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Old 02-23-12, 04:29 AM
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Unhappy In need of males perspective, I want to understand

In a world where we can email, txt, forum, blog etc etc is seems to me that face to face communication is at an all time low. I know it is in my world. It took me a week to finally decide to reach out on this topic, it is a sore sore area for me I guess. Communicating with the ADHD male. Apparently I don't ever make myself clear, so I will post a few questions hopefully one or two of you guys can understand my female language lol

The setting is in a long term relationship, both people having a form of adhd, both on meds ..if that helps.

Men, if something is truly bothering your s/o,spouse,gf ...something big, not being annoyed you left the car a mess ...How do you prefer she approach you to discuss the issue? Obviously snapping, or letting it build up until it is an explosion is not the answer. In MY recent experience coming right out and saying "Hey, my feelings really get hurt when you said/did______" (In my mind thinking this alerts you that well, I am hurt, what it was that hurt me ..not expecting an apology if you aren't sorry just an acknowledgement of the issue) doesn't work..instead of explaination, apology if warranted, or even it is what it is deal with it ...it goes like this "i only did/said because you did/said this/that i thought we were good, i didn't know we weren't. Thanks for telling me. I don't understand how you can blame me though"

ohhhh I hate that!! "I don't understand how this is my fault" WHEN/WHERE/HOW did I imply fault to anyone?!

oops, sorry ...back on track If I am blunt like I have been asked to be, I end up getting defensive behavior and often it becomes a battle of words and whit, lets see who can hold out the longest, or how long we can go before I end up in tears and he shuts down.

sucks. vicious cycle of going nowhere.

I honestly, sincerely, truly with all of my heart want to learn the language of men.

1)What is an acceptable way to approach you guys where you don't feel defensive, you don't feel like I am picking at every word, or searching for flaws..but hear my words for what they are ..??


2)What is it that make your defenses go up?

3)What is it that I (s/o,spouse,gf) does or says that makes you go from chill to angry in 1.2 seconds?

4)Is constantly responding to s/o hurts, questions, even insecurities with "it isn't my fault, why are you blaming me etc.." is that deflecting or do you really see the words as faulting?

5)Do you view your s/o's crying as an attempt to "make you feel bad"??
(I know some people can cry on que, I am not one of them. When I cry it is after nearly biting my lip off attempting not to cry because once I start those dang flood gates just won't close and it is an awful flood from the pit of my soul....so I avoid crying at all costs. Plus, it is not cute one bit, your face scrunches up, eyes swell up, get all red .....no)

I saw a post where you guys were stating struggles in your marriage. I was floored that I related to nearly everything you guys said you did to your s/os ..and yet how you admitted it, and were thankful they put up with it ....next question

6)Why is it not safe to admit wrong on male part? Do men view this as a sign of weakness?
(I view it as a strength ..your man enough to admit you did something, and smart enough to attempt at least not to repeat it or work start working on it. Kudos, hugs, love. No, you guys see it different ??)

I could go on for hours so I am going to post this and not even read it over or edit because I am already tempted to delete so here goes. Oh and I understand not every male here will relate, and it may seem to some I am being too spesific ...but these statements have applied in more than one relationship I've had with adhd men and I am desperate to understand. There is a small small thread left instead of a rope to hang onto ...it won't last much longer if it is even still there ....

ugh! (and no to my dear friend, rosetta stone did not have adhdmen as a language option..cute)
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Old 02-23-12, 05:57 PM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

There's no one answer. Alot depends on the culture your bloke belongs to. Some cultures are very macho orientated some are egalitarian.

much also depends on the dynamic of the relationship..... both now and in the past.

There's also the issue f triggering some deepseated stuff from the family/past relationships/ etc etc.

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Old 02-24-12, 12:20 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

Come on guys man-up!
Come on people as of 8:00 pm west coast time 100 people have viewed this thread and only me and kilted_scotsman have replyed!
We can do better than this for Piper.

If you were coming to me with a big problem this is what I would want. obviously life has no absolutes so this is how I am feeling about this at this moment. If at any time you notice your or his stress level rising excuse yourself or ask him if I would like to talk about this latter.

1) you need to approach me and tell me that you have something you want to talk about.

2) Tell me if it just happened or you have been thinking or working on it for a while (give amount of time and if you have or have not reached a conclusion)

3) Give me a brief outline of the problem then ask me how much detail I want. (Stop there, pause, and silently count to 5). If I haven’t responded ask me if I would like to think about it before we go into more detail.

4) On the net. There is a set of joke men’s rules one of them hits close home. Use your best judgment as to how blunt you need to be. Ask for what you want. Let us be clear on this one:
Subtle hints do not work!
Strong hints do not work!
Obvious hints do not work!
Just say it!

5) I get defensive when I feel I am dodging your emotions. I have problems with this one but I think I am close. The ladies of the world want us men to be calm, not aggressive or scary in our relationship. That should be unspoken but sadly it is not. What I would be asking of you is to come to me with a rational situation that we can talk about. Check your emotions at the door and I will try to do the same.

6) If at any time you feel your stress level or mine rising excuse yourself (take a time out). If you need to leave the room, get air state how long you will be gone. If I don’t act on my rising stress ask me if I would like to talk about this at another time. That gives me an out.

7) “What is it that I do or says that makes you go from chill to angry in 1.2 seconds?” I would have to say my number one is refusing to take responsibility for your part in a problem or situation.

8) Crying…..This is the many layered onion of emotions that requires carful dissection. As far as I can tell when one of the parties of the relationship has gotten to the point that there emotions has caused crying, real crying that is it is break time. Everyone to your corners. This is meaning to me the link of communication has broken down. It can be a divisive tool to be used inappropriately. I personally don’t possess that skill.

9) When men are secure in themselves they can admit to screwing up...because it takes a real man to admit his mistakes and move on. Few men are secure, thoughtful and mature enough to apologize and admit when they are wrong.

This took me way too long to get this far I hope it will be a catalyst for other guys to step up.
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Old 02-24-12, 02:00 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman View Post
There's no one answer. Alot depends on the culture your bloke belongs to. Some cultures are very macho orientated some are egalitarian.

much also depends on the dynamic of the relationship..... both now and in the past.

There's also the issue f triggering some deepseated stuff from the family/past relationships/ etc etc.

kilted

First of all, thank you very much for responding. I didn't think anyone would ..not on guy matters ..so thank you, I much appreciate it.

Second, your right..I didn't think of culture thing. Macho, to stereo type ..woman, pregnant and housewife, man work and as long as he provides for family his job is done. Not saying that is how all the men in this culture/background think...times change. It is how their grandmothers, and some parents thought though. I always end up with very macho, manly men. Never fails. Not that saying that is bad ..just is.

I get it on the deep stuff, their past etc ..I am asking though more on a basic adhd level. I got carried away in my post .. I do that often. I apologize. Not so personal was first intention. I failed there lol ..

I want to learn how to approach the adhd male and not alert defenses, missiles ready, walls up, anything but a white flag triggering responses that do everything except address the issue. Not even big issues.

This has been a theme in many relationships I have had with the adhd man. Maybe men in general? I am too tired to read Men are From Mars, Women from Venus ..

thought I would go directly to the source :-) I don't expect a miracle answer ..maybe just a east, west, north, or south to get me started in the right direction :-)
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Old 02-24-12, 02:16 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

I can't help but think that perhaps your man has other issues besides ADHD. I sense your man is always able to twist things around to make them your fault, and blames you for things that he does. It makes me wonder if he suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
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Old 02-24-12, 02:20 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

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I can't help but think that perhaps your man has other issues besides ADHD. I sense your man is always able to twist things around to make them your fault, and blames you for things that he does. It makes me wonder if he suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
My post actually takes things from several men in my past, include some from my present.

I can't argue with your response though. That is what I meant by getting carried away, I wanted my post to be more vague...bit more on an adhd or even just basic communication level.

That is what I get for multi tasking and posting lol



Grapie, I am still typing my response to you ! lol
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Old 02-24-12, 02:26 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

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Originally Posted by Piper30 View Post
My post actually takes things from several men in my past, include some from my present.

I can't argue with your response though. That is what I meant by getting carried away, I wanted my post to be more vague...bit more on an adhd or even just basic communication level.
Then perhaps the real issue is not your communication style, but perhaps your poor choice in men?
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Old 02-24-12, 02:37 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

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Then perhaps the real issue is not your communication style, but perhaps your poor choice in men?
Was that a positive reply? I must be missing something here.
Can you explain why you would make post like that?
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Old 02-24-12, 02:38 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

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Then perhaps the real issue is not your communication style, but perhaps your poor choice in men?
Whether my choices in men are good, bad, questionable, or right on target ..

The fact that I don't know how to communicate with men is still there. Wasn't a single man in my life until I was 16, then only dealt with him briefly ..I don't even communicate well with my step dad ..

and maybe my lack of communication skills has a lot to do with choosing the wrong man ..if I don't communicate well, I can't let them know what I expect, want, or who I am..and wouldn't get a good gadge for them in the same areas leaving for a partnership based more on the physical, and top layers of things ..ending in disaster.

So...again, best way to approach, talk to, or communicate with men? )
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Old 02-24-12, 02:40 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

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Was that a positive reply? I must be missing something here.
Can you explain why you would make post like that?
I suggesting that she may not have a communication problem and that she may simply date arseholes. Hence she's merely treating a symptom and not the cause.
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Old 02-24-12, 03:04 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

Quote:
"i only did/said because you did/said this/that i thought we were good, i didn't know we weren't. Thanks for telling me. I don't understand how you can blame me though"
I don't understand this quote very well. So I can't really see myself in such a scenario to tell you if I would say that or not.

Hmmm, I don't really remember saying things like that though.

Defensive behavior, why?





1)I feel if you ask me "Hey can I tell you something?" I go "Sure" "Well what you said hurt me _________" is fine as an approach to tell me something that upsets you. Of course, I'll go "Oh, sorry I did/said this because ____" Put in I made a joke about dog fights. She didn't like it because she really hates animal cruelty, yet I don't like animal cruelty either. I say "Well that's me and I thought it was funny, I'm not going to stop making jokes if it offends anyone".


2) As a man, I guess things like 'changing yourself for them' or something. I'm not going to change myself for you. Of course, I'd change parts of myself that you may see is bad, like having an disorganized life, but not something as little as my personality.


3)Nothing. Not for me anyways. I'm a very chill guy. Only people who CAN get me angry, are my family.

4)Can you please re-state this question? I don't get who is actually saying that. Sorry it wasn't clear to me. ;-;

5)
No. I understand that it's just her being upset, which is natural. Sometimes it can also be hormones, which obv, can be a bit annoying to deal with (since I'm a very objective guy), but I try to support her as much as I can when that situation arises.

I don't think you should avoid crying. ****, I wouldn't avoid crying if I had to. ;o

6)Maybe. I would admit if I was wrong, because I like to be right. You can say that... maybe a woman telling me what to do (changing personality) can be a bit, demoralizing. Rather, I wouldn't because of my pride.

(No I agree with this sentiment)

There. : D

I like Grape_Ninja's post. He is DEFF right about the hints. Jesus. At least if you want to give hints, make it seem visible to the eye. lol. I mean, I think I had this conversation with my girlfriend and our friend. i'm like "You can't just expect a dude to KNOW you like them by stating 'I'm with my friend and her bf... alone...'" They didn't understand my pov lol.

I guess you have to understand that we men are simple, we look at the obvious, we don't talk in code or nothing.

Anyways, I try to get an understanding basically. Me and my girlfriend have a good relationship. Sometimes we argue, but it's usually debates, not just arguments over silly things. Yet, we come to big disagreements, and she starts crying over that. I'm like "No, we are debating, you shouldn't be crying because of this" but she says she cries because she feels what she has said wasn't good enough for me. I again, like to be right, so I'm very picky.

Anyways, I wouldn't usually neglect 'blame' but I would make sure you backed it up! I don't really say "Oh wait are you blaming me?!?!?!" Because I don't really react in such ways, because again, I try to listen and get an understanding.

Finally, I think it really depends on the person you date.
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Old 02-24-12, 03:16 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

Now over 115 views ...I have great faith in the men of this forum. If too private for public, PM answers ...don't care really, this is a honest sincere attempt at learning something.
Thank you grape for responding, and for putting some thought into it. This is exactly what I was trying to ask for ..personally you mens responses to questions. Perfect, kudos, your the bestest.

"1) you need to approach me and tell me that you have something you want to talk about."
Doesn't this put you on edge? Wondering if it is bad or thinking "Oh great, another talk"?
"2) Tell me if it just happened or you have been thinking or working on it for a while (give amount of time and if you have or have not reached a conclusion)"
If I have had time two things come to mind for the man to be on defense asap "Not fair, you have had ___ amount of time to think about this and I have had none" "Why did you wait so long to tell me? That isn't fair to me, you have let this sit"
"3) Give me a brief outline of the problem then ask me how much detail I want. (Stop there, pause, and silently count to 5). If I haven’t responded ask me if I would like to think about it before we go into more detail. "
Here is my biggest problem. Going by responses I get, I NEVER (apparently) bring up issue in the correct way because the response NEVER has to do with what I feel this issue is. Example, I give outline of problem, and response I get is based off emotions the problem caused not the problem itself. If you can make sense of that.
"4) On the net. There is a set of joke men’s rules one of them hits close home. Use your best judgment as to how blunt you need to be. Ask for what you want. Let us be clear on this one:
Subtle hints do not work!
Strong hints do not work!
Obvious hints do not work!
Just say it!"
I am learning this!! Yes, I thought subtle hints, body language, changes to my regular routine were flashing lights something was wrong, off, needed addressing..nooooooo men do not pick up on these. I do not understand, but I accept. So blunt it is. But, blunt is what you ask for ....blunt is not always taken so well. I need the inbetween for blunt and blunt with sugar on top?
"5) I get defensive when I feel I am dodging your emotions. I have problems with this one but I think I am close. The ladies of the world want us men to be calm, not aggressive or scary in our relationship. That should be unspoken but sadly it is not. What I would be asking of you is to come to me with a rational situation that we can talk about. Check your emotions at the door and I will try to do the same. "
Why dodge female's emotions? Don't men get this makes for longer fight and unhappy home?
"6) If at any time you feel your stress level or mine rising excuse yourself (take a time out). If you need to leave the room, get air state how long you will be gone. If I don’t act on my rising stress ask me if I would like to talk about this at another time. That gives me an out."
My one problem with this, often time outs end up in texting for three hours ...I do not wish to live my relationships throug text, or email. This has happened both with s/o and my brother. It is annoying. Face to face...human contact. Where did it go? If you can text me why can't you speak to me about samething? I realize the value of emailing if you think you are never heard, or if face to face has gotten so stressful that is the only productive way to approach things, not for everyday issues though.
"7) “What is it that I do or says that makes you go from chill to angry in 1.2 seconds?” I would have to say my number one is refusing to take responsibility for your part in a problem or situation."
What is second? I always admit my wrong, I own it, wear it as a shirt with a big "Im working on this, I acknowlede it, I apologize for it" tshirt.
"8) Crying…..This is the many layered onion of emotions that requires carful dissection. As far as I can tell when one of the parties of the relationship has gotten to the point that there emotions has caused crying, real crying that is it is break time. Everyone to your corners. This is meaning to me the link of communication has broken down. It can be a divisive tool to be used inappropriately. I personally don’t possess that skill."
Ok, so either cry..and time out ...wipe your tears, vaseline your face and go for round two?
"9) When men are secure in themselves they can admit to screwing up...because it takes a real man to admit his mistakes and move on. Few men are secure, thoughtful and mature enough to apologize and admit when they are wrong."

Where are the secure men? Where did you hide them grape? lol Seriously, why do you think it took so long to reach that point?

"This took me way too long to get this far I hope it will be a catalyst for other guys to step up."

I hoped so too, your response was what I was looking for. I am hoping different time zones is the reason this hasn't been the case yet )
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Old 02-24-12, 05:14 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

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Originally Posted by Ranmaru View Post
I don't understand this quote very well. So I can't really see myself in such a scenario to tell you if I would say that or not.

Hmmm, I don't really remember saying things like that though.

Defensive behavior, why?
Sorry, there is an example of how I do not explain very well lol Ok
me:Honey, there is something I wanted to talk to you about, I have been really bothered by our conversation the other day. It really got me down when you said I didn't care about what you were going through. I don't want you thinking like that, i thought my actions were showing you that.
Him:So you have been down this whole time? I thought we were ok? I only said you didn't care because you told me I didn't care you were sick(four months ago)and I only even brought it up because you seemed upset we were even talking about the bs i am going through (i was upset because he had to go through it)..well thanks for letting me know we aren't good, now at least i know not to be happy.
Quote:
1)I feel if you ask me "Hey can I tell you something?" I go "Sure" "Well what you said hurt me _________" is fine as an approach to tell me something that upsets you. Of course, I'll go "Oh, sorry I did/said this because ____" Put in I made a joke about dog fights. She didn't like it because she really hates animal cruelty, yet I don't like animal cruelty either. I say "Well that's me and I thought it was funny, I'm not going to stop making jokes if it offends anyone".
Ok, fair enough and makes sense..using dog joke as example but insert whatever her hurt is ..does it get to you or affect you she is bothered by your animal cruelty jokes ? I guess, does it cross your mind she could be hurt more than you think, or do you care? (care as a male, not speaking on your character at all)
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2) As a man, I guess things like 'changing yourself for them' or something. I'm not going to change myself for you. Of course, I'd change parts of myself that you may see is bad, like having an disorganized life, but not something as little as my personality.
I agree to a certain extent on not changing for anyone else. On the other hand I believe as we grow older we all "live and learn" especially those of us living with ADHD nobody masters it or life right off the bat. So if she brings up changing ..say not being disorganized but maybe hmm ok, something I brought up to an ex. He was quite harsh in the way he spoke to his sisters, more like an over bearing father. It was out of love, I suggested after they complained to me ..that maybe he approach them about things they were doing in a calmer manner. Maybe they would feel safer to talk to him about things. He got very defensive and shut down.
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3)Nothing. Not for me anyways. I'm a very chill guy. Only people who CAN get me angry, are my family.
Out of curiousity does that in itself cause you issues? The female not understanding your lack of anger when/where she thinks it might be normal to be angry?
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4)Can you please re-state this question? I don't get who is actually saying that. Sorry it wasn't clear to me. ;-;
As simple as I can think to put it.
You:whats wrong?
Me:down..a lot going on i guess. (me being down either coming from state of our relationship OR outside crap..life)
You:well i haven't done anything wrong, it isn't my fault.
I don't get this ..me never saying it was anyones fault ?? Grape I think hit it right on, dodging dealing with female emotions. I don't understand why dealing with a loved ones emotions is so bad though. Then again I am female lol
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5)No. I understand that it's just her being upset, which is natural. Sometimes it can also be hormones, which obv, can be a bit annoying to deal with (since I'm a very objective guy), but I try to support her as much as I can when that situation arises.
It is nice to meet you!! I have never met a male who did not run as if they were in the olympics when a female was crying. Or at least got very uncomfortable if not upset.
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6)Maybe. I would admit if I was wrong, because I like to be right. You can say that... maybe a woman telling me what to do (changing personality) can be a bit, demoralizing. Rather, I wouldn't because of my pride.
This response hit closest to home for me. I have heard the word pride, more than a few times. I have been told some actions (I NEVER would have guessed) on my end have been demeaning to the male. I think not on a common sense basic level, but more intricate level what is demoralizing to man versus woman is quite different.
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I think I had this conversation with my girlfriend and our friend. i'm like "You can't just expect a dude to KNOW you like them by stating 'I'm with my friend and her bf... alone...'" They didn't understand my pov lol.
I can't help but laugh...."alone" to me would totally mean "wish you were here" hahahaha I get it
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I guess you have to understand that we men are simple, we look at the obvious, we don't talk in code or nothing.
For being simple you guys sure are hard to understand LOL
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Anyways, I try to get an understanding basically. Me and my girlfriend have a good relationship. Sometimes we argue, but it's usually debates, not just arguments over silly things. Yet, we come to big disagreements, and she starts crying over that. I'm like "No, we are debating, you shouldn't be crying because of this" but she says she cries because she feels what she has said wasn't good enough for me. I again, like to be right, so I'm very picky.
I have been told "You shouldn't be crying right now, it makes no sense" Just because it doesn't make sense to the person not crying doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense to the one crying. Assuming they are not crying to make you feel bad, or on purpose (still don't know how to do that) then if the person is crying wouldn't one understand that it isn't something they WANT to be doing, the tears came from emotional frustration/hurt/feelings that were apparently a bit too much to handle?
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Anyways, I wouldn't usually neglect 'blame' but I would make sure you backed it up! I don't really say "Oh wait are you blaming me?!?!?!" Because I don't really react in such ways, because again, I try to listen and get an understanding.
Like Grape said it takes a secure man to admit when he has done wrong, accept it, make it right, and move on ...kudos
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Finally, I think it really depends on the person you date.
I absolutely do agree when speaking on relationship basis. I have spent a lot of time wondering why it is that out of the men I have dated long term and short, even been married to over 50% were adhd of some form or another ...I found that interesting.

Ok it has taken me an hour and a half to respond to you lol Thank you for taking the time to respond. I wish my initial post had been more research like of a post, not so personal...again, multi tasking while posting no good lol I appreciate your time!!
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uhmm..err...I keep wondering what to put here but I forgot who I was replying to ..???
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  #14  
Old 02-24-12, 05:14 AM
kilted_scotsman kilted_scotsman is offline
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

If you have communication issues with guys.... it's probably not just the big issues that are involved.... thing sometimes only become big because they weren't mentioned when they were small issues.

From the posts it would seem there is a deeper issue.... one that might take a bit of work to unpack and overcome.

Guys are human beings... some are nice some are nasty most are just a bit mixed up.... just like women, there is no reason to communicate with them any differently.

If here is some kind of interrupt happening in communication just because the human you are communication with is of a different sex (and I specificallyinclude alternative sexualities in this) then one has to look inside oneself to see what societal/parental/peer pressure/fear is present ad possibly why.

Usually it involves some kind of fear... which is understandable in women when men are often seen as dangerous, unpredictable and sex-obsessed.... however the same applies to guys who are homophobic....what makes them so scared of a gay man?? particularly when homophobia in males is often linked with mysogny and strong male/male group bonding.....

Difficulties with communication between sexes is often connected with sexual fears. If communication with other sexes is generally OK outside a relationship but communication with a partner is problematic a myriad other factors may be in play.

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Old 02-24-12, 09:59 AM
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Re: In need of males perspective, I want to understand

Personally, as a man, I think its normal for a woman to bite my head off for the stupid or inconsiderate things i may do. The thing i cant stand is brooding/holding grudges and permanently labeling me "XXXX" based on the time i did this or that.
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