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  #1  
Old 08-27-18, 05:03 AM
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Russell Barkley

In the mid 1990s, Gretchen LeFever Watson, a practising psychologist in south east Virginia began a program of ADHD research that included epidemiologic surveys. This research documented 15% rates of ADHD diagnosis and drug treatment in her community. Diagnosis rates also slammed and attacked by Keith Conners and Allen Frances. Upon hearing of this, Russell Barkley intervened and struck back, asserting that too few people were being diagnosed and medicated for ADHD. He visited the campus where Watson worked. Barkley's visit and actions resulted in Watson being dismissed from her position. Watson's community intervention programme, which was non-pharma based and had been effective, was dismantled.

What do you make of that?
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Old 08-27-18, 08:44 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Uh, not to be insensitive or anything but it was like 20 years ago... what are you getting at?
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Old 08-27-18, 08:48 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

I dont understand...
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Old 08-27-18, 09:28 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberkeley View Post
In the mid 1990s, Gretchen LeFever Watson, a practising psychologist in south east Virginia began a program of ADHD research that included epidemiologic surveys. This research documented 15% rates of ADHD diagnosis and drug treatment in her community. Diagnosis rates also slammed and attacked by Keith Conners and Allen Frances. Upon hearing of this, Russell Barkley intervened and struck back, asserting that too few people were being diagnosed and medicated for ADHD. He visited the campus where Watson worked. Barkley's visit and actions resulted in Watson being dismissed from her position. Watson's community intervention programme, which was non-pharma based and had been effective, was dismantled.

What do you make of that?

What do I make of it?
1) Barkley is someone I think many people find rather abrasive, someone who would likely drive people in the opposite direction. (Yes, he is supposed to be on my side!)



2) The idea of ADHD undermines many of the principals of the education system and the justice system. It scares people-- especially people who do not have the processing power to consider it seriously. It introduces a whole new area of "diminished responsibility". Even Alexander Crichton commented in 1798 of a peculiarity of the group that we would now call ADHD. He commented that even the threat of a whipping could not induce us to endure the dry nature of Greek or Latin language education.

However many people believe that all that is needed to ensure a good education is sufficiently harsh treatment, and while this group is large in numbers they lack the IQ to reconsider their ideas in the light of new information (even when that new information is 200 years + old)!
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Old 08-27-18, 09:30 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

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Originally Posted by BrandyDW View Post
Uh, not to be insensitive or anything but it was like 20 years ago... what are you getting at?

20 years old? Younger than my children!
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Old 08-27-18, 09:55 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

I haven't made up my mind yet on Russel Barkley or his theories and I'd never heard of Watson. I wanted to read more about her methods but the first link that caught my eye was the article below written by her.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/piloton...12204.amp.html

Anyone who makes such bold claims ajd cites zero sources or any other kind of evidence for them (the only reference she provides for anything is her own article) has no credibility.
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Old 08-27-18, 08:50 PM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
I haven't made up my mind yet on Russel Barkley or his theories and I'd never heard of Watson. I wanted to read more about her methods but the first link that caught my eye was the article below written by her.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/piloton...12204.amp.html

Anyone who makes such bold claims ajd cites zero sources or any other kind of evidence for them (the only reference she provides for anything is her own article) has no credibility.

Her statement about the risk and abuse potential of the stimulants is a huge overestimate-- and I guess referenced from a scientology site

this is more realistic:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...the_Population


That study assigns a harms index of less than 1 for methylphenidate when used recreationally (which we, of course do not endorse- however this is presumably for unsupervised use).

The next point is that most of the older stimulants are of very low value to drug companies- so apart from Vyvanse, Strattera and Concerta there is not much point in talking them up.


It is true that the syndrome is clinically defined, but she fails to recognize the amount of research that has been done in to it.
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  #8  
Old 08-27-18, 09:16 PM
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Re: Russell Barkley

This is of interest:
https://link.springer.com/content/pd...013-9244-x.pdf

Shooting the Messenger: The Case of ADHD Gretchen LeFever Watson • Andrea Powell Arcona •
David O. Antonuccio • David Healy



It describes what was happening- that Watson was involved in investigating exceptionally high rates of ADHD diagnosis, and in developing diversion programs with classroom based interventions altering discipline and teaching methods with good result.


Quote:

The Allegation of Scientific Misconduct
Although LeFever was never allowed to see the anonymous and type-written allegation of scientific misconduct that was lodged against her, she was informed that the gist of the allegation was that she had intentionally inflated rates of ADHD diagnosis and treatment to suit her own anti- medication agenda.

This sort of thing absolutely does happen in the biomedical field.


Barkley's involvement om this was prominent, but he has serious conflicts of interest:

Quote:


Industry Support for LeFever’s Most Outspoken National Critic
Over the years, LeFever’s most outspoken national critic has been clinical psychologist Russell Barkley, Ph.D. Barkley is known in the field as a key opinion leader. An industry- sponsored ‘opinion leader’, or ‘key opinion leader’ refers to someone who is an active media user and who interprets the meaning of subject-specific information for the broader public. The pharmaceutical industry makes liberal use of key opinion leaders, and Barkley may be the best-known ADHD key opinion leader the industry has courted. Although such individuals can be patient advocates, they run the risk of becoming a marketing spokesperson for the industry—unwittingly or otherwise.

The use of key opinion leaders by pharmaceutical companies has been widely explored by ethicists and those critical of high use of various medications (including psychotropics), because they can potentially capture a large segment of the prescribing public.


Like many Key Opinion leaders Barkley has been found to derive a large proportion of his income from pharmaceutical companies:


Quote:
It is unclear how many people knew then (or realize now) the significance of the fact that a sizeable proportion of Barkley’s taxable income came from the pharmaceutical industry. Barkley’s own website once showed, for example, that approximately 8 % of his taxable income came from Eli Lilly alone. Eli Lilly manufactures Strattera, a commonly prescribed medication for ADHD. Other income categories that were explicitly tied to the pharmaceutical industry accounted for approximately 19 % of his income.


So there is a real risk of conflict of interest there.


The paper is very interesting and disturbing reading. Watson's work was stopped and that is a shame because any approach that adds to potential treatment options is always worthwhile.





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Old 08-28-18, 01:53 PM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunga Dorji View Post
This is of interest:
https://link.springer.com/content/pd...013-9244-x.pdf

Shooting the Messenger: The Case of ADHD Gretchen LeFever Watson • Andrea Powell Arcona •
David O. Antonuccio • David Healy



It describes what was happening- that Watson was involved in investigating exceptionally high rates of ADHD diagnosis, and in developing diversion programs with classroom based interventions altering discipline and teaching methods with good result.





This sort of thing absolutely does happen in the biomedical field.


Barkley's involvement om this was prominent, but he has serious conflicts of interest:




The use of key opinion leaders by pharmaceutical companies has been widely explored by ethicists and those critical of high use of various medications (including psychotropics), because they can potentially capture a large segment of the prescribing public.


Like many Key Opinion leaders Barkley has been found to derive a large proportion of his income from pharmaceutical companies:





So there is a real risk of conflict of interest there.


The paper is very interesting and disturbing reading. Watson's work was stopped and that is a shame because any approach that adds to potential treatment options is always worthwhile.





This same thing was discussed here some time in the past.

I remember a link saying that Barkley has always disclosed any payments
he gets from pharmaceutical companies for giving talks and such.

I don't know whether to search for that thread, as I recall it wasn't really such
a large amount of his income from this source.
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Old 08-28-18, 03:06 PM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
This same thing was discussed here some time in the past.

I remember a link saying that Barkley has always disclosed any payments
he gets from pharmaceutical companies for giving talks and such.

I don't know whether to search for that thread, as I recall it wasn't really such
a large amount of his income from this source.

At the time of the Watson affair he was getting at least 27% of his taxable income from Pharma,



Yes, this is s trend in medicine and politics- to allow yourself to be snagged by a big paying pharma, and the to declare the interest, thinking that the declaration protects you against claims of conflict of interest




He does some good work in the child rearing side, but his drug views remain tainted

As for the fake claim that Watsons research was unreliale- that was a true piece of *******ry, a really underhand trick of the sort the pharmaceutical industry specialise in. I would imagine an anonymous Pharma executive who sent the anonymous complaint against Watson, as Barkley would have been seen as too valuable asset to expose to such a high risk move
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Old 08-28-18, 10:20 PM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
This same thing was discussed here some time in the past.

I remember a link saying that Barkley has always disclosed any payments
he gets from pharmaceutical companies for giving talks and such.

I don't know whether to search for that thread, as I recall it wasn't really such
a large amount of his income from this source.

There is a good argument to be made that all such payments should be completely separated from the recipient so there is no chance of bias.


Asa GP I know exactly how this works-- you see a fair bit of the drug rep or whatever and they make themselves useful then the rep trades of their relationship and keeps pestering you with little bits of info carefully slanted to their ends.

The stakes are much higher in the Key Opinion Leader game, and particular KOLs in the area of Bipolar have been netting up to 250,000 a year on top of professorial salaries and clinical income.


This has all been well documented in a book called "Cracked. Why Psychiatry is Doing More Harm Than Good" (James Davies).


He details in one chapter the experience of Daniel Carlat, who was a young psychiatrist being groomed for one of these Key Opinion Leader roles. Carlat found that initially he was free to say what he liked- but he only got further offers when he said favorable things about the drug in question.
His observation was that the allure of that much money was so much that most doctors became financially dependent on it.


Its a good book and well worth the read, as is Jonathan Hari's Lost Connections.
Stimulants are for most ADHD individuals helpful, and if they are unsuitable it is easy to stop them without rebound reactions, however the odds are nowhere near as good for other psychotropics, and in any case Western Medicine uses far to many drugs given the complications- especially of polypharmacy.
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Old 08-29-18, 05:33 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

I think to a certain extent big pharma will be involved in order to account for drug research and testing.
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Old 08-29-18, 06:20 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

My issue with Barkley is not Barkley himself but that too many people think everything he says is the gospel truth and that he is infallible.

Just because he says something doesn't mean people shouldn't question it. But I guess that's always been the problem with the world. People believe everything they hear or read.

To quote The Who. "I read all my papers and smile at the sky oh I know that the hypnotised never lie... do ya?"
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Old 08-29-18, 11:42 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by tudorose View Post
My issue with Barkley is not Barkley himself but that too many people think everything he says is the gospel truth and that he is infallible.

Just because he says something doesn't mean people shouldn't question it. But I guess that's always been the problem with the world. People believe everything they hear or read.

To quote The Who. "I read all my papers and smile at the sky oh I know that the hypnotised never lie... do ya?"
Maybe some people do that.

I'm not one of them.

When I read something or view a video I am comparing what I read or hear
to my own experiences, and to other things I've read or heard.

No one person has all the answers, but some certainly have studied more
and have a better overall understanding.
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Old 08-30-18, 01:13 AM
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Re: Russell Barkley

Quote:
Originally Posted by tudorose View Post
My issue with Barkley is not Barkley himself but that too many people think everything he says is the gospel truth and that he is infallible.

Just because he says something doesn't mean people shouldn't question it. But I guess that's always been the problem with the world. People believe everything they hear or read.

To quote The Who. "I read all my papers and smile at the sky oh I know that the hypnotised never lie... do ya?"



He does have a very highly focussed view of the problem. It is a general problem in our highly specialised world.
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