to get real honest with SOMEONE who is a medical professional and you need to stop playing pharmacist yourself thinking you can figure it out yourself better than they can. if you could...you wouodn't've panicked, yes? you wouldn't've been hospitalized to begin with, and that you got put on depot injections after your first break...that IS telling. clearly you haven't been able to handle it. which is fine...there's no shame in not being able to handle your ****. but don't fool yourself into thinking that was some one time deal that you can now navigate without medication or, worse with ONLY stimulant medication.

i know a lot of people who discontinue but only who discontinue everything at once. i don't know anyone who ONLY keeps stimulant medication who's been put on antipsychotics but i agree with your doctors: you are setting yourself up for peril. big time.

Quote:
How can they be so sure? I was officially diagnosed with ADD some time ago and I have used concerta with success (even though it did not normalize my concentration problems, but concerta is not a miracle cure). They tell me that stimulants did not work or even worked countraproductive and that this indicates that I do not suffer from ADD. However, that is not true. I did have some success with stimulants even though it didn't normalize my concentration difficulties. I mean I still have problems with concentration with add meds even though it does seem to work a bit. The shrink does not seem to believe me.
how they're so sure rests in what actions/speech/behaviors you exhibited with that whole "panicking in the street" thing as well as what you said/did/presented on intake at the hospital. like i said, i don't expect you to divulge detials on that but recognize for yourself there's a lot more going on than you internally panicked. that was how you felt and what you did...but what did others perceive you doing? what actions did you take as a result of feeling that way? what did you say? therein lies your answer.

i realize my response may come off as blunt or harsh and that is and isn't my intention. i have nothing but compassion for you in your situation. at the same time, you're asking questions on a forum where the majority of people have little to no experience with psychosis, much less hospitalizations from and depot injection antipsychotics. anyone supporting/validating your discontinuation without a fuller picture of what that "panic" looked like and the ramifications of psychotic breaks and how medication discontinuation plays a role in that (and surely how continuing stimulants unchecked would almost undoubtedly exacerbate it) is doing so *because* of lacking that information and it's putting them in a bit of an unfair position.

best wishes to you and i hope this is useful information fo ryou to consider as you're navigating these issues.

Last edited by peripatetic; 05-31-13 at 02:33 PM..
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Old 05-31-13, 02:34 PM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

I dont have much to add to the excellent advice Peri gave you. If you are on anti psychotics, you have them for a good reason and it could be extremely dangerous (for yourself or for others, depending on what happened) to stop taking them or even lower the dosage.
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Old 06-03-13, 05:01 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Ok thank you for that advice.

Quote:
But they are completely wrong about that: I took concerta 54/72 mg for about half a year now and it never has caused any problems! um...except the whole panicking in teh street thing...yeah?
That panicking was longer then a year ago. And it probably wasn't caused by concerta.

I took concerta for 6 months without f***ing myself up. Sometimes I even take 108 mg concerta on a day without any problems what so ever.

However, if I stop antipsychotics I may get a panick attack again. I am not sure. Because I got a second panick attack when I quit taking medications and they took me to mental hospital again. This is why I don't want to quit antipsychotics completely. If I get panick attack again they will take me to mental hospital again and find out that I am taking concerta and they may order my doctor to stop it.

The day that I panicked I ran fleeing and calling for help. Why? Well, that is a long story, but one thing is sure: I was completely panicked. I thought that my life was at danger. I am extremely afraid of dying and I thought I was going to die so that is why I panicked very severely. The ambulance came and took me away. They took me by force because they thought I was having some kind of psychosis I think.

The day I panicked I accidently took an overdose of dexedrine. I took 30 pills which is 150 mg (!!!!) dexedrine at once. I think I even took 60+ pills which is 300+ mg. However, I did not panick because of the dexedrine, it was something else that I panicked from which is a long story that you will not believe. Very complicated. I felt my life was going to end soon and that was why I panicked severely.

I also took quercetin + vitamin c, which I thought could counter the toxic effect of taking such a high dosage. I thought it would counter the toxic effect so I would stay well even when taking 300+ mg of dexedrine. Well, I did not get any side effects from taking 300+ mg dexedrine so maybe it worked. The doctor did said my heart rate was high though, but I think it was the panick (I was completely surrounded by nurses who tried to constrain me so ofcourse I was panicking).

When thinking about the event I believe that even that dosage did not worsen my psychosis (if I have psychosis).

The strange thing is I don't think I have schizophrenia because I do not seem to have the symptoms.

Last edited by adhdpi; 06-03-13 at 05:24 AM..
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Old 06-03-13, 05:07 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

If you took 300mg of dexedrine I can almost guarantee you panicked because of it.

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Ok thank you for that advice.



That panicking was longer then a year ago. And it probably wasn't caused by concerta.

I took concerta for 6 months without f***ing myself up. Sometimes I even take 108 mg concerta on a day without any problems what so ever.

However, if I stop antipsychotics I may get a panick attack again. I am not sure. Because I got a second panick attack when I quit taking medications and they took me to mental hospital again. This is why I don't want to quit antipsychotics completely. If I get panick attack again they will take me to mental hospital again and find out that I am taking concerta and they may order my doctor to stop it.

The day that I panicked I ran fleeing and calling for help. Why? Well, that is a long story, but one thing is sure: I was completely panicked. The ambulance came and took me away. They took me by force because they thought I was having some kind of psychosis I think.

The day I panicked I accidently took a overdose of dexedrine. I took 30 pills which is 300 mg (!!!!) dexedrine at once. However, I did not panick because of the dexedrine, it was something else that I panicked from which is a long story that you will not believe. Very complicated.

The strange thing is I don't think I have schizophrenia because I do not seem to have the symptoms.
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Old 06-03-13, 05:38 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

No I'm sure it isn't because I panicked without concerta/ dexedrine and antipsychotics later (I refused antipsychotics, but did not take any concerta as it wasn't allowed back then).

Also, I know where that panick came from and even though the dexedrine might have excerbated it a little bit, it really wasn't the source. The main source of why I was panicking is because I thought I was going to die. Why? Well, that is a long story that you wouldn't believe. It could be that there was a hallucination/ delusion that triggered this but I am not sure.

Can a hallucination/ delusion trigger that you think you could die and as such cause extreme panick?

I had an experience prior to that panick that might be a hallucination/ delusion, however I am not sure.
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Old 06-03-13, 05:48 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

Quote:
you are playing with fire.


Why? Because I could go into panick again?
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Old 06-03-13, 09:09 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

I could explain exactly why I thought I was going to die and panicked as a result, but that is a long story and no-one would believe it I think. If I tell the story you would think that I was indeed psychotic I think.
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Old 06-03-13, 11:27 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

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Why? Because I could go into panick again?
because if what you're calling panick is a psychotic break having those repeatedly takes an enormous toll on your brain, to include cognitive functioning, and every time you land in the hospital again as the result of one your overall life funcitoning diminishes considerably. you do not want to decompensate. you really don't. trust me on this.
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Old 06-03-13, 11:28 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

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Can a hallucination/ delusion trigger that you think you could die and as such cause extreme panick?
yes, absolutely.
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Old 06-03-13, 11:31 AM
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Re: Do antipsychotics make ADHD worse or make stimulants work worse

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I could explain exactly why I thought I was going to die and panicked as a result, but that is a long story and no-one would believe it I think. If I tell the story you would think that I was indeed psychotic I think.
No offense, but that means that you probably were, during your "panic". Be reasonable in your self-assessment.
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