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  #1  
Old 04-24-09, 11:17 PM
psymonkey psymonkey is offline
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Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

So last summer I went on a cyclical Ketogenic diet for weightlifting. What I discovered was that while in Ketosis, my ADD was nil. Anyone else ever experienced this?
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  #2  
Old 04-25-09, 08:49 AM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

I have, many have much better concentration on low carbs
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Old 04-25-09, 04:27 PM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

I experienced the exact opposite when I tried to follow a low-carb plan. I was lethargic and my mind felt cloudy. Thinking was difficult and I didn't have the energy to try. I don't know why I subjected myself to that. I can maintain a healthy weight quite well on a balanced diet that includes fruit and whole grains, as well as protein and fat.

Some people swear by a low-carb diet. That's great for them, but it's not for everyone.
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Old 11-13-10, 07:47 PM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

I always thought I was more together on a Ketogenic diet. It addressed much of what makes my mind and actions a problem...But keeping up with the diet was its own problem. It costs more and you have to be a bit obsessive with food. Restaurants are tough. And I hate having to explain it people, especially since most are totally prejudiced against it.

For everyone who has tried it and failed: the transition part is tough. And this can take nearly 2 weeks. I can do the switch in about 3 days. Once I am switched, my sugar cravings are gone and I can focus much more easily and more clearly.
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Old 11-19-10, 04:43 PM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

I did better on Atkins when I was trying to lose weight, unfortunately I can't stick to diet, so I'm still tubby and still without the benefit with my ADHD of a ketogenic diet.
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Old 12-02-13, 05:38 PM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

I would love to try it, but I am really thin as it is. I wish there was a way to cut out carbs without becoming skeletal.
If anyone has advice it would be greatly appreciated.
I just avoid gluten, and potatoes when I can, I don't consume sodas, cereal, bread... on a regular basis. My brain works somewhat better.
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Old 12-04-13, 10:29 AM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fionagrape View Post
I would love to try it, but I am really thin as it is. I wish there was a way to cut out carbs without becoming skeletal.
If anyone has advice it would be greatly appreciated.
I just avoid gluten, and potatoes when I can, I don't consume sodas, cereal, bread... on a regular basis. My brain works somewhat better.
Cold-pressed oils, nuts and seeds !
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Old 12-04-13, 10:34 AM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psymonkey View Post
So last summer I went on a cyclical Ketogenic diet for weightlifting. What I discovered was that while in Ketosis, my ADD was nil. Anyone else ever experienced this?
Standard ketosis - lots of animal product consumption - doesn't sound healty
Vegan ketosis - hard.
Vegetable ketosis - really, really hard - maybe the right way to do it (fibre converted to SCFAs) - but the hardest diet to hold down. It's just veggie fibre.

I think the answer is very low GI (not zero GI) vegan ketosis (way easier than vegetable ketosis)
CP oils, low GI veggies, nuts, seeds ... ...

- with 2 or 3 hours exercise a day

- since at about 1 - 2 hrs into running/cycling we drop into ketosis.

Catch ?
Who has the time !!

I know.


Will it help ADHD - not able to exercise due to inflammation - will adopt that lifestyle asap have feet and hands back.

Using the diet alone - OK
- however ADHD will return as soon as stressed.

Stress operates through fluctuating blood glucose levels
- ketosis maintains blood glucose rock steady

- there's sense to ketosis helping ... ... however - when stressed (ADDers are hyper-stressable) - blood glucose fluctuations occur.

Even in ketosis ? Yes.
See Jimmy Moore's n=1 keto expt. - where he shows his blood glucose in ketosis waggles out of control under stress.

So - are you suggesting that vegan low GI foods which do not affect blood glucose levels are as good as an out-and-out permanent state of vegan ketosis ?
Well - it's certainly easier to hold down - but I do really like the health benefits of beta-hydroxybutyrate.

I don't yet know the answer - routine fasting would get us into ketosis ... ... but as mentioned above - there's a 2 week transition period ... ... and being constantly in transition isn't a good thing.

I really need to know whether it's permanent ketosis which is the optimal state for ADDers also.
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Last edited by SB_UK; 12-04-13 at 10:49 AM..
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  #9  
Old 12-04-13, 11:11 AM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

Bit confused - and so repeating.

1.Ketosis - seems like a good idea but animal product ketosis is associated with health problems (nutritionfacts.org).
2.So - vegan ketosis is our route - will require drinking MCT/EVOO oil.

However - I think we may be able to go into ketosis via gut fermentation of veggie fibre into SCFAs.
This strikes me as the most efficient (from the perspective of nature and not our greedy selves) of doing it.

3.What worries me about low GI low carb non-ketogenic vegan, even if with exercise and fasting - is that we're going to be bouncing in and out of ketosis.
I think the bouncing may provide us with mental fog issues.

4.So - no to non-ketosis ?
Well - I think we're designed to eat carbs in Summer, put on weight and then use that weight via ketosis in Winter.
IE to have periods of non-ketosis and then periods of ketosis.

We've full access to every food all the time
- nature just hasn't prepared us for that.

-*-

What's your best guess ?
I wish I could nail this one.

I know that the extremely healthy monks are often in ketosis (paper in pubmed) - but I need to know if they're constantly in ketosis (very easy expt!).

If they are - then that's the state I think we must be in.
If they're not - then bouncing between the two states is OK - as long as we're in a zero DIstress environment and our carbs are low GI - so we maintain a rock steady blood glucose level.

Anything else ?
Personally I think powering off fibre (via the gut microbiome) is really elegant - ie to generate a 'farm' on the inside -
fibre is so easy to access, can be generated year round
- that's the most elegant solution to the problem ie energy generation from gut fermentation of fibre.

And for the future ?
We're definitely heading for powering offa' the sun via melanin (see SCFA production from melanized fungae to gamma radiation (sun/moon))
... but that's not quite yet - I think ???
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Old 12-04-13, 11:14 AM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

Bit confused - and so repeating.

1.Ketosis - seems like a good idea (pro-GABA, pro-mitochondrial and a HDAC inhibitor (see wikiP/HDAC inhibitor)) but animal product ketosis is associated with health problems (see nutritionfacts.org).

2.So - vegan ketosis is our route - will require drinking MCT/EVOO oil.

However - I think we may be able to go into ketosis via gut fermentation of veggie fibre into SCFAs.
This strikes me as the most efficient (from the perspective of nature and not our greedy selves) of doing it.
Just seen a paper which shows that SCFA production in the gut is reduced by fat consumption - meaning that standard vegan ketosis (using CP oil) may get in the way of us generating our own SCFAs from fibre (vegetable ketosis).

3.What worries me about low GI low carb non-ketogenic vegan, even if with exercise and fasting - is that we're going to be bouncing in and out of ketosis.
I think the bouncing may provide us with mental fog issues.

4.So - no to non-ketosis ?
Well - I think we're designed to eat carbs in Summer, put on weight and then use that weight via ketosis in Winter.
I've noticed that it's realtively common for people to podge out as Summer ends - and then to cut back as Summer kicks off.
IE to have periods of non-ketosis and then periods of ketosis.

We've full access to every food all the time
- nature just hasn't prepared us for that.

-*-

What's your best guess ?
I wish I could nail this one.

I know that the extremely healthy monks are often in ketosis (paper in pubmed) - but I need to know if they're constantly in ketosis (very easy expt!).

If they are - then that's the state I think we must be in.
If they're not - then bouncing between the two states is OK - as long as we're in a zero DIstress environment and our carbs are low GI - so we maintain a rock steady blood glucose level.

Anything else ?
Personally I think powering off fibre (via the gut microbiome) is really elegant - ie to generate a 'farm' on the inside -
fibre is so easy to access, can be generated year round
- that's the most elegant solution to the problem ie energy generation from gut fermentation of fibre.

And for the future ?
We're definitely heading for powering offa' the sun via melanin (see SCFA production from melanized fungae to gamma radiation (sun/moon))
... but that mechanism's not quite there yet - I think ???
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Last edited by SB_UK; 12-04-13 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 12-04-13, 11:18 AM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

Here's the idea.

Quote:
Fluctuating glucose levels have a greater adverse effect on neuronal cell energy regulation mechanisms than either sustained ...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22565596
Quote:
Originally Posted by REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT
Cell mitochondrial activity (MTT) was moderately decreased in constant high glucose, but markedly decreased following 24 and 48 h of cyclical glucose fluctuations.
Can be done with carbs as long as they're low GI (eg veggies) and we're not DIstressed.
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Last edited by SB_UK; 12-04-13 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 12-04-13, 11:31 AM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

So - I'm finding that I become really sick (stomach cramp) if I mix veggie fibre with MCT oil.

Athos monks restrict EVOO - so it could be because fat intake disables their body's own farm from working.

I can either eat one or the other.

What am I thinking ?

Some sorta' competition between fat consumed and biomic fibre fermented fat ?

The bugs don't want you to take in MCT oil ?
Haven't checked MUFA oil.
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Last edited by SB_UK; 12-04-13 at 11:43 AM..
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Old 12-04-13, 11:51 AM
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Re: Ketosis as ADHD treatment?

So my conclusion from the above'd be:

Unlimited carb intake (as long as it's zero GI ie non-starchy veggies) + fasting + long distance exercise + NO DIstress

- so blood glucose levels are retained steady and so ketosis is regularly entered.

Maybe ?? Bouncing in and out of ketosis won't result in brain fog - as long as blood glucose levels are kept steady.

I don't know the answer to this question just yet though - still can't full work out whether we need to be in complete ketosis or in variable ketosis as long as blood glucose levels are constant.

Really need daily ketosis data on Mount Athos monks
- strongest suspicion that the dietary pattern we'll settle into, in the absence of DI$tre$$ - will be physiologically optimal ie that blood glucose fluctuations courtesy of DI$tre$$ are the major reason for mitochondrial/neural etc dysfunction.
Quote:
Cell mitochondrial activity (MTT) was moderately decreased in constant high glucose, but markedly decreased following 24 and 48 h of cyclical glucose fluctuations.
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ADHD understood - simple matter of defining purpose (morality) of mind
See Stabile 'enforced moral consistency' ~15 years ago, nothing else since has been of any relevance to ADHD.

Last edited by SB_UK; 12-04-13 at 12:17 PM..
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